European Parliament Votes to Support Right to Repair

[PickUrPoison]

It absolutely is a thing. You can’t walk into a coffee shop in the Bay Area with out seeing a Prop 65 sign. Everything in California gives you cancer.

OP said “everything is labeled as carcinogenic”. Like I said, that’s not a thing. Everything that’s carcinogenic is labeled carcinogenic—maybe.

“Everything in California gives you cancer.” Ummm, no, it doesn’t lol.

 

[ericwn]

Continue to read Jerry...

View attachment 1683167

"If the product breaks the consumer can use additional rights from 434ff, 474ff (= 2 years)".

Same story with the Dutch website. Apple literally tells you that you have audition warranty. In this case, 2 years in most EU countries.

They mention that you have consumer law in addition to the warranty which is ONE year.
I stated that apples warranty is a year plus that you get consumer law. So perfect, thank you for acknowledging that the warranty is in fact one year plus consumer law. Which you in your finite wisdom called a warranty and it isn’t.

Which brings us full circle to the fact that things that may seem similar to YOU are different in the real world.

I’ll quote myself after your initial false claim of two years of warranty:

Nope. That’s consumer law which is not a warranty.

A warranty is provided by the manufacturers, the 2 years consumer law thing is a legal matter.

 

[jlc1978]

I had heard of, but was not aware of how extensive the market is for bogus iPhone parts. In my experience, I had not run into many 'knock off' parts. I can across a few counterfeit hardware products, and loads of counterfeit software products. We lost a bid because the winner was quoting counterfeit software. When alerted to that, the purchaser stated 'Why do we care. We're getting what we want at the price we want to pay.'

Software and other media based products makes sense as it is cheap and easy to copy the softare and print bogus labels. Hardware is a bit more complicated and i would guess a lot of it is rejected legitimate product or overruns.

So is Apple actually aiding the 'alternative markets' by being so heavy handed in their parts and repair programs? Are they basically sustaining the very market they seek to eliminate? So do they need to get more heavy handed, or less. Interesting...

To some extent I would say they are encouraging it; but I think a bigger driver is the desire to get cheap parts; just like you example of the bid.

The fakes were everywhere. Even a local credit union. I was disappointed that for all their sturm und drang about counterfeits, and fakes, the perpetrators we identified were ignored. *shrug* But this is off topic. Apologies...

It's a big problem across many industries; and can be dangerous such as when a fake bolt gets used in an airplane or power plant. We used to pay much more for bolts with a pedigree going back to the source of the ore to ensure the bolt would perform as designed; of course that leads to stories of the government paying $50 for a bolt you could get for 50 cents at a hardware store.

 

[jlc1978]

No doubt there’s a line where regulations are overburdensome, but the repairability guidelines sound like self-disclosures. I suppose we’ll see more when legislation comes forth, if anything ever comes of this.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My point was, however, that overburdensome regulations are a benefit to entrenched companies as it acts as barriers to entry and forces weaker players who can't afford to comply out, lessening competition.

 

[UKgaryb]

Are you next going to ask apple to use a generic microprocessor and display too? Since car windshields can be replaced with non-Oems one, we should have that too. /s

Someone needs a education... That is not what it is saying, they are saying the companies should make their components available for other people to repair them, e.g. Apple should make their motherboards available so independents can repair.... It's called saving the planet... although you seem like the sort of person who doesn't give a f*ck

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I'm pretty sure you can't tell a company how to manufacture a product they produce. You can't force them to design something that is easier to repair by "law". Your free to make whatever you want so long as it complies with safey and it's not toxic or something like that. You can't make Apple or anyone make a product that is repairable.

Well actually you can establish a list of features that any company need to provide if they want to operate in a specific space. This happens in many products, automobiles, houses, airplanes ... so on and so forth.

The question is wether they should and what features need to be in place in order to safeguard customer interests and safety. Personal computing became a key component of modern societies. It’s more like motor vehicles rather than a coffee machine if you know what I mean.

The way people some people see how the world actual operates is far from reality, provincial even.

 

[NBAasDOGG]

They mention that you have consumer law in addition to the warranty which is ONE year.
I stated that apples warranty is a year plus that you get consumer law. So perfect, thank you for acknowledging that the warranty is in fact one year plus consumer law. Which you in your finite wisdom called a warranty and it isn’t.

Which brings us full circle to the fact that things that may seem similar to YOU are different in the real world.

I’ll quote myself after your initial false claim of two years of warranty:

Nope. That’s consumer law which is not a warranty.

A warranty is provided by the manufacturers, the 2 years consumer law thing is a legal matter.

1 year Apple warranty + 1 year additional Apple warranty (EU) = 2 years of warranty!
2 years warranty is empirically 2 years warranty...
Your product will literally be replaced or repaired without any hassle, I guess that’s very hard to comprehend for some

 

[jlc1978]

1 year Apple warranty + 1 year additional Apple warranty (EU) = 2 years of warranty!
2 years warranty is empirically 2 years warranty...
Your product will literally be replaced or repaired without any hassle, I guess that’s very hard to comprehend for some

I think the crucial difference is who is responsible for the repairs; the manufacturer or the seller. After 1 year, the seller is responsible for the legal guarantee; and must work out with the manufacturer who pays for the repair. The buyer doesn't have to pay in either case. One crucial difference from a warranty is the defect must have existed when purchased, and if it was not discovered within 6 months of purchase the seller can require proof it was defective when purchased. It also requires you to deal with the seller, so if you bought a Mac in Spain from a local store and live in Germany; Apple can refuse to fix it in Germany since they did not sell it to you if it dies; you need to send it to Spain although if the seller agrees it was defective when purchased you don't have to pay shipping costs.

So it is a bit different legally in terms of protections from a manufacturers warranty; although I agree in practice most folks won't know the difference.

EU legal protections for consumers

 

[ericwn]

I think the crucial difference is who is responsible for the repairs; the manufacturer or the seller. After 1 year, the seller is responsible for the legal guarantee; and must work out with the manufacturer who pays for the repair. The buyer doesn't have to pay in either case. One crucial difference from a warranty is the defect must have existed when purchased, and if it was not discovered within 6 months of purchase the seller can require proof it was defective when purchased. It also requires you to deal with the seller, so if you bought a Mac in Spain from a local store and live in Germany; Apple can refuse to fix it in Germany since they did not sell it to you if it dies; you need to send it to Spain although if the seller agrees it was defective when purchased you don't have to pay shipping costs.

So it is a bit different legally in terms of protections from a manufacturers warranty; although I agree in practice most folks won't know the difference.

EU legal protections for consumers

Well said.

 

[cosmichobo]

The EU is apparently considering new laws to force mobile phone makers to include easily replaceable batteries like how they used to be before Apple came along, assuming that the battery will die before the useful life of the phone itself.

Given that Apple is presumably (?) already going to have to comply with their USB-C law - this could potentially also now push Apple to have to make the iPhone's battery replaceable via a few screws instead of the ******** it is now.

Considering many people upgrade to the next phone simply due to battery life - this would have a great impact at reducing e-waste.

 

[NufSaid]

I have 3 places in my tiny town that does battery replacements.

So does this mean we have to have cars that have motherboard we are able to easily replace?

This is silliness.

 

[ilikewhey]

The EU is apparently considering new laws to force mobile phone makers to include easily replaceable batteries like how they used to be before Apple came along, assuming that the battery will die before the useful life of the phone itself.

Given that Apple is presumably (?) already going to have to comply with their USB-C law - this could potentially also now push Apple to have to make the iPhone's battery replaceable via a few screws instead of the ******** it is now.

Considering many people upgrade to the next phone simply due to battery life - this would have a great impact at reducing e-waste.

good, apple charging 90 bucks to replace battery is criminal imo.

 

[cosmichobo]

I have 3 places in my tiny town that does battery replacements.

So does this mean we have to have cars that have motherboard we are able to easily replace?

This is silliness.

It is silly that in order to replace the battery you need specialised tools which for most people means you NEED to pay someone to do it for you. How many other consumer devices require that?

This isn't a car... this is a phone. A couple of screws and you should be done.

 

[Alan Wynn]

It is silly that in order to replace the battery you need specialised tools which for most people means you NEED to pay someone to do it for you. How many other consumer devices require that?

Lots of them, or even more commonly, have no mechanism to replace the built in battery at all. Mostly devices that are very small (or have very little free space in their designs).

This isn't a car... this is a phone. A couple of screws and you should be done.

Curious, how many phones (or for that matter consumer electronics devices in general) have you designed. This is a trade off of style and other factors for repairablity. Companies have made phones that are easy to repair and upgrade, but consumers do not buy them (even on the Android side where they did not have to pick a different operating system to get one).

 

[cosmichobo]

How much of our planets' limited resources do we need to waste before people start caring?

 

[Alan Wynn]

How much of our planets' limited resources do we need to waste before people start caring?

Apple accepts iPhones for refurbishment and recycles those that cannot be resold. They use 98% recycled rare earth elements, as well as 99% recycled titanium. Making devices that can be opened easily has trade offs, that you do not seem to want to acknowledge.

 

[mrochester]

It’s consumer behaviour that needs to change, not the manufacturers:

45% of smartphone owners would rather upgrade than repair | YouGov

The coronavirus outbreak has caused a record drop in global smartphone sales – but Brits are not more inclined to repair their devices than they were before the pandemic

yougov.co.uk

as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

 

[Grey Area]

It’s consumer behaviour that needs to change, not the manufacturers:

45% of smartphone owners would rather upgrade than repair | YouGov

The coronavirus outbreak has caused a record drop in global smartphone sales – but Brits are not more inclined to repair their devices than they were before the pandemic

yougov.co.uk

as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

Going by that poll I would put most of the blame on the manufacturers. 45% of smartphone users would buy a new device rather than repairing, so 55% would repair. Those who would rather buy new could select one or more reasons for their choice, and 53% picked high repair costs. If devices were easier to repair, these costs would hopefully be lower and thus less discouraging. That is up to the manufacturers.

53% also cited their device being old anyway as a reason, which sounds more like consumer responsibility - though if we picture someone with a phone long out of warranty facing a $300-repair, buying new may be a rational choice rather than upgrade-mania.

 

[mrochester]

Going by that poll I would put most of the blame on the manufacturers. 45% of smartphone users would buy a new device rather than repairing, so 55% would repair. Those who would rather buy new could select one or more reasons for their choice, and 53% picked high repair costs. If devices were easier to repair, these costs would hopefully be lower and thus less discouraging. That is up to the manufacturers.

53% also cited their device being old anyway as a reason, which sounds more like consumer responsibility - though if we picture someone with a phone long out of warranty facing a $300-repair, buying new may be a rational choice rather than upgrade-mania.

Being able to do it yourself isn’t going to magically make the parts cheaper to buy. You can already buy cheap, rubbish replacement parts, that still doesn’t deter people from claiming they won’t repair because it costs too much.

 

[cosmichobo]

Apple accepts iPhones for refurbishment and recycles those that cannot be resold. They use 98% recycled rare earth elements, as well as 99% recycled titanium. Making devices that can be opened easily has trade offs, that you do not seem to want to acknowledge.

Here's me acknowledging them. Give me a fat iPhone.