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StoneJack

macrumors 68020
Dec 19, 2009
2,453
1,545
That's why Cook fired him. The press already called Forstall "Apple's CEO in waiting" - a threat to Cook.

Forstall created completely new divisions for Apple: iPads, iPhones, oversaw their development, hardware, software, that brought BILLIONS for Apple.

And he was fired for beta version of the map.
 

cmichaelb

macrumors 68020
Aug 6, 2008
2,280
740
Italy
Thing is that many of us are happy without those "features". I just need my devices to work not to be more colorful and full of "fun stuff". Gee, I'd be happy to go back to Blackberry if that was still a realistic option. Their stuff just worked and there wasn't a de facto forced upgrade every other week.

I'm sick of relearning how to use my phone and my Mac constantly. Make it work, keep it simple and leave me alone. I don't care who runs the show there now and there were always annoying/snobby issues with Apple (which is why I'm a late adopter if not for Windows 8...). But it's getting worse. Bendy phones that are too bif and too thin, sucky battery life, mediocre email management, and constant nagging about upgrades and stuff. Enough already.

Well, I can understand some level of frustration when there are issues. But relearning to use your Mac seems a bit exaggerated. I'm a recent convert but have used OSX in previous forms many times and I did not have any big learning curve issues from previous versions. In fact, I've fallen in love with Automator.

I've been much happier with my phone since Apple decided they needed to modernize it's features. Fun stuff? I don't find widgets, extensions, control center, slomo video, etc. necessarily as fun( okay, maybe slomo ), but quite practical and useful. My phone is much easier to use and useful. It's not perfect by ANY means, but what is?

I guess its not for everyone but the good thing is - there's other options available. Why isn't Blackberry an option? By all accounts, the software seems pretty good. I was quiet fond of my old Blackberry.
 

StoneJack

macrumors 68020
Dec 19, 2009
2,453
1,545
Why do you think he was fired? The real reason. Maps was just a bullet for the gun.

Heck, Ive could't create a simple large phone without ugly lines on back (he was good on MBA and others).

Forstall created whole HARDWARE and SOFTWARE divisions and oversaw their design, which has been best in its class (actually better than these cartoonish iOS7).
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
I agree. Just ordered a mid 2012 MBA from the refurb site. ML and iOS 6 is as far as I go until they get the software issues up to par, if that ever happens.

Good luck with back to the future. IOS 6 is like taking a horse and buggy on the Nurburgring compared to a modern race car.

IOS 8 is pretty much polished. I'm running 8.0.1 and it basically fixed most of the glitches of the GM and the battery life is way better than it ever was on IOS 7.
 

Sonmi451

Suspended
Aug 28, 2014
792
385
Tesla
This guy may have been an arrogant jerk, but he knew his job. We never had the major versions of iOS launch as buggy as 8 did. Yes, Apple maps was not great when it launched, but the rest of the OS was not a mess. Say what you guys want, he was genius when it came to software development. Apple should really find some way to bring this guy back.

How do you know anything about this man, what his contributions were, and what his faults were? There is no way of knowing what he did or didn't do with Apple. He is probably neither a genius nor an arrogant jerk. He's gone. Complaining here isn't going to bring him back or make any difference.
 

rtomyj

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2012
812
753
It makes sense for software to be buggy in the early days, but iOS has been around for about almost 8 years.

Oh no... Please tell me you don't actually think that... Have you ever coded? If yes, let me ask this; have you ever done something that broke an already working method or class? If you haven't you are either a lier OR the best programmer in the world.
 

ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
2,301
875
And this is what eventually kills most formerly great organizations. Bureaucracy. Except for government because everyone has to buy what they're selling lol.

Apple, the new GM? That's probably not such a great analogy, but if you had told anyone 20 years ago that blue chip GM was going to go under soon, when they were the LARGEST RICHEST FINANCIAL ENTITY ON EARTH, they would have thought you were a nut.

People got fed up with GM and cars built by committees with inclusiveness goals (Pontiac Aztec). Will people keep eating Apple or are they getting full?

Great point. The one thing Apple has going for it is that the competition isn't better. Until Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc make a better phone Apple will still be on top even if the products aren't as good as they used to be.
 

CB1234

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2012
784
491
Dubai, UAE
How do you know anything about this man, what his contributions were, and what his faults were? There is no way of knowing what he did or didn't do with Apple. He is probably neither a genius nor an arrogant jerk. He's gone. Complaining here isn't going to bring him back or make any difference.

If you read through all the posts from the members talking about detailedinner workings of Apple and it's top brass, you could imagine yourself sitting in the boardroom at Cupertino.....

Also a lot of them know Steve jobs personally, as they seem to know what Steve would OR would not have allowed to be released.....
 

StoneJack

macrumors 68020
Dec 19, 2009
2,453
1,545
I think in terms of abrasiveness, but also in terms of quality control, vision and leadership (as demonstrated by his great achievements in creating Apple mobile phone and tablet divisions) Forstall was closest thing to Steve Jobs among the whole Apple clique. And they removed him because as CEO he would definitely fire Ive for his design misses and Cook for launch misses.
 

SusanK

macrumors 68000
Oct 9, 2012
1,676
2,655
Good luck with back to the future.


Thank you! Personal preference.

I don't have the temperament and disposition for all of the new "features". The 8.0.1 issue is not something I could tolerate well. If no service appeared on my phone I would have been at the Apple store yesterday returning for refund.


It's just a matter of what the purchaser wants.

----------

Heck, Ive could't create a simple large phone without ugly lines on back (he was good on MBA and others).

Forstall created whole HARDWARE and SOFTWARE divisions and oversaw their design, which has been best in its class (actually better than these cartoonish iOS7).

Agreed. I hope Apple get back on track. So far they seem to be about making excuses.
 

michelg1970

macrumors 6502
Jul 26, 2011
288
120
The Hague - The Netherlands
Do you just make phone calls?

Then again, I made a call once and the key-press tone kept sounding. Had to kill the phone app so it would stop.

No I use my phone for phone calls, e-mails, whatsapp, kakaotalk, line, e-mail. newsppaer apps, youtube, calendar, passbook apps, flight apps, Making photos, sharing stuff, showing my keynote presentations through the new iCloud, etc etc. Like I said, normal user that does normal things that everybody else does. And no - i do not press keys relentlessly if i am not supposed to do that.

If I wanted to make just phone calls I would de-mothball my old Nokia.
 

Sonmi451

Suspended
Aug 28, 2014
792
385
Tesla
If you read through all the posts from the members talking about detailedinner workings of Apple and it's top brass, you could imagine yourself sitting in the boardroom at Cupertino.....

Also a lot of them know Steve jobs personally, as they seem to know what Steve would OR would not have allowed to be released.....

lol great post. you made my day!
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Thank you! Personal preference.

I don't have the temperament and disposition for all of the new "features". The 8.0.1 issue is not something I could tolerate well. If no service appeared on my phone I would have been at the Apple store yesterday returning for refund.


It's just a matter of what the purchaser wants.

----------



Agreed. I hope Apple get back on track. So far they seem to be about making excuses.

The apple 8.0.1 issue? You are either running a 4, 4s, or 5 with security holes as big as a crater. It's of course your preference to not update your O/S, but there is a fine line between preference and security in this digital age. IOS 7.1.2 has it all over IOS 6, but as you said it's your right, so enjoy.

Just putting it out there.
 

0000757

macrumors 68040
Dec 16, 2011
3,894
850
Forstall gave us polish, innovation but eventual stagnation.
Craig is giving us bugs but features.

I'm torn to be honest.

Someone doesn't remember iOS 5.

I've been using betas since iOS 5, and the iOS 5 release (for me personally) was the buggiest.

Maybe it's cause I've been using every beta since iOS 5, or maybe I just have really high tolerance, but I haven't found any critical bugs in iOS 8 for myself. I'm not denying they exist, I'm just saying I haven't encountered any (major ones, i've encountered some tiny ones that usually fix themselves almost immediately).
 

macUser2007

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2007
1,506
203
...
Ive in my opinion is loosing his touch.

Maybe without Jobs over his shoulder, he never had the touch.

The iPhone 6 design is OK, but not much different than the better Androids, like HTC.

iOS is falling further behind Android in user experience and it's unfortunately considerably buggier than KitKat.

With Android L around the corner, if the Android manufacturers improve their hardware design, Apple may find itself in real trouble.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Maybe without Jobs over his shoulder, he never had the touch.

The iPhone 6 design is OK, but not much different than the better Androids, like HTC.

iOS is falling further behind Android in user experience and it's unfortunately considerably buggier than KitKat.

With Android L around the corner, if the Android manufacturers improve their hardware design, Apple may find itself in real trouble.

Seems like a lot of reviews disagree with your assessment.
 

5aga

macrumors 6502
Feb 18, 2003
489
201
Gig City
Someone doesn't remember iOS 5.

I've been using betas since iOS 5, and the iOS 5 release (for me personally) was the buggiest.

Maybe it's cause I've been using every beta since iOS 5, or maybe I just have really high tolerance, but I haven't found any critical bugs in iOS 8 for myself. I'm not denying they exist, I'm just saying I haven't encountered any (major ones, i've encountered some tiny ones that usually fix themselves almost immediately).

completely agree with this.... iOS 6 was a godsend just for bug fixes
 

PNutts

macrumors 601
Jul 24, 2008
4,874
357
Pacific Northwest, US
Thank you, I think is that you need someone as "ANAL" as Steve Jobs...

Holy guacamole! You used the correct term! Kudos. All I hear in the forum is that folks are OCD about their phones. They're not. They're anal (retentive). From zee Google: "describes a person who pays such attention to detail that the obsession becomes an annoyance to others, potentially to the detriment of the anal-retentive person."

It's unlikely there will be any ramifications, but I'll bet apple will be looking at it's software development/testing and release policies going forward.

I still think it's a bad thing when I hear that the development team with X was pulled off to help complete other product Y. At Apple that's iOS and OS X. :) They have the money to staff appropriate and keep people in their expertise.
 

macUser2007

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2007
1,506
203
Seems like a lot of reviews disagree with your assessment.

You mean reviews like this:

"Moving past the ugly plastic lines on the back, however, there is another design issue on the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus that one critic views as an “appalling compromise.”

According to ZDNet’s Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, the protruding camera lens on the back of Apple’s new iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus is a hideous design detail that Apple should not have included on its new phones.

...

He continued, “This is ugly. Really ugly. ..."

http://bgr.com/2014/09/12/iphone-6-features-design-critique/
 

MEMSMaster

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2013
42
18
Good luck with back to the future. IOS 6 is like taking a horse and buggy on the Nurburgring compared to a modern race car.

IOS 8 is pretty much polished. I'm running 8.0.1 and it basically fixed most of the glitches of the GM and the battery life is way better than it ever was on IOS 7.

Out of curiosity have you ever read any of Jane Jacobs, William Whyte, or even Tom Wolfe's analysis of Bauhaus design and how it holds up over the long term? Every 20-25 years it seems we go through a phase of Bauhaus revival as each generation of architects, designers, and artists falls in love with it and don't bother to research why it went out of favor after the last revival. Bauhaus tends to look really cool for the first six months but have its dysfunctionality exposed thereafter.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Out of curiosity have you ever read any of Jane Jacobs, William Whyte, or even Tom Wolfe's analysis of Bauhaus design and how it holds up over the long term? Every 20-25 years it seems we go through a phase of Bauhaus revival as each generation of architects, designers, and artists falls in love with it and don't bother to research why it went out of favor after the last revival. Bauhaus tends to look really cool for the first six months but have its dysfunctionality exposed thereafter.

No I havent, but design philosophy whether it's tech or fashion tends to come in waves and repeat itself. Nothing stays static. As the saying goes everything old is new again and in a few short years we will be back to where it started, cartoonish skeumorphism. So enjoy the clean look it while it lasts.

----------


Not going to post the positive reviews you can find them yourself. But the phrase opinions are like ..... Comes to mind. Not everybody has to like the iPhone 6, that it sold 10 million the first few days is astounding. Maybe it would have sold 12 million without that negative Zdnet review.
 

thedeejay

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2012
1,338
51
Toronto, Canada.
I agree that Apple has slipped QA quite a bit since iOS 7 with their bugs; however that doesn't mean that forstall needs to come back. Many users actually like iOS 7. I thought iOS 6 was boring and sucked (although was very stable). I'm liking the direction Apple is headed. It's either you grow and move forward or get left behind.
 

macUser2007

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2007
1,506
203
...
Not going to post the positive reviews you can find them yourself....

Don't make statements without back up then.... The only glowing reviews are from dedicated Apple sites.

The fact is, this is Apple's poorest hardware design since the iPhone 3.

And iOS 8 is a mess.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Don't make statements without back up then.... The only glowing reviews are from dedicated Apple sites.

The fact is, this is Apple's poorest hardware design since the iPhone 3.

And iOS 8 is a mess.

You can go find them. the software company that makes it possible is Google. And, you are entitled to your opinion but the universe disagrees with you.
 
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