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“Foundation” discussion thread
- Thread starter Smartwatchlover
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☝️ I think they are trying to advance too many stories at once at different paces. The energy and emotion is not matching between storylines too, so the importance of events is getting lost, even when you pay close attention.
The books only focus on the events leading to the Seldon Crises, so all the other plots presented are being made up to support the implied history. So there's lots of ground to cover. e.g. Raych's "murder" of Seldon, the decay of the Emperors etc etc
Started watching this and though the first two episodes were really interesting, setting up something and had surprisingly high production values. They lured me with the promise of more Jared Harris, too!
Four episodes later I'm still waiting for it to get back up to that level again. Storytelling seems all over the place now. Always aching for more Lee Pace but Terminus parts are hard to sit through - these really feel like made for the small screen.
Thankfully I have never read anything written by Asimov so at least I'm not constantly comparing.
Four episodes later I'm still waiting for it to get back up to that level again. Storytelling seems all over the place now. Always aching for more Lee Pace but Terminus parts are hard to sit through - these really feel like made for the small screen.
Thankfully I have never read anything written by Asimov so at least I'm not constantly comparing.
Isaac Asimov’s Foundation trilogy is on my Mt. Rushmore of sci-fi epics, which Apple has completely bastardized. First we have the PC virtue signaling: taking one of the protagonists & turning him into a black female Han Solo wannabe, and obviously we need to see her getting laid. Which is par for the course with the rest of the paint-by-numbers Hollywood plot embellishments - the violence, trysts, blasting away at aliens, etc.
In Asimov’s universe, Salvor Hardin famously remarks “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” Now that Apple has turned him into Black Wonder Woman, she announces she’s going to the armory “… to see what kind of violence we can muster.” On the bright side, it’s good to see Apple handing out script writing assignments to 12-yr old boys.
In Asimov’s universe, Salvor Hardin famously remarks “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” Now that Apple has turned him into Black Wonder Woman, she announces she’s going to the armory “… to see what kind of violence we can muster.” On the bright side, it’s good to see Apple handing out script writing assignments to 12-yr old boys.
This is where not having read the source materials comes in handy. I had no expectations going into Foundation and I am very much enjoying the show so far. But I’ve been in the place many are where the show or movie doesn’t live up to the books or changes are made we don’t understand.
To me the story is building. I didn’t expect to get all answers right away. As someone who comply reads fantasy and sci-fi novels that span many books I enjoy when a story takes time to build.
That being said, Foundation is a show that would benefit from a Netflix type release. All episodes at one time. I think that would make it easier to go with the flow of the story. I will likely go back and rewatch it after season 1 ends and before season two drops.
To me the story is building. I didn’t expect to get all answers right away. As someone who comply reads fantasy and sci-fi novels that span many books I enjoy when a story takes time to build.
That being said, Foundation is a show that would benefit from a Netflix type release. All episodes at one time. I think that would make it easier to go with the flow of the story. I will likely go back and rewatch it after season 1 ends and before season two drops.
Ok, I'm enjoying the show but it's not really anything like what I had hoped for.
I had pictured the first season would reflect the book where there is travel to several many different districts of Trantor - I figured a huge budget would make this possible
Instead we skipped over all that, and the action so far is mainly in a palace and a remote town. Seems very 'what can we do on a budget'.
The empire to me seems much more diminished than I always pictured it in my mind. The emporer clones are a cool idea, but they seem to reflect a empire that has only recently started struggling in the last few hundred years (after the star bridge was built)
I always picture the empire as having stagnated and slowly started to decline well before 400 years ago.. a much bigger arc of history. Also the idea of the 'star bridge' as the symbol of the empires peak seems like a pretty minor accomplishment.
So..show not what I had hoped for, but really I'd have been surprised if it was. Its a fun watch, but hope they can get past this minor feud on terminus and back on to some more grandious themes.
I had pictured the first season would reflect the book where there is travel to several many different districts of Trantor - I figured a huge budget would make this possible
Instead we skipped over all that, and the action so far is mainly in a palace and a remote town. Seems very 'what can we do on a budget'.
The empire to me seems much more diminished than I always pictured it in my mind. The emporer clones are a cool idea, but they seem to reflect a empire that has only recently started struggling in the last few hundred years (after the star bridge was built)
I always picture the empire as having stagnated and slowly started to decline well before 400 years ago.. a much bigger arc of history. Also the idea of the 'star bridge' as the symbol of the empires peak seems like a pretty minor accomplishment.
So..show not what I had hoped for, but really I'd have been surprised if it was. Its a fun watch, but hope they can get past this minor feud on terminus and back on to some more grandious themes.
Ok, I'm enjoying the show but it's not really anything like what I had hoped for.
I had pictured the first season would reflect the book where there is travel to several many different districts of Trantor - I figured a huge budget would make this possible
Instead we skipped over all that, and the action so far is mainly in a palace and a remote town. Seems very 'what can we do on a budget'.
The empire to me seems much more diminished than I always pictured it in my mind. The emporer clones are a cool idea, but they seem to reflect a empire that has only recently started struggling in the last few hundred years (after the star bridge was built)
I always picture the empire as having stagnated and slowly started to decline well before 400 years ago.. a much bigger arc of history. Also the idea of the 'star bridge' as the symbol of the empires peak seems like a pretty minor accomplishment.
So..show not what I had hoped for, but really I'd have been surprised if it was. Its a fun watch, but hope they can get past this minor feud on terminus and back on to some more grandious themes.
IMO they're starting with 'Foundation" and working through. They are likely to have (must have) a story arc that is "How we got here" that would start as you had described (with the 6th book Asimov wrote).
Spoiler-free first impressions of eps 7 and 8, mostly focused on the cliffhangers because this show likes those way too much:
I think episode 7 had much better spacing, and the cliffhanger was very well done EXCEPT for the fact that the cliffhanger was spoiled as early as episode 1 and was not a surprise at all, and a bit cringy as a result. Fine. The Cleon story is still the most interesting
Episode 8, finally, I think the show has found its groove. They love cliffhangers, which is annoying, but this one was properly set-up, and while it was teased and set up with little hints here and there, it wasn't certain until the end. And I'm glad they went for it (while I was ready to be even more annoyed if the cliffhanger had been the scene just before, with Salvor..). Well done. Hoping the show will keep improving in this direction.
I think episode 7 had much better spacing, and the cliffhanger was very well done EXCEPT for the fact that the cliffhanger was spoiled as early as episode 1 and was not a surprise at all, and a bit cringy as a result. Fine. The Cleon story is still the most interesting
Episode 8, finally, I think the show has found its groove. They love cliffhangers, which is annoying, but this one was properly set-up, and while it was teased and set up with little hints here and there, it wasn't certain until the end. And I'm glad they went for it (while I was ready to be even more annoyed if the cliffhanger had been the scene just before, with Salvor..). Well done. Hoping the show will keep improving in this direction.
Lee Pace is absolutely killing it with this series. Really showcasing his talents.
My 3 storylines scoreboard:
| Empire | Gaal | Salvor | |
| 1x01 The Emperor’s Peace | ⭐️⭐️⭐️ | ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ | N/A |
| 1x02 Preparing to Live | ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ | ⭐️⭐️ | N/A |
| 1x03 The Mathematician’s Ghost | ⭐️⭐️⭐️ | N/A | ⭐️⭐️ |
| 1x04 Barbarians at the Gate | ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ | N/A | ⭐️⭐️ |
| 1x05 Upon Awakening | N/A | ⭐️⭐️⭐ | ⭐️ |
| 1x06 Death and the Maiden | ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ | ⭐️⭐️⭐️ | ⭐️⭐️ |
| 1x07 Mysteries and Martyrs | ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ | ⭐⭐ | ⭐️⭐️⭐️ |
| 1x08 The Missing Piece | ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ | ⭐️ | ⭐️⭐️⭐️ |
While my Gaal storyline score for the last episode maybe harsh, I think it can redeem itself. I suspect Gaal and Salvor's storylines will converge as Invictus jumps and finds Gaal floating in space.
Alternative/addition:
Seems like "jump tech" is to the show what "atomic power" was in the first book.
The Invictus becomes owned/taken apart by the Foundation, who acquire jump tech, and in season 2 jump tech becomes part of the Church of the Galactic Spirit, with Priests being the one who are able to interface with the jump computer that Salvor wanted to be hooked to in episode 8... This helps the Foundation/merchants (via Hugo) extend their reach in the periphery...
Well, whoever said that Lewis would do something great in his dying moments was right.
And in the paraphrased words of Seldon, this might be going somewhere good after all.
And in the paraphrased words of Seldon, this might be going somewhere good after all.
Absolutely. The Empire storyline is the most compelling one of the whole show.
Loving this show. Very well done with great effects. Good writing so far. Glad to see he’s come back, again, too. Should be interesting to see what happens next..
Not sure about the whole ‘I can predict the future’ storyline though?
Not sure about the whole ‘I can predict the future’ storyline though?
I've been rewatching the whole season in anticipation of the finale. I can say that the cliffhangers and the pacing is a lot better when you don't have to wait 1-2 weeks for the resolution of said cliffhangers... Perhaps for season 2 I'll wait for all episodes to be out and binge-watch.
"predict the future" is what you can do when you have massive data and a really really good statistical model. More data means that you can more accurately predict large movements and changes. With less data your predictions are prone to being offset by noise in the data. that is the different between being able to accurately predict what populations do, but only approximately what individual people will do. This is similar to the differences between weather forecasting and climate modeling. the larger data and longer term models are more accurate but you may still get a heavy snow that was not predicted.
I think Pezimak was talking about Gaal's and Salvor's non-mathematical ability...
Exactly, it’s an odd storyline to toe, seems unnecessary. On top of the predictions the math can make storyline.
still willing to see where this “feeling the future” thing will go.
Meanwhile just finished rewatching episode 8 and noticed one thing I hasn’t the first time around.
The Raven explodes after Gaal leaves. So Hari’s hologram won’t make it to Helicon to star the 2nd Foundation. OTOH Gaal still has the device containing Hari’s recorded consciousness… not gonna try to predict how that will end up but it’s interesting.
Meanwhile just finished rewatching episode 8 and noticed one thing I hasn’t the first time around.
The Raven explodes after Gaal leaves. So Hari’s hologram won’t make it to Helicon to star the 2nd Foundation. OTOH Gaal still has the device containing Hari’s recorded consciousness… not gonna try to predict how that will end up but it’s interesting.