Apple's Director of Machine Learning Resigns Due to Return to Office Work

[dysamoria]

You do realise that Ian Goodfellow and most of his team had joined the Apple team more than 4 years ago? At that time office presence was mandatory, for him as well as for his team. I do get that there is a disagreement between Apple and some employees on the efficiency. But eventually it's up to the contact they signed. Ian simply quit, as he appears to disagree with the contract he and his team signed. This is the appropriate reaction, and I agree that this has nothing to do with entitled. Love it, change it, or leave it...

👍🏽

What I dislike is the whole discussion and complaining about the situation and making it such a public topic. Protest letters etc.

How else are workers to change a working situation they do not like, if they otherwise would like to continue doing the same work at the same company? There's no union to negotiate with management.

I definitely perceive this as entitled.

Why?

I know how it is to run a distributed remote team, and while it is doable and works with some very senior guys, it's also quite a nightmare at times!

Okay, but this isn't YOUR team.

I think the suggestion from Apple is quite forthcoming in that regards!

Possibly. I have not really weighed in on Apple's terms other than feeling that they're pushing too far too fast, and I think it's because of their insane main campus being largely empty and having spent insane money on it. I do not buy into PR babble from any corporation. After my life experiences, I will take employee commentary en mass over management or HR statements.

Simply refusing to go back to office is quite a WTF moment for me.

I am not one of those people rejecting returning to Apple's offices. I am not going to judge them over a situation I am not in. I DO have quite a lot of reaction to people who WILL judge them for it, though.

 

[dysamoria]

I don't want to "simp" for anyone. But I am an adult with a family and mortgage. I have some inclination of how the real world works and sadly, many people on this forum just don't get it. Lol "simp for corporations!" "need to stick it to the man!" lol

So you're projecting your life parameters onto the Apple employees? Who's to say YOUR world is THE real world?

 

[dysamoria]

I have a cushy job that is remote if I want.

I generally prefer my office in the city, so for me, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't really care about this individual, either.

What I am mocking are the childish Apple employees banging their wooden spoons on their highchairs and demanding to work from home.

This guy's actions will embolden that childish behavior, but here we are.

Nothing you've said here explains why you have decided to characterize Apple employees as children. Your language creates an "us vs them" scenario, and you seem to be putting yourself in Apple's position, against their employees. Why?

 

[dysamoria]

Nobody posts when things work well. Otherwise we would have 10 times the amount of threads and posts about “yep everything good here”. Look on any forum, every product is an absolute disaster if you base number of forum complaints.

Sometimes that's what it seems like: every tech product is an absolute disaster. I'm not saying it's because of forums. I'm saying it's because everything IS ACTUALLY quite broken. Our devices do NOT behave in a deterministic manner. It's the case across the whole industry.

 

[dysamoria]

But… he could have involvement with broken iOS features. You don’t know that either. So what makes you right?

"You don't know either" is no excuse for casting blame without knowledge.

 

[dysamoria]

I don’t need to know about machine learning. I am not employed as such by a tech giant. All I know is Siri has been awful the past year and Siri uses machine learning. Most of iOS 15 has been a disaster for that matter. It’s not my business to know exactly who does what at Apple but I’ll criticize every single one of them that hasn’t released a product that works as advertised. Probably because of working from home.

It's not your business to know exactly who does what at Apple, but that ALSO makes it irrational for you to assume someone is responsible for whatever your gripe is.

 

[pshufd]

It's not your business to know exactly who does what at Apple, but that ALSO makes it irrational for you to assume someone is responsible for whatever your gripe is.

It's like blaming the person at your local store for a manufacturing defect for your device.

 

[dysamoria]

Settle down a bit. You’re getting worked up over nothing. It’s the internet. This place is filled with crazy opinions, especially when they’re not yours, ya know? Also, I’m sorry but I didn’t realize that being an expert in GAN and Machine Learning was a prerequisite to joining MacRumors so my bad for that. I’ll just go ahead and rescind my membership. You can always block me too. I mean, I’ll probably be upset for a few days but time will eventually heal.

Heads up, this was a story reported by every tech news outlet and then some. If you want this guy’s business being to himself, then you definitely should rethink coming onto the internet.

You’ve been condescending and trying to hurt my feelings from the very beginning and that makes me upset 😢

YOU STARTED any argument that you experienced here. YOU pushed and pushed, and the result is what you see above.

Opinions are not sacrosanct. They are not equal to facts. You don't get to replace missing facts with opinions and then expect to be given any deference for sharing "an opinion".

No, you don't have to be an ML expert to join MacRumors. You SHOULD be willing to refrain from attacking and blaming a perfect stranger for something that you only FEEL he has involvement in. Otherwise, you PROBABLY WILL be challenged on it. YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR is the catalyst for the outcome.

 

[dysamoria]

That doesn't mean that mental health services and drugs don't work, though. We used to institutionalize folks and these days, with proper medication, a lot of them can live fairly normal lives.

Yeah, sorry, "proper medication" is a PTSD trigger for me. I will supply this link and try not to comment further because it's a HUGE MF-ing mess...

The Council for Evidence-based Psychiatry

Welcome to the website of CEP, the Council for Evidence-based Psychiatry. CEP exists to communicate the evidence of the damaging effects of psychiatric drugs and treatments in the UK to the people and institutions that can make a difference.

cepuk.org

 

[dysamoria]

My father worked for NASA for many years on interplanetary probes, so the stargazing thing has deep roots.

Where I live in Scotland you can still see the Milky Way at night with the unaided eye. I've seen comets, impressive meteor showers (including an impressive outburst of the Leonids in the early 2000's), occultations of planets, both solar and lunar eclipses, the aurora, and a bunch of wildlife I wouldn't normally see if it weren't for stargazing. It has a way of putting things in perspective.

😊 I am envious ❤️

 

[pshufd]

Yeah, sorry, "proper medication" is a PTSD trigger for me. I will supply this link and try not to comment further because it's a HUGE MF-ing mess...

The Council for Evidence-based Psychiatry

Welcome to the website of CEP, the Council for Evidence-based Psychiatry. CEP exists to communicate the evidence of the damaging effects of psychiatric drugs and treatments in the UK to the people and institutions that can make a difference.

cepuk.org

It doesn't work for everyone but, for a lot of people, it makes it possible to live a mostly normal life. I've seen it work firsthand and not work firsthand. But I've met lots of parents who told me that it has worked for their kids; and that they lead normal lives with medication. In some cases the medication fixes the problem and they no longer need to take it.

 

[dysamoria]

Just wow. Utterly ridiculous. The entitlement mentality with some people is out of control!

You have not read the thread, I take it...

 

[dysamoria]

Reading this reply, you'd think the article was about Apple forcing 100 hour work weeks or something. Dude, it's 1-3 days a week at the office. The whole "it's about our families" thing is so obviously just a self-righteous sounding excuse. The real reason is they've gotten too comfortable/spoiled and don't want to give even a bit of that up. You know, sort of like how children act.

JFC ... As if work from home isn't work. 🙄 There's just no end to this attitude... Let's never allow changes for someone else if not all of us are in a position to get exactly the same benefit...

 

[dysamoria]

Burger flipping jobs can’t be done remotely. Engineering jobs can be. Deal with it.

I mean... yeah???? Who suggested otherwise??

 

[usagora]

You have not read the thread, I take it...

Yes, I have. Have you? It's clear that opinion is split on this topic.

JFC ... As if work from home isn't work. 🙄 There's just no end to this attitude... Let's never allow changes for someone else if not all of us are in a position to get exactly the same benefit...

As if I said it wasn't. The point is they want to work THEIR way or the highway. That's so petty.

I don't care what Apple does as far as home vs. office requirements. I simply think it's beyond ridiculous to quite one's job if your employer DOES require you to come into the office a few days a week . . . and then to top it off make it sound like the real reason was concern for your family (as if coming into the office is some unreasonable hardship 🙄). I guess his family wasn't struggling before COVID 🙄 No, again, he's pitching a fit because he's not getting his way. I guess he needs to just go start his own company so he can be his own boss.

 

[No5tromo]

Reading this reply, you'd think the article was about Apple forcing 100 hour work weeks or something. Dude, it's 1-3 days a week at the office. The whole "it's about our families" thing is so obviously just a self-righteous sounding excuse. The real reason is they've gotten too comfortable/spoiled and don't want to give even a bit of that up. You know, sort of like how children act.

I'm pretty sure Apple's HR department agrees with you but at the same time the former director of machine learning couldn't care less about all this since he is already at a job where they value him more.

 

[usagora]

. . . where they value him more.

Yes, how ruthless of Apple to require him to show up for work at the office 3 days a week. They clearly didn't care for him at all. I mean, seriously, who asks that of an employee? /s

 

[Adamantoise]

Yes, how ruthless of Apple to require him to show up for work at the office 3 days a week. They clearly didn't care for him at all. I mean, seriously, who asks that of an employee? /s

Just because it's reasonable to you, doesn't mean it's reasonable to him... And when it comes down to it, he's the one that is doing the job isn't he?

The salient point in all this is that people are free to make their own choices as to what they feel is best for their own career.

Why should he stay in a situation that he no longer enjoys when he has the option of removing himself from that situation?

I've asked this question before in this thread and no one can give a good answer to it.

 

[Itinj24]

@dysamoria

Bravo 👏

You sure did put me in my place! Very noble of you to come to the defense of another MacRumors member and a former Apple employee that refuses to go to work. Yeah, I didn’t read all that. I don’t have that kind of time.

PS- if and when the next Apple employee quits or gets fired, I’ll applaud that too. I’ll keep doing that until they release a product that’s fit for a public release. This stuff is way too expensive to offer a horrible user experience.

 

[usagora]

Just because it's reasonable to you, doesn't mean it's reasonable to him... And when it comes down to it, he's the one that is doing the job isn't he?

The salient point in all this is that people are free to make their own choices as to what they feel is best for their own career.

Why should he stay in a situation that he no longer enjoys when he has the option of removing himself from that situation?

I've asked this question before in this thread and no one can give a good answer to it.

Yes, obviously he's free to make his own choices. Who said he wasn't? I guess the reason I'm being so critical is that he (and people in this thread) are acting like Apple's requirements are unreasonable/oppressive (and apparently a few years ago they weren't? LOL!). If it's simply that he has changed his mind and wants to find a position that allows him to work from home permanently, then fine. But don't act like Apple is some sort of overbearing ogre here.

 

[Ethosik]

How did Snow Leopard delete all your data??

There was that guest user bug that deleted data. It was widely reported.

 

[Adamantoise]

Yes, obviously he's free to make his own choices. Who said he wasn't? I guess the reason I'm being so critical is that he (and people in this thread) are acting like Apple's requirements are unreasonable/oppressive (and apparently a few years ago they weren't? LOL!). If it's simply that he has changed his mind and wants to find a position that allows him to work from home permanently, then fine. But don't act like Apple is some sort of overbearing ogre here.

Whether Apple's requirements are reasonable or not isn't even relevant; they're a corporation, and they're fit to set whatever standards (as long as it's legal) they want of their employees.

Their employees in turn have the choice of meeting that standard or moving on.

But to your point, I haven't seen many say Apple unreasonable in this, I've mostly seen people berate the employee who left and attack his work ethic.

People have said Apple should adapt to a post pandemic world, and whether they do or not is up to them; they may or may not miss out on talent because of their policy, but ultimately, they will do what they feel is best for them. Employees (both current and potential) will in turn do the same thing.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Apple's director of machine learning, Ian Goodfellow, has resigned from his role a little over four years after he joined the company after previously being one of Google's top AI employees, according to The Verge's Zoë Schiffer.

Goodfellow reportedly broke the news to staff in an email, saying his resignation is in part due to Apple's plan to return to in-person work, which required employees to work from the office at least one day per week by April 11, at least two days per week by May 2, and at least three days per week by May 23. "I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team," Goodfellow said in the email.

Apple employees began returning to Apple Park last month, with the three-day in-office work policy being enacted on May 23. Some employees have been unhappy about the plan to return to in-person work.

In a letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook during the summer, a group of employees said "Without the inclusivity that flexibility brings, many of us feel we have to choose between either a combination of our families, our well-being, and being empowered to do our best work, or being a part of Apple. This is a decision none of us take lightly, and a decision many would prefer not to have to make."

Article Link: Apple's Director of Machine Learning Resigns Due to Return to Office Work

lol such childish behaviour. you are being called to go and do ur damn work so go and work. Its reasonable to work atleast 3 days a week from office. and serious Covid is not as problematic anymore as it was. we have Vaccines, heard immunity etc. so get ur lazy butt up from ur couch and do wat u are employed for SMH

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Apple's director of machine learning, Ian Goodfellow, has resigned from his role a little over four years after he joined the company after previously being one of Google's top AI employees, according to The Verge's Zoë Schiffer.

Goodfellow reportedly broke the news to staff in an email, saying his resignation is in part due to Apple's plan to return to in-person work, which required employees to work from the office at least one day per week by April 11, at least two days per week by May 2, and at least three days per week by May 23. "I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team," Goodfellow said in the email.

Apple employees began returning to Apple Park last month, with the three-day in-office work policy being enacted on May 23. Some employees have been unhappy about the plan to return to in-person work.

In a letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook during the summer, a group of employees said "Without the inclusivity that flexibility brings, many of us feel we have to choose between either a combination of our families, our well-being, and being empowered to do our best work, or being a part of Apple. This is a decision none of us take lightly, and a decision many would prefer not to have to make."

Article Link: Apple's Director of Machine Learning Resigns Due to Return to Office Work

lol such childish behaviour. you are being called to go and do ur damn work so go and work. Its reasonable to work atleast 3 days a week from office. and serious Covid is not as problematic anymore as it was. we have Vaccines, heard immunity etc. so get ur lazy butt up from ur couch and do wat u are employed for SMH

 

[usagora]

But to your point, I haven't seen many say Apple unreasonable in this,

That's how I interpreted the quote form the letter at the end of the article - to me that clearly was an ultimatum to Apple implying there was only one reasonable choice for them to make or it was "good bye". I think that's pretty ridiculous considering the requirement is simply 3 days a week at the office (by 5/23).