AW5 LTE GPS accuracy problem

[rbart]

No news for me ...

 

[NME42]

Today a guy acknowledged on Apple Community the problem with AW5 and LTE. Said he did not have this with AW3. But did not state if he had LTE also on AW3.
Question is still open if this is a AW5 or watchOS 6 problem. I guess latter.

 

[rbart]

Do you have the link of this post?

 

[NME42]

Apple Watch Series 5 - GPS & LTE Gena… - Apple Community

communities.apple.com

 

[rbart]

Thanks !
I try to translate...

 

[NME42]

No need. Already translated the important things for you.

 

[PBz]

Repeated my run from last week where I had fantastic results with LTE off. Today with LTE and it is also very good. No hiccups.
Both runs with Apple app.

Edit: oh wait. After checking the track again, there is one terrible hiccup. Looked at first glance very smooth but in detail I was about 50m off the track and doing a curve I did not run.

So watchOS 6.1.1 or provider update does not fix the issue.

In runalyze the hiccups are easy to locate, I only have to look at such patterns in the pace chart:

View attachment 882701

And here is the hiccup. Difficult area, but last week was flawless without LTE. Today:

View attachment 882702

In that map are those apartments on the right side? I wonder if that is the cause of the hiccup. I have done walks/runs with my AW5 and literally had it wobble when walking near trees on a sidewalk.

 

[NME42]

In that map are those apartments on the right side? I wonder if that is the cause of the hiccup. I have done walks/runs with my AW5 and literally had it wobble when walking near trees on a sidewalk.

No, on the left. And they are not high. As I am running on a dam they are more or less on the same level. Tree cover is quite dense there.

 

[diba]

My run today .... 8km with LTE, Airpods and streaming favorites playlist. For me it looks fine, slightly left or right of the track is within tolerance.

 

[mk313]

No, on the left. And they are not high. As I am running on a dam they are more or less on the same level. Tree cover is quite dense there.

When you have lte off are you turning off lte by itself or putting it in airplane mode? It might be grasping at straws but if it’s airplane mode that is fixing the problem (as opposed to cellular being the only thing off) I wonder if the problem is with the watch connecting to an open wifi network that you had at some point connected to on your phone, which is causing the hiccup.

If you have seen doing airplane mode, it might be worth trying only lte off. If you’re already doing lte only off, then this is obviously not the answer.

 

[NME42]

When you have lte off are you turning off lte by itself or putting it in airplane mode?

No airplane mode for me. My procedure is always the same: switch off bluetooth on iPhone (through settings, not control center), switch off Wifi on the watch and then either leave LTE on or switch it off. So pretty sure I never ran the last times with a Wifi on as I do switch this off to be sure to start with GPS from the watch and not my iPhone that is at home.

In the areas where I had major glitches I can say with 99% assurance that there are no Wifis available I had connected to in the past. But as I understand, position determination can also be done through Wifis you have not connected to in the past.

Btw, got a new watchband for christmas and when I attached it to the watch, I did so that crown was positioned to the right (left arm). Well I thought, give it a try again and my first run was quite wobbly again. Repeated the same route next day with crown back to left and it is a lot better.
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My run today .... 8km with LTE, Airpods and streaming favorites playlist. For me it looks fine, slightly left or right of the track is within tolerance.

Yes, can be (hard to check on your map without underlying paths for someone not familiar with the routes). I can have three runs in a row with LTE on and they are perfect and then three runs with terrible hiccups. Not really predictable.

 

[rbart]

All my last runs with LTE ON have been tracked right.
No obvious hiccups or errors.
I have also done one run with watch connected to my iPhone ans I get similar map.
It´ sa bit less smooth than without LTE but it’s acceptable

 

[NME42]

Good, but what has changed? Could be still random and you had a luck.

On German Apple community post there were new colleagues with problems.

 

[rbart]

I can’t explain...
Maybe just luck, or the operator has done something?
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The glitches are the same when using iPhone GPS

 

[NME42]

Yes, think so too. Saw a posting about iPhone GPS problems on iPhone 11. The glitches looked exactly like ours.

Upgraded my Stryd to deliver power data and recorded my last runs with Stryd app. So distance and pace are 99.9% correct. Track is only icing on the cake.

 

[rbart]

I remember when iPhone 6s has been launched in France
GPS was buggy with one operator (Bouygues) when connected to LTE network
This problem has been fixed silently by the operator

 

[NME42]

After quite a few tries (always landed on the German page), I managed to post a thread on the international Apple Support Community, maybe some other guys are reading it:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250999303

 

[MJ22]

My maps always have a bit of smoothing whether LTE is on or off—the test for me is usually when I run with my run group, or do a race, and how my AW distance compares to others with various watches. My issue was when I came out .27 miles ahead of 45 others who uploaded the same run to Strava (and missed a locally prestigious award by :03 thinking I was on pace!!!!). It was at this point the variation was no longer acceptable to me. I couldn’t tell one way or the other just by looking at the map—I need hard, other numbers (from a varied sampling) for comparison. The fact remains is that I’m always way ahead with LTE on.

 

[rbart]

I am running with LTE on for few weeks now (3 times a week) and I haven't noticed any significant glitch on my tracks.
I use workoutdoors and stock workout app depending on the activity. Both give a good map (always smoother with apple built in app).
Maybe I get better results because I am running in places that are easier for GPS localization ?
It's possible.
I have a night trail in forest on Saturday, I will probably put LTE on to check.

 

[rbart]

First run yesterday with 6.1.2 update and LTE ON, the tracking was perfect.
It's a long time I haven't noticed any big issue but it looks cleaner.
I have noticed they have updated the baseband firmware of the watch, maybe they have included a fix ?
Let's hope

 

[NME42]

Good news. Will give it a try tomorrow. Though when running with Stryd, I do not care too much about the tracking.

 

[rbart]

After several "perfect" tracking, my last run was not so good. 2 or 3 places during my 18km footing where the track is a bit strange. So, I can say it's not fixed, unfortunately ...

 

[NME42]

Too bad. So inconsistent behavior.
Following your experiences (before reading your latest posting), I switched back on LTE (also to be online). And well: very good track, no glitches at all.

 

[NME42]

Ok, back with one of my worst tracks ever with LTE on. Happy to have a Stryd to have correct distance.

Look at this mess of a track. I came from a heavy tree covered area (dotted path) to the big street with perfect conditions. Track is all over the place:

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[rbart]

For my training I use LTE as it's not really important to have a perfect tracking.
If I run a race, I disable LTE to have a better estimate.
It's really a long time I haven't seen such an ugly tracking ...
I am afraid they will never fix it.