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Scarpad

macrumors 68020
Jan 13, 2005
2,135
632
Ma
The real news here seems to be the quality of the display in the new Kindle.
It's amazing to see something with 30% more resolution, better color accuracy, and less reflectivity, at a much lower price.

A shame that it's a 16:10 panel and running Android though.
Hopefully we will see other devices with similar quality panels without having to wait a full year.

I'm looking for something to stream videos to, so display quality is my main priority over anything else.

And probably the same blue tinge around the screen that the 7" has that destroys the pure white screens when you are trying to read or browse the web. No Thanks
 

Narcaz

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2013
419
558
Really amazing, who many people think this a great update. Even after played with it at the store, I still think it's incremental at it's best. Can't understand your excitement. The retina screen from the iPad 3 was the greatest improvement so far. I don't know your usage pattern, but most people i know put tablets on a table or on their knees and don't complain about 200g of weight. I hoped, that Apple would use IGZO displays for a longer battery life but instead, they made the device thinner. I'm afraid that the iPhone 6 will still have the same bad battery life, because they think thinner is always better.
 

JulianL

macrumors 68000
Feb 2, 2010
1,658
657
London, UK
Really amazing, who many people think this a great update. Even after played with it at the store, I still think it's incremental at it's best. Can't understand your excitement. The retina screen from the iPad 3 was the greatest improvement so far. I don't know your usage pattern, but most people i know put tablets on a table or on their knees and don't complain about 200g of weight. I hoped, that Apple would use IGZO displays for a longer battery life but instead, they made the device thinner. I'm afraid that the iPhone 6 will still have the same bad battery life, because they think thinner is always better.
Everyone has different priorities. Some people want maximum battery life and don't care that much about a few extra mm of thickness and 100g or more of weight, other people already think that the iPad battery life is fantastic and want the device to become as thin and light as possible. The problem for Apple is that with current technology it's not possible to satisfy everyone so they have to judge the balance to create maximum satisfaction across the entire user base. I suppose I'm lucky in that I'm one of the people who thinks that the battery life on the Air delivers all that I need and I'm glad that they used the added power efficiencies to make it as thin and light as possible.

My personal view on the iPhone is the opposite of my view on the iPad. For the next iPhone I really hope that they aim to maintain rather than reduce the weight and thickness and use any increased power efficiencies to increase battery life as much as possible. I'd even be willing to accept a bit of weight gain in return for much better battery life on the next iPhone.
 

osofast240sx

macrumors 68030
Mar 25, 2011
2,539
16
Really amazing, who many people think this a great update. Even after played with it at the store, I still think it's incremental at it's best. Can't understand your excitement. The retina screen from the iPad 3 was the greatest improvement so far. I don't know your usage pattern, but most people i know put tablets on a table or on their knees and don't complain about 200g of weight. I hoped, that Apple would use IGZO displays for a longer battery life but instead, they made the device thinner. I'm afraid that the iPhone 6 will still have the same bad battery life, because they think thinner is always better.
The people that develop these amazing technologies must really feel unappreciated by your comments. These are huge leaps by many standards. Hopefully apple will have those solar igzo displays ready for the iPhone 6
 

Narcaz

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2013
419
558
In my perspective, the thinness paradigm of product design reached the point, where useful improvements are blocked. The iPad Air is still amazing technology. But Apple sometimes values thinness more than functionality and user needs. Their desktop systems are the best examples for design> functionality. Please make the next iMac thinner and drop the dGPus, it looks so fat.
 

absurdamerica

macrumors regular
Nov 14, 2011
158
0
So funding an organization so it can roll-out its technology would be considered inventing or innovating that technology? In that case, does this mean you will give credit to Microsoft for Apple's comeback circa 1998 when MS invested $150M into Apple?

Uh, yes, Microsoft deserves huge credit for that.
 

iRun26.2

macrumors 68020
Aug 15, 2010
2,123
345
Picture this: 12" Macbook Air with Retina IGZO display in 2014. 12 hours battery life.

I can't wait!

The fact that the iPad already has IGZO means that new MBA with retina display rumor seems more credible.
 

vomhorizon

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2013
952
68
Its also fairly clear that the next iphone would spot IGZO perhaps even a PPI jump...A larger battery mated to a much less power hungry screen would do wonders for battery life..
 

rkuo

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2010
1,215
816
Is that really true? In that case either...

1 - The iPad Air doesn't have an IGZO screen
2 - Apple did a bad job of implementing IGZO in the Air
or 3 - DisplayMate messed up their power consumption tests

... because, adjusting for the same luminance and screen area, DisplayMate actually measured the LTPS screen in the Amazon tablet as being 30% more power efficient than the alleged IGZO screen in the iPad Air.

I'd be interested in more info on the relative power efficiency of LTPS vs IGZO because I'd really like what you say to be correct (and I'm not saying it isn't - all I know about displays is what I read and what other people tell me).


I'd certainly heard that benefit of IGZO vs a-Si but I hadn't read about it against LTPS as well. If rkuo is correct then that would bring an added benefit if an LTPS to IGZO switch was made for the iPhone 6 because, at least for my use, I spend a lot of time looking at static screens (reading ebooks, looking at a map, looking something up in Wikipedia or my Evernote database or just consulting my calendar). The hardware being able to skip refresh cycles when I'm reading ebooks could give a very worthwhile boost to my battery life.

The whole situation is a bit ambiguous to me now because the test involves IGZO vs LTPS tech in conjunction with backlights, etc ... and I don't know the current state of production displays. Based on the paper widely available out there, IGZO should be more efficient due to the very high light transmission characteristics enabled by the ability to pass sufficient current in much smaller wiring and transistors. LTPS passes a lot of current but also leaks a lot of current, which seems to make IGZO the best choice for mobile devices according to the paper. The noise generated by IGZO tech is also supposedly lower and can allow the touch panels to be driven with less energy as well.

Amazon did a couple of things ... they used a blue led backlight in conjunction with phosphors to produce their backlight, which they claim increases power efficiency by 20%. This has nothing to do with IGZO or LTPS at all ... simply the efficiency of the backlight and thus the entire display. And may actually have been a bad choice if you go by that "blue fringes on my e-book" posts that some have been making. Second, it is of course possible that some advance in LTPS tech has been made that just isn't well understood or googleable and has somehow made LTPS better for display efficiency in general. This is possible, but I'm skeptical of it since this would be the first we've heard of it.
 

tbrinkma

macrumors 68000
Apr 24, 2006
1,651
93
Uh, yes, Microsoft deserves huge credit for that.

Sure. Microsoft deserves all sorts of credit for paying a law suit settlement so that, years later, people with short memories could call it an 'investment' that 'rescued Apple from bankruptcy'. :rolleyes:
 

xofruitcake

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2012
632
9
Really amazing, who many people think this a great update. Even after played with it at the store, I still think it's incremental at it's best. Can't understand your excitement. The retina screen from the iPad 3 was the greatest improvement so far. I don't know your usage pattern, but most people i know put tablets on a table or on their knees and don't complain about 200g of weight. I hoped, that Apple would use IGZO displays for a longer battery life but instead, they made the device thinner. I'm afraid that the iPhone 6 will still have the same bad battery life, because they think thinner is always better.

huh? bad battery life.. How long does your battery last with normal usage? If you play game 10 hours straight, none of the tablet will meet your need and none will. Tablet is a general purpose device mean for average workload..
 

Tigger92

macrumors member
Sep 22, 2009
77
0
North Carolina
both are almost equally power efficient. The difference is IGZO is a lot more easier to mass produce at that size. This is why Apple use LTPS for phones and IGZO for tablets...

Actually IGZO is a little more efficient (has higher electron mobilities) than LTPS.

The reason they use it for the tablets right now is not because it is easier to mass produce, but that it allows for more of the pixel to be transparent. This leads to higher optical throughput and overall higher optical efficiency, which in turn leads to less power consumption...IE smaller batteries...lighter weight.
 

JulianL

macrumors 68000
Feb 2, 2010
1,658
657
London, UK
Actually IGZO is a little more efficient (has higher electron mobilities) than LTPS.

The reason they use it for the tablets right now is not because it is easier to mass produce, but that it allows for more of the pixel to be transparent. This leads to higher optical throughput and overall higher optical efficiency, which in turn leads to less power consumption...IE smaller batteries...lighter weight.
So is the DisplayMate report of the Amazon LTPS screen being 30% more power efficient than the apple IGZO screen down to faulty testing, maybe Amazon's use of blue backlight LEDs suggested earlier in this thread, or something else?

I'm anxious to understand this because, while we're all still waiting in vain for some big breakthrough in battery chemistry, reducing the power consumption of the display seems to me to be the single biggest hope for better iPhone battery life.
 

sessamoid

macrumors member
Aug 18, 2011
74
6
Sure...I'll agree with that. I agree that the original iPhone was innovative; it provided the right combination of existing touch screen technology inside a great form factor with appropriate and user-friendly software.

But sticking an IGZO screen into an iPad is not innovative. Merely putting a new component (that wasn't invented by Apple itself) into one of its devices doesn't reflect innovation.

"Innovation is the application of better solutions that meet new requirements, inarticulate needs, or existing market needs. This is accomplished through more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments and society." - wikipedia

Bringing IGZO screens to mass market in quantities of 10's to 100's of millions of devices is definitely innovative. The word you seem to be looking for is "revolutionary", which is what the first iPhone and iPad were. "Innovative" is not equivalent to "revolutionary".
 

blackcrayon

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2003
2,257
1,826
We just bought one and I like that it is lighter but I can see these getting broken a lot if School's try to adopt them.

Isn't that why they make those thick rubbery cases? I can't see it breaking much more easily than an iPad 3 or 4, especially since those have more weight to break themselves when they drop.
 

priyamsingh

macrumors member
Sep 19, 2013
78
0
Amazing, a man sold on what marketing names they give to things.

If I told you the iPad had 2gb of ram in it, would it make you happier too? Talk about snake oil.

Tell you what, its got 2gb of ram, its got an A7X, IGZO technology, Corning Gorilla Glass 3 and a quad core chip. Will that make your experience of using it better for you now?

Also you should read up, "Gorilla Glass" only exists now because Jobs resurrected a 15 year old project from the death for the original iPhone.

I know it probabily has GG I'm saying from a marketing point of view it mighht help to advertize it.

No telling me would not be enough. I would put it through objective benchmarks to see if it performs better. Also I should add that I was upgrading from Ipad 4, not buying a new Ipad for the first time. So if it's pretty much the same specs it's a pretty dumb thing to do to upgrade. So I'm saying they should say this one has better display, more RAM etc so there is good reason for people to upgrade from a marketing standpoint.

----------

you do realize how crazy that is, right?
its still the same device with the same batterylife, just like before this annoucement. but now that you know its IGZO, its somehow better? ;)

It sounds crazy? So if you're buying a tablet and they say this one uses IGZO technology, and this other one uses the normal LCD display technology but everything else is the same you'd go with the LCD one? There are objective benefits to IGZO such as more accurate touch panels. Do your research.

----------

I can't tell a difference whatsoever and I've had a 3 and 4 iPad

----------



Sounds like you're the problem and not Apple.

I thouht the Air display looked better than my iPad 4 display even before knowing that it uses IGZO. But I don't know It could be placebo.
 

kage207

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2008
971
56
IGZO is dead lol
Also, keep in mind low yield qualities of LTPS and the high cost associated with it. If there are low yields, I bet there's even more issues with them in the long haul. I still have a 1st gen iPad and it works wonderfully to this day.

Given I do want an iPad Air, I decide to go from 16GB iPhone 4s to 32GB iPhone 5s since I couldn't afford 32GB iPad Air. :/

My only problem with Apple is the base SSD for their product line up. It's horrible. I want 32GB on all iOS devices and 256GB on all Mac line up.

EDIT: I also want to know when they upgraded to 64bit CPUs for the iOS device line up they didn't bump the RAM to 2GB. :/
 

azurehi

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2009
185
3
Bluesky
In the MR iPad Air forums there are reports of uneven/discolored displays. My Air was bluish and darker on the left side. I returned it, will wait awhile and try again. Could this be related to Fewer backlights?
 

APlotdevice

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2011
3,145
3,861
It sounds crazy? So if you're buying a tablet and they say this one uses IGZO technology, and this other one uses the normal LCD display technology but everything else is the same you'd go with the LCD one? There are objective benefits to IGZO such as more accurate touch panels. Do your research.
Please do not say "normal LCD". This is still an LCD. LCDs have numerous components; many of which are continually being improved. IGZO is an improved form of transistor.
 
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