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jonnyb098

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2010
4,061
5,770
Michigan
Unless someone worked at a place that provided lunches every day, it is absolutely cheaper when at home.


You sound envious or jealous of people who make a lot of money and work from wherever they want. There are some jobs that are hard to do remotely, but software is not one of them.
First , most adults know how to pack a lunch...

Second, as a remote worker myself, I’m well aware of what it means. But I’m not part of multi-trillion dollar company that sells billions of products. It’s key they get things right. And the last couple years is painfully obvious there are still obstacles from whatever remote work is being done especially on the software side.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,832
6,762
And the last couple years is painfully obvious there are still obstacles from whatever remote work is being done.
Where is the proof? People keep saying this, but they have yet to provide proof. Do you remember Snow Leopard deleting all the user files? I do, it happened to me. That is the point where I stopped putting any files on my internal drive and always use external drives now. How about Catalina causing kernel panics 5 times a day for an iMac using all Apple accessories? It happened to me, Apple confirmed it was an operating system issue and told me it would be resolved eventually, so I downgraded to Mojave. How about High Sierra allowing full admin access without a password? How about "You are holding it wrong" iPhone 4?


How about Apple's treatment of the pro market since the crap 2013 trash can Mac Pro?

I can keep going on and on and on about previous bugs in macOS. People are really acting like it was all sunshine and rainbows and 100% bug free pre-COVID.
 

jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,513
6,214
Oklahoma
To all those talking about “saving money” working from home. Did you also forget you have to buy more of EVERYTHING? Water, electricity, heat, toilet paper, etc etc etc. The money saved on gas is damn near offset by all the other consumables you have to use more of since the company isnt footing those bills.
I have an abnormally short commute to work (about 8–10 minutes one way) and my assessment is that it’s likely a wash for me based on the other expenses listed. If someone’s spending an hour or more in their car every day (the pre-COVID average was about an hour), I can definitely see clear cost savings to working from home, not just from fuel but also car upkeep over time.
 

jonnyb098

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2010
4,061
5,770
Michigan
Where is the proof? People keep saying this, but they have yet to provide proof. Do you remember Snow Leopard deleting all the user files? I do, it happened to me. That is the point where I stopped putting any files on my internal drive and always use external drives now. How about Catalina causing kernel panics 5 times a day for an iMac using all Apple accessories? It happened to me, Apple confirmed it was an operating system issue and told me it would be resolved eventually, so I downgraded to Mojave. How about High Sierra allowing full admin access without a password? How about "You are holding it wrong" iPhone 4?

I can keep going on and on and on about previous bugs in macOS. People are really acting like it was all sunshine and rainbows and 100% bug free pre-COVID.
I’ll give just a couple of big ones. The iOS 13 rollout was staggered and a nutorious mess. Also bricked HomePods, which was a newer product at the time. There was also an iPad OS bug that was massive in regard to safari memory leaks not even keep a single tab open in 13.1. There was also that fun bug where messages would appear out of order that plagued nearly everyone too in iOS 13. iOS 14 brought the messages keyboard bug where you couldn’t type for up to 10 seconds when launching the app (everyone I know had this problem randomly and was massive on apples own forums). iOS 15 seems to be getting both more and less stable with each release now 6 months in, one of which is sfari tab groups crashing in iPad OS 15.4 (I recently called apple and they said they are aware of the issue and a few of the advisors I spoke with were shocked at how big of a bug that is).

All of these bugs were acknowledged by apple at some point and fixed or in progress of fixing. So no its not just “me” or “people”. The fact is pure and simple that Apples software testing or QA is just plain bad in recent years.
 
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jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,513
6,214
Oklahoma
First , most adults know how to pack a lunch...

Second, as a remote worker myself, I’m well aware of what it means. But I’m not part of multi-trillion dollar company that sells billions of products. It’s key they get things right. And the last couple years is painfully obvious there are still obstacles from whatever remote work is being done especially on the software side.
I’m sure that Apple is well aware of its software quality bottlenecks, and if it wanted to require workers to come back sooner to that end, they would have done exactly that.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,832
6,762
I’ll give just a couple of big ones. The iOS 13 rollout was staggered and a nutorious mess. Also bricked HomePods, which was a newer product at the time. There was also an iPad OS bug that was massive in regard to safari memory leaks not even keep a single tab open in 13.1. There was also that fun bug where messages would appear out of order that plagued nearly everyone too in iOS 13. iOS 14 brought the messages keyboard bug where you couldn’t type for up to 10 seconds when launching the app (everyone I know had this problem randomly and was massive on apples own forums). iOS 15 seems to be getting both more and less stable with each release now 6 months in, one of which is sfari tab groups crashing in iPad OS 15.4 (I recently called apple and they said they are aware of the issue and a few of the advisors I spoke with were shocked at how big of a bug that is).

All of these bugs were acknowledged by apple at some point and fixed or in progress of fixing. So no its not just “me” or “people”.
I asked for the proof that it is a direct result of working from home. You also haven't acknowledged the fact that Apple does have some India software developers and fully remote positions even 5 years ago.
 

jonnyb098

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2010
4,061
5,770
Michigan
I have an abnormally short commute to work (about 8–10 minutes one way) and my assessment is that it’s likely a wash for me based on the other expenses listed. If someone’s spending an hour or more in their car every day (the pre-COVID average was about an hour), I can definitely see clear cost savings to working from home, not just from fuel but also car upkeep over time.
Yeah that makes some sense. Except when you take into account most people in America have an AVERAGE of $500 car payment every month. Now being spent on a car that barely moves or being used. But thats a whole other ball of ridiculousness. :p
 

macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,199
19,853
All their software got super buggy while they were home half-a$$ working, so I’m glad they are back at the office. Now they need to squash a record number of bugs or find a new job…
We work from home professionals work our asses off. I work way harder working remotely than I ever did before. As a matter of fact it can be kind of annoying at times because people assume you're available around the clock. The lines between home and work often blur. That being said, not having to drive in traffic (especially with current prices) + a four tens work week so I'm off on Friday + no random office friends randomly stopping by to chitchat and distract me definitely makes it worthwhile. But don't let those benefits confuse you, it is definitely hard work happening.
 

macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,199
19,853
Many people going back to the office are remembering how much they hate it. I've seen story after story about companies scooping up these employees with remote working opportunities. It's great rolling out of bed and going straight to work. Why would someone want to spend two unpaid hours per day driving when they can spend that time with their children or doing a hobby they enjoy or hanging out with friends?
 

macsound1

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2007
825
854
SF Bay Area
I’m sure that Apple is well aware of its software quality bottlenecks, and if it wanted to require workers to come back sooner to that end, they would have done exactly that.
I mean, there's more lawyers, marketing, designers, project managers, HR, QA, education, cyber security, and admin roles at Apple than software developers.
None of those employees need to work in person either.
Hardware + software collab. Sure. But that's a department unto itself.
 
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4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
Forcing your employees to return after they agreed to work from home for two years is a great way to tell them they are "right down the middle, number one."
 

Kierkegaarden

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2018
2,392
4,056
USA
Is there any data on whether this policy has led to an increase in turnover at Apple?
No — only reports from Dailymail and NY Daily News, which gives you an idea of the credibility of them. The whole thing was overblown.

If Apple wanted (or wants) to hire more remote workers, they can do so from anywhere in the world, for a lot less.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
No — only reports from Dailymail and NY Daily News, which gives you an idea of the credibility of them. The whole thing was overblown.

If Apple wanted (or wants) to hire more remote workers, they can do so from anywhere in the world, for a lot less.
Terminating someone because they refuse to work in an office should be treated like they were fired for their age, gender, religion, or race.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
To all those talking about “saving money” working from home. Did you also forget you have to buy more of EVERYTHING? Water, electricity, heat, toilet paper, etc etc etc. The money saved on gas is damn near offset by all the other consumables you have to use more of since the company isnt footing those bills.
Do you think people turn off their power and HVAC when they leave for work? Do you think people who are at home take more showers? It's not that you even use less of these things. They are exactly the same if you are home vs out of the house.

Going to an office where you can't control the temperature, and select the amenities just to be less productive, less happy, and less safe is the type of thing I expect out of a federally elected official. Random people on the internet have better sense than that.

Considering theres about a dozen things wrong with your entire post I’ll keep it simple.…Its beyond unfortunate that you’re still that terrified.
We just spent trillions teaching people to make smart decisions and be safe. Now you want to confuse them by claiming they should engage in risky behavior cause it looks uncool? Seriously? Employers owe their employees the choice for agreeing to work from home. If they don't like it they should have gone out of business.
 

KevinN206

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2009
481
390
Where is the proof? People keep saying this, but they have yet to provide proof. Do you remember Snow Leopard deleting all the user files? I do, it happened to me. That is the point where I stopped putting any files on my internal drive and always use external drives now. How about Catalina causing kernel panics 5 times a day for an iMac using all Apple accessories? It happened to me, Apple confirmed it was an operating system issue and told me it would be resolved eventually, so I downgraded to Mojave. How about High Sierra allowing full admin access without a password? How about "You are holding it wrong" iPhone 4?


How about Apple's treatment of the pro market since the crap 2013 trash can Mac Pro?

I can keep going on and on and on about previous bugs in macOS. People are really acting like it was all sunshine and rainbows and 100% bug free pre-COVID.
It's called recency bias. They only remember issues in the last 1-2 years and attributing all of that to WFH.
 

jonnyb098

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2010
4,061
5,770
Michigan
Do you think people turn off their power and HVAC when they leave for work? Do you think people who are at home take more showers? It's not that you even use less of these things. They are exactly the same if you are home vs out of the house.

Going to an office where you can't control the temperature, and select the amenities just to be less productive, less happy, and less safe is the type of thing I expect out of a federally elected official. Random people on the internet have better sense than that.


We just spent trillions teaching people to make smart decisions and be safe. Now you want to confuse them by claiming they should engage in risky behavior cause it looks uncool? Seriously? Employers owe their employees the choice for agreeing to work from home. If they don't like it they should have gone out of business.
The fact you claim no one uses more power or water when at home says it all in regard to any rational thought. We spent trillions brainwashing people and yes, now i expect them to think rationally again. Do you have any idea whats going on in Shanghai right now? People are starving, being pad locked inside and being told over loud speakers to “control their urges for freedom”.

My apologies pandemic hysteria scares me about 1000x more than the virus.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
The fact you claim no one uses more power or water when at home says it all in regard to any rational thought. We spent trillions brainwashing people and yes, now i expect them to think rationally again. Do you have any idea whats going on in Shanghai right now? People are starving, being pad locked inside and being told over loud speakers to “control their urges for freedom”.

My apologies pandemic hysteria scares me about 1000x more than the virus.
Well keep that to yourself because it’s not cool to hurt people for the lolz.
 
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