Catalina on HFS+ - a HOWTO

[jackluke]

The system hangs on boot when replacing /usr/sbin/installer and OSInstaller in the 10.15 BaseSystem.dmg with those from 10.13.6. The install is successful and I can then ditto the files into the right places, but the device hangs on boot after the install is finished.

I'm trying to replicate my accidental success by installing from my active 10.13.3 install. If this works, I'll have some more info to go on.

Edit: It didn't work. I'm going back through my history to see what I did differently.

Conclusion: it’s still not working. Either I did something vastly different that time, or I didn’t erase the disk after the previous attempt. I can’t say and I can’t recreate my error. I didn’t save the terminal output because I wasn’t focusing on it. Ah well, back to the drawing board

Even if you create a working Catalina HFS+ installer or adding a manual script to pkgutil the Core.pkg to a target volume, then you still have to move Template/Device/ and Template/Users/ to the HFS+ / root, so the Installer won't automatize that process, as it was for Mojave.

 

[crazybirdy]

The System partition is created by OSInstaller and install all the pkgs to it.
The Data partition is keep untouched with /macOS Install Data/, and will be created some files by OSInstaller after Core.pkg installation ----- End install ----- as install.log shows.
If we want to create it manually, we need to know how to migrate it.

But still have no idea.

 

[Fishrrman]

Well, looks like no more HFS+ boot volumes for 10.15 and "beyond" (according to Mike Bombich).

I will continue to keep all my data (with the exception of email and a very few other things) on HFS+ volumes that exist on partitions (and drives) "outside of" the APFS "data volumes".

Assuming that we'll still be able to at least do that...

 

[crazybirdy]

Dev. Beta2
10.15 19A487l

I install it to MBR HFS+, and copy /System/Library/Templates/Data/* to /
It can boot to mouse cursor with gray blackground before first time setup login UI.

I think it's system partition read-only issue, if we can make it read-write, it may work on HFS+ now.

We need HFS+ System partition to be Writable=Yes.

10.14 HFS+ System, Writable=Yes
10.15 APFS System, Writable=No
10.15 APFS Data, Writable=Yes

 

[toru173]

Dev. Beta2
10.15 19A487l

I install it to MBR HFS+, and copy /System/Library/Templates/Data/* to /
It can boot to mouse cursor with gray blackground before first time setup login UI.

I think it's system partition read-only issue, if we can make it read-write, it may work on HFS+ now.

APFS System, Writable=No
APFS Data, Writable=Yes
View attachment 843611 View attachment 843612

How did you copy /System/Library/Templates/Data? Every time I did that with DP1 I got a KP on boot, something to do with userspace auditing. I wonder if DP2 has fixed some small bug?

In my reading I found that there is a known race condition in XPC (interprocess communication) that can result in some applications gaining privileges they do not have access to. I wonder if the one time I got this to boot I successfully beat the race condition, and they have tightened it up in DP2?

 

[crazybirdy]

How did you copy /System/Library/Templates/Data? Every time I did that with DP1 I got a KP on boot, something to do with userspace auditing. I wonder if DP2 has fixed some small bug?

In my reading I found that there is a known race condition in XPC (interprocess communication) that can result in some applications gaining privileges they do not have access to. I wonder if the one time I got this to boot I successfully beat the race condition, and they have tightened it up in DP2?

The contents of /System/Library/Templates/Data on db2 is different with db1.
I did nothing different as db1 on Mojave, apple just makes it happen.

 

[toru173]

The content of /System/Library/Templates/Data on db2 is different with db1.
I did nothing different as db1 on Mojave, apple just makes it happen.

Looks like I need dp2 then! I nearly had a bootable system with dp1, so I'll go and download...

 

[jackluke]

Dev. Beta2
10.15 19A487l

I install it to MBR HFS+, and copy /System/Library/Templates/Data/* to /
It can boot to mouse cursor with gray blackground before first time setup login UI.

I think it's system partition read-only issue, if we can make it read-write, it may work on HFS+ now.

We need HFS+ System partition to be Writable=Yes.

APFS System, Writable=No
APFS Data, Writable=Yes
View attachment 843611 View attachment 843612

From a real Mac if you boot into CMD+R (Recovery) and from a Recovery Terminal type: csrutil disable

I guess the System volume should become writable.

But I guess it's not that the issue, maybe you require the new @ASentientBot Catalina beta2 loginwindow patch.
[doublepost=1560845528][/doublepost]I mean extensions/frameworks/binaries and many other macOS system parts don't need to be writable to run, they just need to be read from the kernel and loaded in RAM.

So I guess it's no there your issue.

 

[crazybirdy]

From a real Mac if you boot into CMD+R (Recovery) and from a Recovery Terminal type: csrutil disable

I guess the System volume should become writable.

But I guess it's not that the issue, maybe you require the new @ASentientBot Catalina beta2 loginwindow patch.
[doublepost=1560845528][/doublepost]I mean extensions/frameworks/binaries and many other macOS system parts don't need to be writable to run, they just need to be read from the kernel and loaded in RAM.

So I guess it's no there your issue.

As redheeler's post, disabling SIP isn't enough to always make it mount as writable.

Let us try and see.

 

[toru173]

I need to move some stuff to my server to free up space for the download. Too many disk images. I won't have a chance to try for an hour or so

 

[crazybirdy]

I need to move some stuff to my server to free up space for the download. Too many disk images. I won't have a chance to try for an hour or so

Never mind.
We will still have beta3, 4, 5... lots fun in the future.

 

[jackluke]

As redheeler's post, disabling SIP isn't enough to always make it mount as writable.

Let us try and see.

I guess, disabling SIP from a Recovery Envinroment (only real Mac), then targeting the Catalina Volume from Recovery Startup manager or rebooting into a boot manager (apple boot loader or refind or other) after passing the "single user mode" stage, the APFS System should become automatically mounted as writable.

 

[crazybirdy]

I guess, disabling SIP from a Recovery Envinroment (only real Mac), then targeting the Catalina Volume from Recovery Startup manager or rebooting into a boot manager (apple boot loader or refind or other) after passing the "single user mode" stage, the APFS System should become automatically mounted as writable.

I hope so, but I don't have a real Mac.
We need @toru173 to test it later.

 

[toru173]

I hope so, but I don't have a real Mac.
We need @toru173 to test it later.

I have lots of spare Macs, but only one supported. My poor old, long suffering 13" 2014 rMBP.

Edit: I'm not counting my server, I can't take that offline!

 

[jackluke]

The content of /System/Library/Templates/Data on db2 is different with db1.
I did nothing different as db1 on Mojave, apple just makes it happen.

You're right they have changed again on beta2 the layout of APFS Data Volume, now there is no more a /Device/ main folder but all the contents are on the root (of the Data partition) together with "Users".

I've attempted following @toru173 guide in this way, starting from a working APFS Catalina beta 2 (label APFSCatalina the source and CatalinaHFS the empty HFS+ formatted drive):

ditto /Volumes/APFSCatalinaSystem/ /Volumes/CatalinaHFS/
ditto /Volumes/APFSCatalinaData/ /Volumes/CatalinaHFS/

then moved from /CatalinaHFS/System/Applications/ into /CatalinaHFS/Applications/

single user mode is working but after typing "exit" got many core pid crashes followed by these lines:
shared_region -------- dyld_shared_cache_x86_64 --------- owned by uid=99 instead of 0

so can't reach loginUI, try to chown/chmod extensions/frameworks but doesn't worked.

Got a slightly better result during Catalina beta 1 (when APFS Data layout was still on /Device/ ), but after this beta 2 I really don't think more possible booting Catalina HFS+ .
[doublepost=1560882128][/doublepost]Just trying from CatalinaHFS single user mode: update_dyld_shared_cache

since all these owner issues seems related to that.

It took 15 minutes to complete.

Response: Catalina HFS+ simply doesn't work.

 

[crazybirdy]

You're right they have changed again on beta2 the layout of APFS Data Volume, now there is no more a /Device/ main folder but all the contents are on the root (of the Data partition) together with "Users".

I've attempted following @toru173 guide in this way, starting from a working APFS Catalina beta 2 (label APFSCatalina the source and CatalinaHFS the empty HFS+ formatted drive):

ditto /Volumes/APFSCatalinaSystem/ /Volumes/CatalinaHFS/
ditto /Volumes/APFSCatalinaData/ /Volumes/CatalinaHFS/

then moved from /CatalinaHFS/System/Applications/ into /CatalinaHFS/Applications/

single user mode is working but after typing "exit" got many core pid crashes followed by these lines:
shared_region -------- dyld_shared_cache_x86_64 --------- owned by uid=99 instead of 0

so can't reach loginUI, try to chown/chmod extensions/frameworks but doesn't worked.

Got a slightly better result during Catalina beta 1 (when APFS Data layout was still on /Device/ ), but after this beta 2 I really don't think more possible booting Catalina HFS+ .
[doublepost=1560882128][/doublepost]Just trying from CatalinaHFS single user mode: update_dyld_shared_cache

since all these owner issues seems related to that.

It took 15 minutes to complete.

Response: Catalina HFS+ simply doesn't work.

Try this HFS+ installer maker. It's base on 10.12 OSInstaller, the same as dosdude1's Mojave patcher method.
The installer will install to only one HFS+ partition.
After that, you need to copy /System/Library/Templates/Data/* to / on single user mode.
/sbin/mount -uw /
cp -Rf /System/Library/Templates/Data/* /

Also, we still need to make it Writable=Yes to setup user preferences and save it, as it's (NO WRITE) during booting system.
Maybe, need to patch kernel or something else.

And I think,
On APFS system and data partition, there are some settings between two partitions, it may not work if only ditto it.

 

[pippox0]

Merging the two APFS container (System and Data) and then cloning to HFS+ i got this

"Waiting for Dmos..." without any KP ....

some little steps foward in booting from HFS+

 

[jackluke]

@crazybirdy haven't tried yet your HFS+ installer, but have you tried to boot from CatalinaHFS+ in single user mode, then typing:

mount -uw /
exit

maybe this could keep mounted as writable the APFS System till the loginwindow and on forward.

 

[crazybirdy]

@crazybirdy haven't tried yet your HFS+ installer, but have you tried to boot from CatalinaHFS+ in single user mode, then typing:

mount -uw /
exit

maybe this could keep mounted as writable the APFS System till the loginwindow and on forward.

yes, tried it, no lucky.

 

[jackluke]

I've tried right now from a supported real Mac an HighSierra 10.13.6 HFS+ official (App Store) updated installation, I have one only installation inside an internal disk with EFI partition on disk0s1, it's totally working in RW and I get exactly from verbose mode (-v) this line at each boot:

** /dev/rdisk0s2 (NO WRITE)

I guess it is a standard verbose line present in any HFS+ OSX installation.
So I'd exclude that is the issue of Catalina HFS+ for not booting.

 

[toru173]

I've tried right now from a supported real Mac an HighSierra 10.13.6 HFS+ official (App Store) updated installation, I have one only installation inside an internal disk with EFI partition on disk0s1, it's totally working in RW and I get exactly from verbose mode (-v) this line at each boot:

** /dev/rdisk0s2 (NO WRITE)

I guess it is a standard verbose line present in any HFS+ OSX installation.
So I'd exclude that is the issue of Catalina HFS+ for not booting.

The kernel mounts / read only, it’s up to launchd to remount it read/write. This is normal behaviour, so don’t let it discourage you!

 

[crazybirdy]

I've tried right now from a supported real Mac an HighSierra 10.13.6 HFS+ official (App Store) updated installation, I have one only installation inside an internal disk with EFI partition on disk0s1, it's totally working in RW and I get exactly from verbose mode (-v) this line at each boot:

** /dev/rdisk0s2 (NO WRITE)

I guess it is a standard verbose line present in any HFS+ OSX installation.
So I'd exclude that is the issue of Catalina HFS+ for not booting.

I got something new, now I need to know "How to start to region setup screen and create user account" during booing after installation first time.
Anyone knows about that?

 

[pippox0]

Setup Assistant runs on new installation.
If you want re-run again, you have to delete
. AppleSetupDone.

Boot in single user, then type :

/sbin/fsck -fy

/sbin/mount -uw /

rm /var/db/.AppleSetupDone

reboot

 

[crazybirdy]

Setup Assistant runs on new installation.
If you want re-run again, you have to delete
. AppleSetupDone.

Boot in single user, then type :

/sbin/fsck -fy

/sbin/mount -uw /

rm /var/db/.AppleSetupDone

reboot

That's the problem.

When I upgrade from 10.14.5 to 10.15 db2, I can reach to login screen without any user information on 10.14.5, and can't login to 10.15 db2 as below.
It seems can't connect to user profile on 10.14.5

When I remove /var/db/.AppleSetupDone, I can reach to mouse cursor with gray blackground before /System/Library/CoreServices/Setup Assistant.app start.

So, now my problem is, it won't start the "Setup Assistant.app".


After some more test with HFS+ fresh installation and APFS fresh installation.
At the first booting.(the install.log shows.)
APFS two partitions, will start Setup Assistant.
HFS+ one partition, won't start Setup Assistant.

 

[toru173]

That's the problem.

When I upgrade from 10.14.5 to 10.15 db2, I can reach to login screen without any user information on 10.14.5, and can't login to 10.15 db2 as below.
It seems can't connect to user profile on 10.14.5
View attachment 843996
When I remove /var/db/.AppleSetupDone, I can reach to mouse cursor with gray blackground before /System/Library/CoreServices/Setup Assistant.app start.
View attachment 843995

So, now my problem is, it won't start the "Setup Assistant.app".

Does keyboard/mouse work? If so, you can at single user prompt:
- Mount toot read/write
- launchctl load /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.opendirectoryd.plist
- passwd root
- set a password
- touch /var/db/.AppleSetupDone

This enables the root user and skips most of the setup screens. See how you go!