European Regulators Will Soon Approve Apple's Plan to Open Up Tap-to-Pay to Banks and Payment Providers

[CiASpook]

I have to say that it's very interesting to read how some people here think that everything Apple does is the best thing for man kind. And if Apple is forced to open up the world will end.

The walled garden of Apple is not the best thing ever. Yes it makes Apple ALOT of money but keeps innovation down. Your only allowed to innovate what Apple had set the limit to.

Forcing Apple to open up is great. Make it so across the world.

The banking system in the US might be from the stoneages. But in the EU and here in Norway that's not the case.

Hope Apple is forced to open all of it's closed systems. That way Apple has to focus even more on securing their systems and api's.

 

[I7guy]

I have to say that it's very interesting to read how some people here think that everything Apple does is the best thing for man kind. And if Apple is forced to open up the world will end.

The walled garden of Apple is not the best thing ever. Yes it makes Apple ALOT of money but keeps innovation down. Your only allowed to innovate what Apple had set the limit to.

Apple produces products that are consumer based premium products in a market where there is competition. Nobody has to buy an iPhone.

Forcing Apple to open up is great. Make it so across the world.

No it’s not.

The banking system in the US might be from the stoneages. But in the EU and here in Norway that's not the case.

Works for us, imo.

Hope Apple is forced to open all of its closed systems. That way Apple has to focus even more on securing their systems and api's.

That’s like saying hope you’re taxed more so government can provide even more social programs.

 

[CiASpook]

Apple produces products that are consumer based premium products in a market where there is competition. Nobody has to buy an iPhone.

No it’s not.

Works for us, imo.

That’s like saying hope you’re taxed more so government can provide even more social programs.

So you think that in the US where Apple has 89% marketshare on smartphones that it's an option to choose something else? That's cute.

Apple has as good as a monopoly in the US.

The fact that Americans don't trust the banking system and the government doesn't make it so for the rest of the world.

I look forward to Apple being forced to open their walled garden.

 

[Amstrman]

Will this open the NFC to other cards too?
Like a museumcard or librarycard f.e.

You can’t add those at the moment to wallet, you need to use your real card.

 

[flexwithmarius]

Yea… if that’s true I wonder how effective they are considering EU have the lowest fraud rates in the world and the highest security standards within the banking sector.

While the U.S. still uses magnetic strips because it was more expensive in the short term to implement chip & pin payments compared to the visa/ Mastercard fraud expenses.. while EU have long required chip and pin for well over two decades.

EU have required secure online payment verification, the U.S. have had no security improvements.

U.S. fraud rates are skyrocketing year by year, while EU have had it shrink for a decade.

EU dictated you need clear consent to collect private user data, while in the USA if you missed the ToS fine print in their toilet roles that the banks had they could probably do whatever they pleases.

Example I live close to the edge of two counties I would need to use two different card in your example and that sounds kind of clunky.

Well it’s private enterprises, nothing for the authorities to do for the separate counties private public transport companies.

Rather, the leadership of

The reply JUST BEFORE happens to shout out how in Norway banks are already getting out of Apple Pay.

Not surprising really, it’s just like that sweet free Delta retro games emulator: it’s on the AppStore in the Americas, it’s on AltStore behind a fee (for the store itself) in the EU

Norway operates vastly different than the US market. Not sure it’s gonna fly here.

 

[flexwithmarius]

If I have to open 4 different apps to use my CCs, this is a huge step backwards for users. I'm sure the banks will implement something as great as Zelle.

Paze 👀

 

[I7guy]

So you think that in the US where Apple has 89% marketshare on smartphones that it's an option to choose something else? That's cute.

100%. How many different smartphone manufacturers sell phones in the US?

Apple has as good as a monopoly in the US.

The courts dont agree.

The fact that Americans don't trust the banking system and the government doesn't make it so for the rest of the world.

Generalization.

I look forward to Apple being forced to open their walled garden.

I’m sure. To some people government intervention is nirvana. But it may not happen as you hope for.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Banks are regulated but fraud has happened to major banking institutions in North America. Since Apple Pay is not safe can you point to some stories of a general issue where the owner of an iPhone had their apple pay transaction go askew?

Unfortunately yes it happens on a more regular basis. Hopefully apple will fix the security issues.

Criminals Abuse Apple Pay in Spending Sprees

Apple Pay is the “easiest” way to make money with a recently developed type of underground bot which steals targets' multi-factor authentication tokens, one fraudster says.

www.vice.com

 

[I7guy]

Unfortunately yes it happens on a more regular basis. Hopefully apple will fix the security issues.

Criminals Abuse Apple Pay in Spending Sprees

Apple Pay is the “easiest” way to make money with a recently developed type of underground bot which steals targets' multi-factor authentication tokens, one fraudster says.

www.vice.com

That’s not abusing Apple Pay. It’s abusing the phones security and lack of bank card authentication. That’s a phishing technique that gets into the phone. From there other access is possible. However this article is from 2022. iOS 17.3 and later have protections against this.

And further i call bs on this. When I added my cards to Apple Pay a phone call to the bank was required. Banks that allow cards to be added to Apple Pay without verification should be shut down.

 

[mdatwood]

Why would you expect any of those things?

I certainly have a degree of trust in Apple, but I also trust financial institutions to be able to handle financial transactions.

Have you seen or used the disaster that is Zelle? That's what you get when banks are in control of technology.

 

[echopulse]

I really hope that doesn’t arrive to the west, or at least under rules that “they have to be on both Apple Wallet and elsewhere, can’t inconvenience customers on purpose”.

Or if they do, then only on Android or something, that way a customer really has a choice: do I want a centralized contactless wallet experience? Or do I want a “I can do with my phone whatever I want” bunch of separate wallets and stores experience?

There is no consumer demand for this NFC is already open on Android. But have any banks implemented it? None that I have heard of. And I haven't heard anyone asking for it either. So I doubt anyone will use a banks wallet unless they force them too.

 

[gregmancuso]

So what do EU consumer have to gain by gaining access to NFC? Well 1-5 seconds and a lot of functionality that we have had access to for sometimes more then a decade.

Serious question - what “lot of other functionality”? We are talking about tap to pay. What functionality can any one bank off in their dedicated app for payment that I cannot already get in Apple Wallet?

I can see recent transactions. I can see balance outstanding. I can see card details should I need them.

The only benefit is to the bank and / or the merchant. The bank can get the POS details and not just Tx total. So they get more info about me to monetize. I get nothing from that.

The banks don’t have to share part of the transaction fee (0.25% to Apple while they keep the remaining 2.75-5.75%. Again, I get nothing out of this.

Well, I do get added aggravation of multiple apps. Added frustration of dealing with different payment methods in the apps. And added disgust in now being forced to open the (sometimes) miserable bank-developed apps. One of my banks puts online and full page pop ads in the app. Another is a feature restricted web form with rhe look and feel of circa 1992 ActiveX pages. Gee. Thanks.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I am unclear as to the benefits for consumers of this move by the EU. The last time the EU did something in this space (severely restricted interchange fees) merchant prices to the consumer didn't fall a single penny, the protestations of big business that it would be otherwise notwithstanding.

Well how is that bad? If the merchant pays less money to the banks and payment networks, then we as the consumers will get better goods and services.

 

[Shirasaki]

Sooner Apple adds a global bank or credit card company the better.

Even better, let Apple be the sole leader of the entire world (including China btw). Why settle on only ruling the financial sector?

you can look at it from two perspectives, the more points of entry for user data could mean more weaknesses, or you can have one area to protect.

or having one point to protect means only one point to attack. I personally like the idea of fortifying one Point of entry then having to worry about if someone else left the back door open.

You can also look at it from the other two perspectives. Apple controlling everything means they have a gigantic target at their back. As soon as Apple falls, all falls.

Spread them out, one fail only affects a subset of users rather than literally everyone. There’s a reason even in industries of national security importance like electricity, water and gas supply, we see several distributors across Australia, not to mention a couple dozen retailers.

I prefer not putting everything in one basket and only provide one point of entry/exit. I like having backups.

 

[Beautyspin]

Banks are regulated but fraud has happened to major banking institutions in North America. Since Apple Pay is not safe can you point to some stories of a general issue where the owner of an iPhone had their apple pay transaction go askew?

The only thing that Apple does is tokenize the card details. Since VISA, American Express, Thales, Google Pay, Samsung Pay also tokenize the card details and do it for free, what is the extra security that Apple is adding? Also, frauds happen because of social engineering mostly and how will Apple Pay prevent it? Apple adds nothing or else banks in the EU would not have complained against it nor would there have been a class action suit against Apple.

 

[Robert.Walter]

Even better, let Apple be the sole leader of the entire world (including China btw). Why settle on only ruling the financial sector?

You can also look at it from the other two perspectives. Apple controlling everything means they have a gigantic target at their back. As soon as Apple falls, all falls.

Spread them out, one fail only affects a subset of users rather than literally everyone. There’s a reason even in industries of national security importance like electricity, water and gas supply, we see several distributors across Australia, not to mention a couple dozen retailers.

I prefer not putting everything in one basket and only provide one point of entry/exit. I like having backups.

SPOF is a thing but if bigger can translate into safer I prefer apple over competing solutions.

Your suggestion of Apple in charge of everything might seem nice but it’s ridiculous, impractical and lousy sarcasm that makes no cogent point.

 

[Robert.Walter]

Although banks pay a transaction fee to Apple, they do benefit because it increases card usage and reduces cash usage. Customers benefit from a faster, more secure and streamlined purchase flow, and banks benefit from increased card usage as a result, reduced fraud and better security.


It's been shown repeatedly that Apple customers on average have higher incomes and are more willing to spend, so banks also benefit from those people spending more money, more frequently using Apple Pay.

My credit union was trying to grow and find younger more affluent customers. I wrote ceo a letter suggesting Apple Pay. It took them about 4 years to implement it. By giving up the 1st mover advantage they lost the opportunity. They also lost me and my family to a different credit union which offered both Apple Pay and 2FA for login to site and app. In the end the credit union my dad helped form in the mid 1960’s was taken over by a larger CU.

 

[haemolysis]

Our courts decided not to force this in Australia, and as much as I was a little disappointed, I think the reasoning at the time was correct: Apple wasn’t (at that time) operating a monopolistic market and there were many fledgling technologies popping up and any one of them could have taken off at the time - everything from QR code payments to wearables, etc.

However, it is clear now that NFC is the winner, and once again Apple holds the keys.

And now they’re opening it up in… Europe only. Womp womp. Lose for us.

 

[Shirasaki]

SPOF is a thing but if bigger can translate into safer I prefer apple over competing solutions.

Your suggestion of Apple in charge of everything might seem nice but it’s ridiculous, impractical and lousy sarcasm that makes no cogent point.

Not so ridiculous when seemingly every time something Apple comes into criticism for their business practices, there are always heaps of people jumping out defending Apple saying what they do is “for privacy“, ”superior”, “government doesn’t know what they are doing” and blah blah. It’s not that hard to form an impression that sizeable numbers of people want Apple to control everything they currently are involved in the tech world, hence that “Apple might as well be the leader of the whole world“ if that is what those people want.

 

[Shirasaki]

And now they’re opening it up in… Europe only. Womp womp. Lose for us.

To this day I still need to carry a separate Opal card which needs regular recharge to travel around Sydney using public transport. Either Transport NSW doesn’t want to open up or Apple doesn’t want to cooperate…
NFC isn’t that rocket science to me today.

 

[DaPhox]

That’s like saying hope you’re taxed more so government can provide even more social programs.

Well, europeans are begging for banking & government supervision, so its probably the case.

 

[emulator]

Every bank will have their own wallet app eventually (they're hardly going to join forces) that works and looks different, and instead of simply double-tapping the side button to open a single Wallet and swiping to switch cards when making a purchase, you'll have to unlock your phone, locate the specific bank wallet, then open that to select your payment card. Far less user-friendly.

No doubt they'll be tracking your purchases much more closely, probably other data too.

Personally, I prefer a single, universal Wallet app that isn't provided by any particular bank.

They will learn (and lose lots of money). Many US banks had their own tap to pay wallet apps many years ago, remember i.e. Chase Pay on android? They disappeared in a few years since nobody used them.

 

[nottorp]

Apple produces products that are consumer based premium products in a market where there is competition. Nobody has to buy an iPhone.

Do look up "duopoly". You basically have two choices when buying a mobile phone, iOS or Android. The least regulators can do is keep both software platforms equally open.

 

[mdatwood]

They will learn (and lose lots of money). Many US banks had their own tap to pay wallet apps many years ago, remember i.e. Chase Pay on android? They disappeared in a few years since nobody used them.

Apple Pay and Google Pay drove NFC phone payment adoption in the US. Prior to that, the bad apps directly from the banks were a pain to use so no one used them.

 

[I7guy]

Do look up "duopoly". You basically have two choices when buying a mobile phone, iOS or Android. The least regulators can do is keep both software platforms equally open.

You buy a phone, not an operating system. There is no expectation in a free market to make all software identical in terms of functionality.