Browser Companies Criticize Apple's EU Choice Screen in iOS 17.4

[nicolas_s]

The law isn’t to hurt big players, it’s to protect citizens

We are seeing a recession because some wrongly assumed Russia is a good source for gas and oil.

It started way before 2022. EU growth has been slow for more than 10 years. 1 euro was 1.50 dollars back then, and has been falling since. It's kind of a taboo, but many EU entrepreneurs, engineers, programers, etc, move to the US because the startup and small business economy is so much more dynamic and less regulated.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It started way before 2022. EU growth has been slow for more than 10 years. 1 euro was 1.50 dollars back then, and has been falling since. It's kind of a taboo, but many EU entrepreneurs, engineers, programers, etc, move to the US because the startup and small business economy is so much more dynamic and less regulated.

And 20 years ago it was worth 90cents And today 1€ is about 1$.

That’s completely fine, I will still not compromise the value of privacy for the sake of a business. Irrespective of its a 1 man company or a 10.000 man company. My data isn’t for sale unless I consent to it, and it should always be that.

We can get great economic growth if we remove some regulations that protect citizens rights. And that’s completely irrelevant

 

[cyb3rdud3]

There’s no such thing in the law. The cookie banner is a direct consequence of the law. It doesn’t say anything about cookies.

You know those modal screens that interrupt your groove when you are surfing?
There are no laws forcing websites to use them.
They use them because they choose to.


So basically, we tell companies the same thing we tell young boys: if it's getting private, you need consent.

You'll notice the words "cookie" or "banner" appear nowhere in this paragraph. That's because they are not the focus of the law.

The only thing that matters is that if an entity wants to track people, they have to let them know in a way that is clear and request their approval.

Well not just letting them know, also keeping a record that they've received consent.

You can't even use Google Analytics without having to display a banner. Most of my clients just renounce to use analytics data because they don't want to bother with that and they're afraid of not doing it right and risking fines. They miss out on precious analytics data and it can hurt growth. And then we wonder why the GDP is stagnant here.

Well in reality, the abusers that dared to install a script to know for how long a visitor stayed on their site don't end up failing, they just end up moving to the US while we're here complaining that there isn't any tech company left here.

You seem to forget the domestic (for you I guess) privacy laws. This isn't just the GDPR, there is also PIPEDA for Canada, the CCPA and CalOPPA in California. Then Virginia, Colorado, Connecticut and UTAH also have their own versions. And from July Florida, Oregon, and Texas are joining the party. In October you get Montana. And then next year Iowa, Delaware, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee, Indian and Kentucky follow.

LOL The diversity would make companies long for a coherent all encompassing GDPR framework Oh wait then there is the ADPPA in the working but ever so slow.

This isn't going away, no country in the world will be and should be immune. All companies have to do is get with it, comply and not abuse our data.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

And 20 years ago it was worth 90cents And today 1€ is about 1$.

And climbing; as in the value of the Euro and USD dropping as a trading pair.

That’s completely fine, I will still not compromise the value of privacy for the sake of a business. Irrespective of its a 1 man company or a 10.000 man company. My data isn’t for sale unless I consent to it, and it should always be that.

We can get great economic growth if we remove some regulations that protect citizens rights. And that’s completely irrelevant

And what a lot of business, and people within businesses seem to forget is that they can still do that when as you say they obtain consent, or have a genuine business purpose for it. I've lost count the number of times I've challenged marketing departments and product managers as to what the legitimate business reason would be. I even say to them that I can help and support to do it right, but rarely I get a satisfactory answer. Then followed by a complaint and call by the CEO as to why I'm so difficult and then I ask them, and they can't answer either. I explain about how they open themselves up to fines and all is fine, and then we get the next wide boy in marketing and the games start all over again. LOL

 

[Sophisticatednut]

And climbing; as in the value of the Euro and USD dropping as a trading pair.

And what a lot of business, and people within businesses seem to forget is that they can still do that when as you say they obtain consent, or have a genuine business purpose for it. I've lost count the number of times I've challenged marketing departments and product managers as to what the legitimate business reason would be. I even say to them that I can help and support to do it right, but rarely I get a satisfactory answer. Then followed by a complaint and call by the CEO as to why I'm so difficult and then I ask them, and they can't answer either. I explain about how they open themselves up to fines and all is fine, and then we get the next wide boy in marketing and the games start all over again. LOL

I guess it’s seen as cost of doing business? And not understanding that fines in EU isn’t a cost of doing business but actually impactful to discourage the continued breaking of laws

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I guess it’s seen as cost of doing business? And not understanding that fines in EU isn’t a cost of doing business but actually impactful to discourage the continued breaking of laws

Yup, 4% of global turnover or 20mln Euro whichever is the highest. These are serious fines.

It should be no surprise that big well-known US companies like Meta, TikTok, Amazon, Google have had some of the bigger fines already. Undoubtedly many smaller ones as well but they don't make the news as much.

 

[chmania]

Yup, 4% of global turnover or 20mln Euro whichever is the highest. These are serious fines.

It should be no surprise that big well-known US companies like Meta, TikTok, Amazon, Google have had some of the bigger fines already. Undoubtedly many smaller ones as well but they don't make the news as much.

And, EU is a larger market than the US.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

And, EU is a larger market than the US.

To be honest that is irrelevant, despite that it is even bigger as Europe. The point with this is that it depends where the consumer resides, not where the company is. Besides it is the decent thing to do.

 

[FaustsHausUK]

They don't license their OS on third party hardware as they know it would be a popular option for many people wanting access to Mac environment without paying fora mac.

And they don't want it on any other devices as they want a monopoly on their own devices… which i completely understand. They want to control the experience in order to provide that Apple experience. Problem is, as Apple become more and more popular…this monopoly poses a question for authorities everywhere.

There is way more to it than that. A massive part of why Apple have been so successful is that their software increasingly runs on hardware they designed explicitly for it, and that integration has paid off - they frequently smoke the competition in performance per watt, and they are no longer beholden to Intel's roadmap to get features and functionality they need.

Imagine if they then had to get their operating systems running on an infinite variety of off-the-shelf components. How much buggier the software would be, how many features they would have to nix entirely or make exclusive to their hardware anyway, how poor the experience would be for users who were trying to run Mac OS on those cheapie laptops you buy from Walmart or Amazon. There are many benefits to not licensing.

I was alive for the last time Mac OS was licensed to third parties, and Steve trying to get Dell to license Mac OS. I personally think that was a horrible detour.

 

[Fuzzball84]

There is way more to it than that. A massive part of why Apple have been so successful is that their software increasingly runs on hardware they designed explicitly for it, and that integration has paid off - they frequently smoke the competition in performance per watt, and they are no longer beholden to Intel's roadmap to get features and functionality they need.

Imagine if they then had to get their operating systems running on an infinite variety of off-the-shelf components. How much buggier the software would be, how many features they would have to nix entirely or make exclusive to their hardware anyway, how poor the experience would be for users who were trying to run Mac OS on those cheapie laptops you buy from Walmart or Amazon. There are many benefits to not licensing.

I was alive for the last time Mac OS was licensed to third parties, and Steve trying to get Dell to license Mac OS. I personally think that was a horrible detour.

Makes you think just how fantastic a job the people working on windows and linux have done considering the challenge to optimise for an uncountable number of hardware configurations.

I didnt say people wanted to run Mac OS on cheapie laptops. This is the issue with alot of Apple users, they think of the lower PC end automatically without thinking that maybe people with business class laptops from dell, lenovo… surface devices might want to run Mac OS officially as a virtual machine for development purposes.

 

[farmboy]

But all states are still doing business with Russia. There are just some things that are necessary… unless you're in outright direct conflict/war. But even then, you'd still probably be trading things indirectly via a third or fourth etc country.

Good to know that violating EU laws and treaties on a massive scale is permissible as long as some deem it necessary. I guess in Brussels human rights are less important than "consumer harm" by not having an easier browser choice. So much easier to collect fines that way.

 

[chmania]

To be honest that is irrelevant, despite that it is even bigger as Europe. The point with this is that it depends where the consumer resides, not where the company is. Besides it is the decent thing to do.

The thing is the EU sort of looks after the rights of the consumer, rather than the manufacturer.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The thing is the EU sort of looks after the rights of the consumer, rather than the manufacturer.

Not really they look after both. Afterall it’s a common market. It brings lots of advantages for manufacturers and consumers alike.

 

[God of Biscuits]

It's a meaningless prompt anyways, and if anyone here has any ideas on how the UI can be improved, I am all ears. I am not allowed to arrange the browser options in any meaningful order because then, some company ending with Y might accuse me of favour another company whose browser begins with E or C.

I don't think users are interested in scrolling through long descriptions of what each browser does when they just want to browse the web. If I want an alternate browser, I am perfectly capable of searching for one and installing it on my own. No need for random prompts to hijack my web browsing experience.

who are YOU to be doing all this work on Appleis behalf here? They‘ve got literal legions of VI and UI people who‘ve solved harder problems to greater effect, and they did it because they knew better software would sell more hardware and keep their reputation intact.