Can we talk about the fanlessness

[SpotOnT]

I think the people who use the MacBook Air don’t need a fan. It would just be another component to break. Another component to get clogged up and need to be disassembled to clean.

Having a sealed device is really better. Less likely get foreign objects inside, causing damage. Thinner. Lighter. Quieter. Better battery life.

That said, a fan-less laptop certainly isn’t for everyone. Just like a headphone-jack-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-computer isn’t for everyone.

 

[JoeDezibel]

Imagine a lecture at the university when 50 laptops are making a quiet noise. And now the same with 200 MacBook Air. For this reason!

 

[boss.king]

Am I the only one who hates that Apple removed the fans on the MacBook Airs when they transitioned to Apple Silicon?

How could any one see it as a "feature" having no active cooling at all, what is the good in that? I only feel that people has been tricked into thinking that this is a good feature.

I don't like computers that makes unnecessary noise, sure, but even with our 2015 Air noise isn't really a problem (even though it has an old Intel processor). During light work you never hear the fan. Imagine it having a M{1,2,3}, the computer would handle much heavier work before you would notice the fan.

To me, the real reasons for Apple to remove the fan and market it as a feature are (1) forcing people to buy more than what they need (MacBook Pro) and (2) save 1 or 2 bucks in the manufacturing of these laptops.

Of course no. 1 is more important to Apple.

What do you think?

What is it that you're wanting to do on a MacBook Air that you're finding that it can't do in its current fanless iteration?

I can't speak for everyone, but I've used an M2 Air for photo and video editing, music production, Blender rendering, light gaming, etc, and I've only had it get hot enough to throttle maybe four times since I got it at launch. The trade-off for those four instances where it was slightly slower but still faster than the MacBook Pro it replaced is that I haven't had to hear a fan once in almost two years.

The MacBook Air isn't meant to be the ultra-powerful workhorse computer that can do everything, but it is plenty powerful for most tasks. If you need something that can handle heavy sustained loads for hours at a time, the Air has always been the wrong computer for your needs, although ironically this fanless iteration is better at handling those workloads than any of the past versions that had fans.

And, as you point out, Apple will sell you a computer almost identical to the Air with a fan if you need it in the form of the MacBook Pro, so your complaint is essentially that you just don't like Apple's pricing.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Am I the only one who hates that Apple removed the fans on the MacBook Airs when they transitioned to Apple Silicon?

How could any one see it as a "feature" having no active cooling at all, what is the good in that? I only feel that people has been tricked into thinking that this is a good feature.

I don't like computers that makes unnecessary noise, sure, but even with our 2015 Air noise isn't really a problem (even though it has an old Intel processor). During light work you never hear the fan. Imagine it having a M{1,2,3}, the computer would handle much heavier work before you would notice the fan.

To me, the real reasons for Apple to remove the fan and market it as a feature are (1) forcing people to buy more than what they need (MacBook Pro) and (2) save 1 or 2 bucks in the manufacturing of these laptops.

Of course no. 1 is more important to Apple.

What do you think?

No one is forced to buy a damn thing more than they want to buy. Why is it that there are people on this forum who act as though they are not in control of their own financial decisions and want to put responsibility on Tim Cook or Apple as though they are being held at gunpoint to buy something beyond their means?

There is this insane entitlement by a certain percentage here who think they deserve the top kick for the same price as the bottom rung and that is simply not how the world operates. Is Tag Heuer supposed to sell me a watch for the price of a Seiko? Is Porsche supposed to sell me a plain vanilla 911 at the same price as a GT3 RSR? Why is Apple supposed to do this differently for you entitled few? Seriously, so many wasted threads of people simply complaining that they cannot buy what they want because they cannot afford it and want Apple to sell it to them cheaper because they think they deserve it without paying the extra cost. Other industries do not seem to deal with this same insufferable silliness.

 

[6749974]

To me, the real reasons for Apple to remove the fan and market it as a feature are (1) forcing people to buy more than what they need (MacBook Pro)

Because MacBook Airs were so weak, I had to buy $2500-3000 Macs for my work. Adjusted for inflation those are $3200-3900.

I can now buy MacBook Airs for $1700-2100 for what used to cost me $3200-3900. That’s a 46% pricing discount.

If anything, Apple is forcing MacBook Pro owners to consider MacBook Airs.

 

[NT1440]

Because MacBook Airs were so weak, I had to buy $2500-3000 Macs for my work. Adjusted for inflation those are $3200-3900.

I can now buy MacBook Airs for $1700-2100 for what used to cost me $3200-3900. That’s a 46% pricing discount.

If anything, Apple is forcing MacBook Pro owners to consider MacBook Airs.

I literally just pointed out to my team at work that the next time we refresh our Creative Team (image assets) we’ll be able to save a ton of money by buying the 15” Air going forward. There’s nothing they’re doing that requires more oomph than the M1 MacBook Pro’s they’re on now. So whenever it’s time to move them into what will probably be M6/7 we’ll have no problem getting the *weakest* machines Apple offers.

For a ton of use cases that previously required higher end configs, the Apple silicon transition has dramatically changed the buying game.

 

[6749974]

I literally just pointed out to my team at work that the next time we refresh our Creative Team (image assets) we’ll be able to save a ton of money by buying the 15” Air going forward. There’s nothing they’re doing that requires more oomph than the M1 MacBook Pro’s they’re on now. So whenever it’s time to move them into what will probably be M6/7 we’ll have no problem getting the *weakest* machines Apple offers.

For a ton of use cases that previously required higher end configs, the Apple silicon transition has dramatically changed the buying game.

Exactly.

• With sufficient RAM—entry M-chips multitasks Adobe apps with productivity apps—effortlessly—8 CPU cores is more than enough.
• The Air display is very close—to some, indistinguishable—to a MacBook Pro's display if working in SDR mode.
• 500 nits, 99% P3 color space, and 1400:1 contrast on a MacBook Air is way better than I had it back then. Thats better than most external displays, which are dimmer, have 1000:1 contrast or less, and a matte coating (ruins blacks). The MacBook Air display is on balance equal to an Apple Studio Display, just smaller because its a laptop size—and everybody loves Apple Studio Display so the Air display deserves that same energy.
• Not to mention, many of us creatives are connecting to external displays at work, and with one-cable.

So why does a visual artist need a MacBook Pro? I know 3D animators would want the most processing and GPU, but everyone else is served well by Airs now, and that's fantastic.

PS: MacBook Airs are getting OLED in 2027—which may be just in time for when your team wants to upgrade.

 

[CrysisDeu]

I think you misinterpret the design intention of the product.

Apple didn't omit the fan(s) in a MacBook Air to "save 1 or 2 bucks", they did it because A) it would add size/weight/bulk in a very thin design and B) the target audience of the Air will rarely push the machine that would benefit from active cooling under sustained loads.

Take a look at Huawei Matebook X Pro under 1kilo. It uses ultra lightweight fans, and cuts down on the size of the pcb. It can deliver 40 watts to the cpu. That is m3 pro level power consumption.

If Apple wanted to decrease the weight. They shouldn’t leave the unused pcb and cover in the macbook air. That is just dead weight.

If Apple actually tried, we could have got an macbook air that’s even lighter, has m3 pro, with active cooling in the same package.

Oh air shouldn’t have this much power?
Then the air should be even lighter and thinner with the same battery capacity.
Just take a look at the teardown, they wasted so much internal space.

But nooooo

It’s funny seeing people defending Apple. The 12 inch macbook was the closest they’ve ever got to a legit “air” laptop. And they didn’t even bother to try again with Apple Silicon in hand. The new design is just lazy. It’s much easier to design and engineer a square box compared to a visually better looking tapered design.

Cutting corners? Not offering the best package they can offer? Not taking engineering challenges? What kind of Apple is this? And you all guys want that?

 

[Shirasaki]

Precisely for the reason of thermal throttling I didn’t even look at M1 Air when I bought my M1 MacBook Pro, and I never regret that choice of spending (quite) a bit of extra. Not only M1 CPU/GPU power is lagging behind for me today despite no “heavy usage” (cough, video editing, cough), processor temp easily shoot to 70C range, though if I only use Safari the temp can sometimes go as low as 29C. The fan noise however, is noticeably lower than my Windows PC which ramps up fans often and sound Louder.

With that being said, fan-less design has its place, for example in places where ambient noise must be kept in a minimum, and introducing a fan may impact the acceptable noise level. Combined with longstanding history of Mac being used as machine for music production, fan-less is more preferable when processing power of the machine meets the requirements. I don’t like fan-less design, but that’s just me (and some others).

(Yeah count me also “hate” fan-less design -.-)

 

[BeatCrazy]

Take a look at Huawei Matebook X Pro under 1kilo.
If Apple wanted to decrease the weight. They shouldn’t leave the unused pcb and cover in the macbook air. That is just dead weight

Are you talking about the M1, or M2/3?

 

[CrysisDeu]

Are you talking about the M1, or M2/3?

2/3
The part it flexed have nothing in it. and the PCB has no reason to be this large. It’s just a M3 chip.

And the gap at the bottom. Uh

 

[6749974]

But nooooo

It’s funny seeing people defending Apple. The 12 inch macbook was the closest they’ve ever got to a legit “air” laptop. And they didn’t even bother to try again with Apple Silicon in hand. The new design is just lazy. It’s much easier to design and engineer a square box compared to a visually better looking tapered design.

Cutting corners? Not offering the best package they can offer? Not taking engineering challenges? What kind of Apple is this? And you all guys want that?

Apple isn't above criticism. But praising Huawei for stealing Apple's design language for the Air is some kind of irony. You undermine an otherwise interesting comment.

EDIT: Reading the review on Notebookcheck.... The Huawei Matebook X Pro performance doesn't seem much better than a MacBook Air. And the average load fan noise is 42 db which is 68% higher than a MacBook Pro—and I would imagine the pitch is worse. You want that put into our fanless and silent MacBook Air? The case gets warm even when idling or performing light tasks. The display is 90Hz and only 90% DCI-P3 color space—where as the Air and MBP are at 99% DCI-P3. I interpret your comment to say that Apple leans toward the conservative side and has room to push it further should they choose. Valid opinion. I lean towards Apple's design decisions over Huawei, but everyone is allowed a preference.

EDIT 2: Notebook check says with their WLAN test, the Huawei Matebook X Pro 2023 version gets 4 hours at full brightness—where as the M3 Air gets 7 hours at full brightness—and the M3 Pro 14-inch MacBook Pro does 6:21 hours at full brightness. Oof. I'm going to slowly back away from this conversation and hug my MacBook Air.

I don't agree with your perspective.

EDIT 3: Why does this supposed "metal laptop" look like a plastic piece of doo-doo.

 

[BeatCrazy]

2/3
The part it flexed have nothing in it. and the PCB has no reason to be this large. It’s just a M3 chip.

And the gap at the bottom. Uh
View attachment 2369677

Dead weight? 3 grams?

The SiP has to be in the middle for optimal heat displacement/distribution. Spreading those VRMs out also helps with heat.

The PCB has to extend all the way to the left side because there are ports it has to reach!

You're mad at the right side that is fairly empty? Maybe it savings $$ in assembly/production costs? If that extra 3g saves Apple $14M in production costs, their product team gets paid to make those decisions.

 

[BeatCrazy]

It’s funny seeing people defending Apple. The 12 inch macbook was the closest they’ve ever got to a legit “air” laptop. And they didn’t even bother to try again with Apple Silicon in hand. The new design is just lazy. It’s much easier to design and engineer a square box compared to a visually better looking tapered design.

Cutting corners? Not offering the best package they can offer? Not taking engineering challenges? What kind of Apple is this? And you all guys want that?

Just like with iPhones, the market has spoken. "Too small" is a real thing, and neither the iPhone 1x mini, nor a 12" MacBook meets a large enough customer demand segment.

Maybe it's because I do Product Management as my professional career... there are rational decisions behind every single one of these products, it's not because they're 'lazy' or want to save 'a buck'. When you're as big as Apple, you're not pinching pennies, you're after maximizing revenue. And Apple has more customer preferences data that anyone here on MR can even conceive of. And they use that to guide decisions.

 

[Japan Ricardo]

I absolutely LOVE the fanless design. It means the machine can be sealed a lot better do that dust doesn't get in. It never makes noise. It will be more reliable in the long run without mechanical components. And the truth is, Apple Silicon is so efficient it rarely needs a fan.

I have a 14" M1 Macbook Pro that work issued me. The fans rarely ever come on during normal use. The only thing I've done that makes them kick in are long CPU/GPU bound processes like video encodes. If this were a fanless Macbook Air, I likely wouldn't notice the lack of fans 95% of the time, and the 5% of the time I did, it would just mean the thing I'm doing would take a little longer.

I'm docked to a Studio Display right now, lid open so two displays active, doing about ten different things at once, both fans...

0 RPM.

Apple Silicon is absolutely groundbreaking stuff, and I'm still on the first generation! If work hadn't bought me this MBP I'd have the Air as it would do pretty much everything this does for a lot less money.

Exactly.

Sometimes I do online calls with people who have fans in their PCs and don't use a headset or separate mic. It sounds like an airplane taking off when their fan kicks in - and they don't realise.

 

[Analog Kid]

How could any one see it as a "feature" having no active cooling at al

Steve Jobs hated fans-- it plagued the Apple ///, the original Mac, the G4 cube and even Apple Park itself. Removing the fan isn't to save cost, it's deep in Apple's DNA.

That Time Apple Told Apple III Customers to Drop Their Computers

The Apple III had no fans or vents, causing heat to build up and chips to pop out of the logic board. Apple's solution? Pick up the computer and drop it.

www.techjunkie.com

Macintosh 128K - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Power Mac G4 Cube - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Steve Jobs' Legacy at Apple Will Be Felt Most During the Summer

Let's talk about air-conditioning for a moment.

www.inverse.com

 

[MayaUser]

OP has left the building...at least he admits he was wrong
I was very surprised for him not to know the 12" was fanless since it was a big PR back then..so lack of knowledge on your main topic basic tech

 

[MayaUser]

Take a look at Huawei Matebook X Pro under 1kilo. It uses ultra lightweight fans, and cuts down on the size of the pcb. It can deliver 40 watts to the cpu. That is m3 pro level power consumption

the 2024 version? that ultra 9 in that chassis will be a no go...i dont even know why is this option
physics cannot be bend
And we all know, that the Matebook X pro wants to compete with the Mbp..but probably cant barely make up with M3 Mba.
I had the 2023 version..sorry but so many compromises ..stop watching others that maybe its just PR promoting ...and use it yourself and if you dont like it, return it

 

[arcite]

There are two product lines: AIR AND PRO. AIR HAS NO FAN. DOn’t want fan noise? Buy the Air!

Wow….choice!

 

[Mike Boreham]

My M2 air has throttled under heavy load. In this case exporting a thousand raw images to JPG with multiple adjustments per image. The bottom of the case gets somewhat warm, doing what the case is supposed to do. Again, this does not happen often. I suspect a PRO machine would activate the fans, maybe even throttle. The PRO may be a couple of minutes faster but to me that is trivial.

Exactly this. It is a common misperception that fanless Airs are not capable of sustained high load. They are. Yes it throttles by design, so takes a bit longer. If this matters get a Pro. I have done prolonged (hours) Chess analysis at 100% CPU on all processors On my M2 Air. The machine throttles to keep the CPU temp safe.

For many years any machine that “throttled“ was regarded as the work of the devil…and very poor design. That whole paradigm has changed with Silicon and it is now a deliberate and legitimate design choice for real advantages. It is taking a long time for this to be recognised by by the throttling-is-bad old school.

 

[TopToffee]

To me, the real reasons for Apple to remove the fan and market it as a feature are (1) forcing people to buy more than what they need (MacBook Pro)

if you’re doing work that would require active cooling, then it’s very unlikely the Air is the right machine for you.

In fact, it by definition ISN’T the right machine for you.

 

[Anaxarxes]

A) How could the Air with Intel CPU:s have a fan if it really was a space limitation? The M1 board is a lot smaller than the board in a Air with Intel CPU, given that they share the same chassis and battery size, there really shouldn't be a problem fitting a fan inside a M1 Air.

Okay, no Intel CPU has been in the current iteration of the Air, but the 12-inch MacBook had a fan and it was even smaller and lighter than the M{2,3}.

I really don't think space is the issue here.

B) Sure, most won't benefit from it. Most won't benefit from a lot of things in a modern computer. But it would really make a difference for some, and that is why think Apples is gladly keeping a fan out of the Air.

You said it. Most won't benefit from it, only some woudl. And the target audience is are light users.

For people who would like to have active cooling there is a base MBP that has a non pro/max version of the M-series chip for 300 more, had a better display, larger battery and more ports. What's the deal here?

 

[Elusi]

I would definitely accept a fan. I went Air for portability. A fan would not deduct from that.

Apple should probably stop touting this as a feature. They are essentially locked to ~8W heat output sustained in this range while competitors can go 27W+ with a similar size laptop. Right now it doesn't matter because these competitors don't have good chips, but imagine in a couple years when they do and Apple has to compete against that.

 

[snakes-]

For me being fanless is the one of the best feature apple offer with the MacBook Air. I love it quiet. some days ago my brother comes with his notebook and the first thing I notice was his fans..... so annoying.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

My MBA m3 always hovers around 45c-50c. The market for this form factor doesn't really focus on heavy workloads that will tax the CPU/GPU causing the need for active cooling. If you need to do that type of activity then get the Pro model with fans. I have both and the Pro I don't ever hear any fans. My Dell Docking station actually has a fan and I hear that every now and then.