Apple TV 4K does not support 24.000fps playback

[frocco]

Should I cancel my Apple TV order and buy a Shield instead?

 

[andrewstirling]

Should I cancel my Apple TV order and buy a Shield instead?

That really depends on what you intend to use it for? The shield TV isn’t perfect either. If it’s streaming local media you might be better looking at a Vero 4k.

 

[2010mini]

Not with Apple TV they haven’t. It’s hardly been a success to date has it? It’s been massively outsold by devices by amazon and roku. In my opinion this is because Apple have charged more for something which is blatantly an inferior product. There hasn’t been a single compelling reason to go for the Apple TV over its competitors to date. Now they’ve maybe got something in that they’re giving people cheap 4k media but up until last month all I’ve been hearing is that ‘People aren’t bothered about 4k’. Now I’m supposed to believe that ‘people are bothered enough about 4k to pay more than double the price for an Apple TV but....people aren’t bothered that it’ll look like **** on their TVs’

And while we’re at it, do you think that apple’s competitors will continue to keep selling 4k media at their inflated prices. And when the inevitable price drop happens....why should people buy an Apple TV with its failure to output films in native frame rate, native resolution and inability to play the vast majority of sound formats which have been standard for the past 10 or so years.

The first 3 Apple TVs has no advertisements whatsoever. It was a hobby that was buried deep in the iPod section of Apple’s website. It was also largely ignored by Steve Jobs and Tim Cook until recent history. So of course other devices had better market share. And only Cinephiles and techies (like you and I) care about frame rates or true 4K. The market out there buys 4k TVs because the manufacturers pushed it hard on the market. And end up watching 720i content on it.

You realize the argument you are making about the ATV is the same one made on this forum of all Apple’s devices. And yet they sell displays being “inferior” if the market truely cares why is Apple selling so much product???

 

[frocco]

That really depends on what you intend to use it for? The shield TV isn’t perfect either. If it’s streaming local media you might be better looking at a Vero 4k.

Thanks, I do not yet have a 4k TV, so the benefits may not be worth it for me.

 

[xsmett]

The reason why I bought the atv 4k is my big iTunes collection and the curiousity how good or not good the iTunes 4k videos with HDR/Dolby Vision will look like on my Oled Screen.

Because of the missing 24fps and the problems that with 4k dolby vision with 60hz there is a big chance that I have to return the atv 4k.

Instead of creating faqs how people have to manually change the settings to get dolby vision work, they just should make an auto refresh framereate with 24fps available. Cant say how much im pissed that again apple is ignoring that.

 

[andrewstirling]

The first 3 Apple TVs has no advertisements whatsoever. It was a hobby that was buried deep in the iPod section of Apple’s website. It was also largely ignored by Steve Jobs and Tim Cook until recent history. So of course other devices had better market share. And only Cinephiles and techies (like you and I) care about frame rates or true 4K. The market out there buys 4k TVs because the manufacturers pushed it hard on the market. And end up watching 720i content on it.

You realize the argument you are making about the ATV is the same one made on this forum of all Apple’s devices. And yet they sell displays being “inferior” if the market truely cares why is Apple selling so much product???

I do realise this. I’ll say again though that they are not selling Apple TVs in any quantity. They surely have to look at why this is. And why they’re being outstripped by their competitors.

It’s also worth pointing out that apple’s sales are largely in decline across the board. Admittedly the iPad got a small boost last quarter due to the new releases and in fairness it’s probably the one category that they’re streets ahead of their competitors. It’ll be interesting to see how the iPhone X sells.

 

[cube]

I was thinking about buying a used 103D, but now I am doubting even more because its Netflix app cannot play in 24p.

 

[ActionableMango]

Does the general tv watching public even care about 24fps?? I am talking about the bulk of the population that buys this stuff.

You are absolutely right. Most definitely don't know and hence don't care.

I care, and many other people do too. All we are asking for is that content be played back at its correct frame rate instead of an incorrect frame rate. It can't be hard or expensive--cheaper boxes have been doing it for many years.

Anyone who does care, like me, won't be buying the ATV4K until the problem is fixed.

why then would any company include stuff they don’t care about?

Apple has included Hybrid Log Gamma. Does the bulk of the population care about that? The amount of content in 24p, basically every movie, is enormous. The amount of content in HLG doesn't amount to a mouse fart.

 

[pdmpolishing]

I would go for the 2017 model as it allows passthrough of Dolby Atmos

I was really hoping Apple Tv would allow 24Hz and True HD, Atmos etc, Ive alway liked the interface of ATV ever since version 1. This time I didn't order an ATV because of these missing features, I feel this version of ATV should have been the ATV 4. I went ahead and ordered an Nvidia Shield, it did take me a little while to get used to it but now I'm quite impressed. I love the fact that it allows passthrough of Dolby True HD Atmos, DTM-MA and automatically sets the refresh rate once setup in SPMC and Plex. Having the correct sound formats passthrough to your Home Theatre system really makes a vast difference to the enjoyment of watching movies.

 

[Krevnik]

Yes it does. RC on does a proper 5:5 pulldown on all 24hz material. When turned off the tv performs 3:2 on all 24hz material. You must have RC on for 24hz for correct cadence.

So, because this claim blew my mind, I had to go double check, and it turns out you are right. LG for some braindead reason, made 2:2/5:5/10:10 pulldown an option. Jebus. Meanwhile, other companies just do it when fed a 24p source and call it a day.

Why the hell LG even allows you to have 3:2 pulldown on a pure 24p source boggles my mind. But, you are actually right here.

Anyone who does care, like me, won't be buying the ATV4K until the problem is fixed.

At this rate, with 5 iterations over 10 years on the Apple TV, I don't think Apple's interest is in providing 24p. 10 years without the feature so far. Sucks. But it's also become such a common problem that TV manufacturers are putting processing power into fixing the 3:2 pulldown, with some decent success.

I do care, but at this point, it's a mix of: either I skip out on some of the more useful streaming boxes in the market (Apple TV, Fire Stick, Roku, etc), or I use those streaming boxes as a supplement to my BD player. Unfortunately, I'm not quite willing to skip out on the market right now.

Apple has included Hybrid Log Gamma. Does the bulk of the population care about that? The amount of content in 24p, basically every movie, is enormous. The amount of content in HLG doesn't amount to a mouse fart.

Except, HLG is the mechanism for providing broadcast (i.e. Cable/Sat/OTA) HDR. If you are going to support HDR, and some of your more popular apps are ways to access broadcast content in some manner, HLG should be on the menu, IMO. It's one of those things where it's cheap to do while implementing support for HDR10, and you aren't going to prevent HLG from hitting the market eventually.

 

[andrewstirling]

So, because this claim blew my mind, I had to go double check, and it turns out you are right. LG for some braindead reason, made 2:2/5:5/10:10 pulldown an option. Jebus. Meanwhile, other companies just do it when fed a 24p source and call it a day.

Why the hell LG even allows you to have 3:2 pulldown on a pure 24p source boggles my mind. But, you are actually right here.



At this rate, with 5 iterations over 10 years on the Apple TV, I don't think Apple's interest is in providing 24p. 10 years without the feature so far. Sucks. But it's also become such a common problem that TV manufacturers are putting processing power into fixing the 3:2 pulldown, with some decent success.

I do care, but at this point, it's a mix of: either I skip out on some of the more useful streaming boxes in the market (Apple TV, Fire Stick, Roku, etc), or I use those streaming boxes as a supplement to my BD player. Unfortunately, I'm not quite willing to skip out on the market right now.

Just use your TVs in built apps. Netflix certainly plays at native frame rate on my LG OLED and the Netflix interface is identical to that on the 4th gen Apple TV.

I’ve bought a Vero 4K to play my local media and I might buy an Apple TV for the frighteningly cheap 4k content. I’ll wait and get some feedback on the quality first though.

 

[Rigby]

Apple has included Hybrid Log Gamma. Does the bulk of the population care about that? The amount of content in 24p, basically every movie, is enormous. The amount of content in HLG doesn't amount to a mouse fart.

The significance of HLG is that it does not require metadata, which makes it suitable for live production pipelines (it's impractical to use HDR10 or DV for live broadcasts). So it would be a smart choice for Apple to support this. But has it been confirmed that the ATV4K actually supports HLG? It would require HDMI 2.0b, while Apple's specs say the ATV4K only supports 2.0a.

 

[Krevnik]

Just use your TVs in built apps. Netflix certainly plays at native frame rate on my LG OLED and the Netflix interface is identical to that on the 4th gen Apple TV.

Behavior and performance of Smart TV apps tends to range from "acceptable, if ARC cooperates" to "trash fire". LG is in the former group. But because of the various pitfalls, it's not quite as easy as you make it out to get a working setup with the built-in stuff. Especially around audio, as that and motion processing were two reasons I passed on an LG OLED myself.

 

[ActionableMango]

But has it been confirmed that the ATV4K actually supports HLG?

That's a very good point, I don't know. HLG was found in the HomePod firmware leak along with Dolby Vision and HDR10, but that doesn't mean it was implemented in the release product. It might just be placeholder code for future updates or products, or it might even be a dead end.

 

[bluraycinema]

Nvidia Shield does

And Xbox and Fire TV and WDTV

 

[ActionableMango]

Especially around audio, as that and motion processing were two reasons I passed on an LG OLED myself.

I love the PQ on my LG. But the motion processing... ugh.

 

[blackberrycubed]

do we know the reason why 24hz output was left out ? like the official reasoning ?

 

[andrewstirling]

Behavior and performance of Smart TV apps tends to range from "acceptable, if ARC cooperates" to "trash fire". LG is in the former group. But because of the various pitfalls, it's not quite as easy as you make it out to get a working setup with the built-in stuff. Especially around audio, as that and motion processing were two reasons I passed on an LG OLED myself.

Ugh. I despise motion processing. The in built apps are fantastic for me. They’ve relegated my atv 4 to an Apple Music player.

 

[andrewstirling]

do we know the reason why 24hz output was left out ? like the official reasoning ?

Well they haven’t communicated any reason for its omission on earlier versions. It’s definitely not content related as iTunes films are all encoded at 24fps

 

[Cryates]

Am I missing something here? Hz is the refresh rate of a display, not the FPS.

 

[andrewstirling]

Am I missing something here? Hz is the refresh rate of a display, not the FPS.

That’s been covered earlier in the discussion. The Apple TV outputs at 60hz, 30hz or 25hz but doesn’t output at 24hz.

Films are encoded at 24fps (approx) which doesn’t fit neatly into any of the output frequencies of the Apple TV so you end up with judder.

For devices that do output at 24hz then the tv is likely to multiply this up to a higher figure (eg. 72hz) so it can accurately output at 24fps. But using the term 24hz for the ‘output’ of a media player seems reasonable to me.

 

[martinm0]

I just got my ATV4k delivered and I'm seeing in the Video Settings->Other Formats a listing of 4k HDR at 30Hz, 25Hz, and 24Hz. I have not read through this thread to see if I'm covering something someone has already mentioned, but just wanted to offer. Also have no idea if these are native or going through conversions.

 

[Cryates]

Welp

 

[Agent2015]

I just got my ATV4k delivered and I'm seeing in the Video Settings->Other Formats a listing of 4k HDR at 30Hz, 25Hz, and 24Hz. I have not read through this thread to see if I'm covering something someone has already mentioned, but just wanted to offer. Also have no idea if these are native or going through conversions.

Can't wait to see what the the naysayers have to say to this observation!

 

[andrewstirling]

That would make me incredibly happy!!!