For the love of God, bring back Scott Forstall.

[threelions]

it's funny how many people here have no idea how large companies work. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING is the responsibility of one person. Stop blaming Cook and Ive and whoever else. **** happens, and then we live, get over it.

While bringing back Forstall may or may not be a solution you're very wrong when it comes to Apple.

With Jobs around everything and I mean EVERYTHING went through him, the design of every button, the size, shape and look of the screen and chasis, the way apps were designed and built.

The Verge mentioned this recently after they talked to some insiders and some ex Apple employees, with Jobs around you had a single focal point that everything had to go through you would get to go in and sit with him and talk through every stage of design. They say it's now massive committees that vote on design and builds. They no longer have sit downs with the CEO, there aren't even single focus points for each department basically too many cooks(no pun intended).

Oh and the CEO is where the buck stops it is always their responsibility in any company. So no people should not just accept whatever they are given, that's a terrible mentality to have in life.

 

[orioncrystalice]

iOS 6 was the Forstall swansong.


Observe the lists of all these amaaaaazing features and user reactions, then come back to thread.


http://lifehacker.com/5917484/the-new-features-coming-to-ios-6

http://lifehacker.com/5944961/top-10-secret-features-of-ios-6


Nothing ever changes. But I think if he was still around Android would probably be doing victory laps right now. Android is the OS still stuck on skeuomorphic features and gee whiz effects, whereas with iOS 8 the new Apple iOS has matured into a recognizable brand for the second time.

 

[Skika]

While bringing back Forstall may or may not be a solution you're very wrong when it comes to Apple.

With Jobs around everything and I mean EVERYTHING went through him, the design of every button, the size, shape and look of the screen and chasis, the way apps were designed and built.

The Verge mentioned this recently after they talked to some insiders and some ex Apple employees, with Jobs around you had a single focal point that everything had to go through you would get to go in and sit with him and talk through every stage of design. They say it's now massive committees that vote on design and builds. They no longer have sit downs with the CEO, there aren't even single focus points for each department basically too many cooks(no pun intended).

Oh and the CEO is where the buck stops it is always their responsibility in any company. So no people should not just accept whatever they are given, that's a terrible mentality to have in life.

There were major issues with hardware and software when Jobs was CEO, keep that in mind.

 

[blueflower]

it's funny how many people here have no idea how large companies work. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING is the responsibility of one person. Stop blaming Cook and Ive and whoever else. **** happens, and then we live, get over it.

I agree with blue rocket with this statement. Forstall is just the name brand for a certain team. Yes he has overall responsibility for signing off and ratifying whatever the team puts out and certifying it as great. Do I think he was actually writing code? No.

Huh? The buck stops with the CEO. That is his/her job and why they get paid the big bucks and big bonus.

While Timmy did not personally code the glitch, it's up to him to ensure apple has appropriate coding and regression procedures in place to mitigate this type of thing.

It's unlikely there will be any ramifications, but I'll bet apple will be looking at it's software development/testing and release policies going forward.

Agreed, I think what Apple needs is a new front man better than Forstall and new talented coders.

He let iOS stagnate and allowed Android to pass up iOS in features. By all accounts, he was very difficult to work with to the point that senior executives would not sit in meetings with him present.

He needed to go. We may not like the look of iOS now, but look at the tons of features that have been added since he left.

I agree too, when Forstall was involved iOS was more closed than ever. Now there is not that much differentiating iOS and android, particularly after jailbreaking iOS.

While bringing back Forstall may or may not be a solution you're very wrong when it comes to Apple.

With Jobs around everything and I mean EVERYTHING went through him, the design of every button, the size, shape and look of the screen and chasis, the way apps were designed and built.

The Verge mentioned this recently after they talked to some insiders and some ex Apple employees, with Jobs around you had a single focal point that everything had to go through you would get to go in and sit with him and talk through every stage of design. They say it's now massive committees that vote on design and builds. They no longer have sit downs with the CEO, there aren't even single focus points for each department basically too many cooks(no pun intended).

Oh and the CEO is where the buck stops it is always their responsibility in any company. So no people should not just accept whatever they are given, that's a terrible mentality to have in life.

Thank you, I think is that you need someone as "ANAL" as Steve Jobs we all knew he was not a nice guy but at least he usually ensured that what was leaving Apple was of a particularly high standard. Can we really say that any more? Bending iphones, numerous iOS 8 glitches, package boxes with cardboard cutouts and just iphone not iphone 6 or 6+ etc. Steve paid attention to EVERY detail.

 

[afsnyder]

This guy may have been an arrogant jerk, but he knew his job. We never had the major versions of iOS launch as buggy as 8 did. Yes, Apple maps was not great when it launched, but the rest of the OS was not a mess. Say what you guys want, he was genius when it came to software development. Apple should really find some way to bring this guy back.

iOS 5 was incredibly buggy.... iOS 6 had a failed maps app and countless random bugs. iOS 7 and iOS 8 were slightly buggier at launch yea but its been a week so I would say give it a month and if most of the major bugs aren't fixed, then say SCREW YOU APPLE I WANT FORSTALL.

----------

I agree with blue rocket with this statement. Forstall is just the name brand for a certain team. Yes he has overall responsibility for signing off and ratifying whatever the team puts out and certifying it as great. Do I think he was actually writing code? No.



Agreed, I think what Apple needs is a new front man better than Forstall and new talented coders.



I agree too, when Forstall was involved iOS was more closed than ever. Now there is not that much differentiating iOS and android, particularly after jailbreaking iOS.



Thank you, I think is that you need someone as "ANAL" as Steve Jobs we all knew he was not a nice guy but at least he usually ensured that what was leaving Apple was of a particularly high standard. Can we really say that any more? Bending iphones, numerous iOS 8 glitches, package boxes with cardboard cutouts and just iphone not iphone 6 or 6+ etc. Steve paid attention to EVERY detail.

Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone 3Gs... not exactly a sexy name as iPhone 6, although iPhone 6 Plus is reaching into Samsung phone naming territory.

 

[StoneJack]

iOS 6 was the Forstall swansong.


Observe the lists of all these amaaaaazing features and user reactions, then come back to thread.


http://lifehacker.com/5917484/the-new-features-coming-to-ios-6

http://lifehacker.com/5944961/top-10-secret-features-of-ios-6


Nothing ever changes. But I think if he was still around Android would probably be doing victory laps right now. Android is the OS still stuck on skeuomorphic features and gee whiz effects, whereas with iOS 8 the new Apple iOS has matured into a recognizable brand for the second time.

When I read it, I realized how good was Forstall as OS designer and quality control head. Yes, he made his mistake with Maps, but it was version 1.0 and I used oS X version 10.0 (that was a real mess), but gradually it improved. Forstall made great visual iOS for new smartphones, not the cartoonish iOS7-8; and OS in his days actually worked, not like now.

 

[Richardgm]

Forstall gave us polish, innovation but eventual stagnation.
Craig is giving us bugs but features.

I'm torn to be honest.

 

[michelg1970]

Obviously I am not getting this thread.

iOS 8 is working great on my iPhone 5 and iPad Air. And I do like to Ive-look... less is more (keep on telling that to my wife) - same for Yosemite. Matter of taste.

Bugs? I didn't find them yet. But hey - maybe I am just a normal user and not a power user?

 

[Cougarcat]

It makes sense for software to be buggy in the early days, but iOS has been around for about almost 8 years.

There have been issues throughout OS X's life. 10.3 and 10.5 both had data loss bugs. Say what you will about 8.0.1, at least the damage it does is reversible.

I just think there are lots of people wearing rose-tinted glasses in these forums. I wonder if Gil Amelio had been a good CEO, people would have been pining for him to come back when OS X was released.

 

[cammyg123]

The OS is crap, but hey... at least there are TONS of features.

This is exactly what Apple NEVER did and now does, and nothing works right because of it.

Great point, I'd rather have quality features over the quantity of them. And Apple has moved away from that.

And to be honest, iOS back in the day, not only had quality features, it had that quantity as well, and that was when iOS was at the peak.

Totally agree with your statement.

 

[Richardgm]

maybe I am just a normal user and not a power user?

Do you just make phone calls?

Then again, I made a call once and the key-press tone kept sounding. Had to kill the phone app so it would stop.

 

[naasrd]

Obviously I am not getting this thread.

iOS 8 is working great on my iPhone 5 and iPad Air. And I do like to Ive-look... less is more (keep on telling that to my wife) - same for Yosemite. Matter of taste.

Bugs? I didn't find them yet. But hey - maybe I am just a normal user and not a power user?

I agree, while yesterday's fiasco needs an urgent explanation, I've experienced no issues what so ever with iOS 8 - and with the Yosemite beta.

 

[cammyg123]

Obviously I am not getting this thread.

iOS 8 is working great on my iPhone 5 and iPad Air. And I do like to Ive-look... less is more (keep on telling that to my wife) - same for Yosemite. Matter of taste.

Bugs? I didn't find them yet. But hey - maybe I am just a normal user and not a power user?

I love the Ive look as well, but the stability of Forstall and the quality during that time was not even comparable to it.

Some people want quality, some people want quantity, and smart people want both at a happy medium.

 

[iolinux333]

I strongly disagree.

Apple is first and foremost a fashion company, so they should hire more experts in fashion, in areas like clothing, jewelry, and household furnishings.

Also, Apple is loosing it's coolness factoring with the younger generations, so they should hire more rappers and also sports stars. Especially soccer pros who can lead the company in a new direction.

They have a lot of money and can afford all of these things they need to stop being so greedy.

 

[7enderbender]

He let iOS stagnate and allowed Android to pass up iOS in features. By all accounts, he was very difficult to work with to the point that senior executives would not sit in meetings with him present.

He needed to go. We may not like the look of iOS now, but look at the tons of features that have been added since he left.

Thing is that many of us are happy without those "features". I just need my devices to work not to be more colorful and full of "fun stuff". Gee, I'd be happy to go back to Blackberry if that was still a realistic option. Their stuff just worked and there wasn't a de facto forced upgrade every other week.

I'm sick of relearning how to use my phone and my Mac constantly. Make it work, keep it simple and leave me alone. I don't care who runs the show there now and there were always annoying/snobby issues with Apple (which is why I'm a late adopter if not for Windows 8...). But it's getting worse. Bendy phones that are too bif and too thin, sucky battery life, mediocre email management, and constant nagging about upgrades and stuff. Enough already.

 

[StoneJack]

Bring Forstall back for CEO.

 

[7enderbender]

I agree, while yesterday's fiasco needs an urgent explanation, I've experienced no issues what so ever with iOS 8 - and with the Yosemite beta.

Sure, no issues. Just like there were never any issues with iOS7 and Mavericks. Nothing to see here, move along...

Meanwhile, I still have to constantly reload web site in Safari because things hang, Wifi on my new MacBook doesn't reconnect automatically, and Apple Mail is and always was unreliable at times for push mail.

And I very much doubt any of that is getting addressed in the new versions since the clowns at the helm are mostly concerned with chasing after trends, and how things look. The original idea was that form follows function. Now that is reverse. And no, there is no way out because all available alternative devices and systems suck at least as much if not more.

 

[Paradoxally]

-deleted-

 

[C DM]

It makes sense for software to be buggy in the early days, but iOS has been around for about almost 8 years.

That's not really how software works. Unless you mean in 8 years they only released patches to keep on addressing issues in the first version and we are on something like iOS 1.0.42 then perhaps.

 

[bahndoos]

quality might be higher with forstall but Craig is giving iOS users the features they've always wished.. i go for craig

I like Craig too, but he needs to give at least as much attention to iOS as he does to his hair...

 

[iolinux333]

They say it's now massive committees that vote on design and builds. They no longer have sit downs with the CEO, there aren't even single focus points for each department basically too many cooks(no pun intended).

And this is what eventually kills most formerly great organizations. Bureaucracy. Except for government because everyone has to buy what they're selling lol.

Apple, the new GM? That's probably not such a great analogy, but if you had told anyone 20 years ago that blue chip GM was going to go under soon, when they were the LARGEST RICHEST FINANCIAL ENTITY ON EARTH, they would have thought you were a nut.

People got fed up with GM and cars built by committees with inclusiveness goals (Pontiac Aztec). Will people keep eating Apple or are they getting full?

 

[bahndoos]

-deleted-

Agreed. Apple is not fashionable, per se. Apple made tech fashionable.

 

[iolinux333]

Ya know, I was just thinking about it.


What if the board did just

Put TC back as the chief bean counter

and make Forestall CEO?

What the heck not? Because there might be some craziness? It would be more fun than tired old products continually redesigned by committee.

We might actually start seeing some neat stuff come out of development again.

 

[X-X]

What if the board did just

Put TC back as the chief bean counter

and make Forestall CEO?

That's why Cook fired him. The press already called Forstall "Apple's CEO in waiting" - a threat to Cook.

 

[SusanK]

This guy may have been an arrogant jerk, but he knew his job. We never had the major versions of iOS launch as buggy as 8 did. Yes, Apple maps was not great when it launched, but the rest of the OS was not a mess. Say what you guys want, he was genius when it came to software development. Apple should really find some way to bring this guy back.

I agree. Just ordered a mid 2012 MBA from the refurb site. ML and iOS 6 is as far as I go until they get the software issues up to par, if that ever happens.