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MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,337
3,728
In all honesty, the best practice against such tactics is a boycott. Buy from someone who allows you to repair.

That being said, using software to break the device on purpose because one did not buy your spare part should be considered a criminal act.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
24,037
Gotta be in it to win it
I've only done Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, and Honda. And Porsche 928 (in the back!). Never owned a BMW.

Still, I don't need a mfg toolkit to change a battery or similar items.
I understand that Apple makes things deliberately difficult. For repair guys too.
The point is most of the car requires special knowledge and tools. To fix the dust in a lightning port is way if it’s not broken. But whether apple makes fixing an iPhone “deliberately” difficult is something we could opine on.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,602
14,950
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
The point is most of the car requires special knowledge and tools. To fix the dust in a lightning port is way if it’s not broken. But whether apple makes fixing an iPhone “deliberately” difficult is something we could opine on.

I agree. Selective examples don’t excuse Apple’s behavior. It does demonstrate Apple’s design contains aspects to prevent 3rd party or user “fixes”.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
24,037
Gotta be in it to win it
I agree. Selective examples don’t excuse Apple’s behavior. It does demonstrate Apple’s design contains aspects to prevent 3rd party or user “fixes”.
It may demonstrate more than that...such as building an iphone to last. We can certainly debate the intent of Apple's engineering, hence my point about deep rooted issues in modern cars being nearly impossible to diagose -- excluding things such as fixing a flat or replacing wiper blades.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,602
14,950
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
It may demonstrate more than that...such as building an iphone to last. We can certainly debate the intent of Apple's engineering, hence my point about deep rooted issues in modern cars being nearly impossible to diagose -- excluding things such as fixing a flat or replacing wiper blades.

Can't agree on that at all. Mostly.
New cars I take to the dealer as I do not have the computer diagnosing expertise needed these days. Plus my days of diving into an engine bay or under a car is mostly behind me. Age does that. Tires, brakes, batteries ... that kind of stuff I still do unless I have a maintenance plan. :)

For Apple quality, not seeing it.
Over the years I have not seen the iPhone having better quality than Android - I buy flagship level. They (Apple) have been the costliest to fix. My biggest hardware issues have been with the iPad. When it comes to software, both OSs have issues however iOS/iPadOS is harder to fix on the user side. These days they are the same. Decent quality with decent software.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,425
2,260
Scandinavia
It may demonstrate more than that...such as building an iphone to last. We can certainly debate the intent of Apple's engineering, hence my point about deep rooted issues in modern cars being nearly impossible to diagose -- excluding things such as fixing a flat or replacing wiper blades.
Well modern cars are still fixable and diagnostic are easy to do for any mechanic.

Any bloke can change the battery, breaks, tires, engine oil, fuses etc etc.

Some things are harder for sure but they aren't made impossible with irrational expectations.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
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Gotta be in it to win it
Can't agree on that at all. Mostly.
New cars I take to the dealer as I do not have the computer diagnosing expertise needed these days. Plus my days of diving into an engine bay or under a car is mostly behind me. Age does that. Tires, brakes, batteries ... that kind of stuff I still do unless I have a maintenance plan. :)

For Apple quality, not seeing it.
Over the years I have not seen the iPhone having better quality than Android - I buy flagship level. They (Apple) have been the costliest to fix. My biggest hardware issues have been with the iPad. When it comes to software, both OSs have issues however iOS/iPadOS is harder to fix on the user side. These days they are the same. Decent quality with decent software.
To me apple manufacturing is top notch. Hence why I’ve seen iPhones last a long time and take some good abuse. This manufacturing means the phone is secured internally, making longevity better at the expense of repair ability.

I have had no hardware issues with iPhones or iPads since 2010 save for a defective 5s.

I guess two anonymous posters, two opinions. Whoda thunk?
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
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Gotta be in it to win it
Well modern cars are still fixable and diagnostic are easy to do for any mechanic.
As fixing an iPhone is easy for a properly equipped repair shop.
Any bloke can change the battery, breaks, tires, engine oil, fuses etc etc.
And a person can clean the lightning port, put in a case and screen protector.
Some things are harder for sure but they aren't made impossible with irrational expectations.
Well trying to diagnose an electrical problem with a bad circuit board or calibrating some component are impossible without the right tools. Some manufacturers like Toyota I believe require you to buy their analyzers.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,602
14,950
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
To me apple manufacturing is top notch. Hence why I’ve seen iPhones last a long time and take some good abuse. This manufacturing means the phone is secured internally, making longevity better at the expense of repair ability.

I have had no hardware issues with iPhones or iPads since 2010 save for a defective 5s.

I guess two anonymous posters, two opinions. Whoda thunk?
For me iPhones I had 1 (also 5S) with battery issues.

Original iPad Pro 12.9 - went through 4 for display failures and my latest Pro 11 for USB C port failure
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
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As fixing an iPhone is easy for a properly equipped repair shop.
Nope close to impossible as the parts are illegal to own.
And a person can clean the lightning port, put in a case and screen protector.
Oh please that's not even comparable. Cleaning the port and putting on a screen protector would be the the equivalent of cleaning your car and putting on new wax layer on the car.
Well trying to diagnose an electrical problem with a bad circuit board or calibrating some component are impossible without the right tools. Some manufacturers like Toyota I believe require you to buy their analyzers.
Would say I haven't heard of that. But then again it could be because it's legally required to available.
 
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robbietop

Suspended
Jun 7, 2017
876
1,169
Good Ol' US of A
I have replaced displays, fans, and batteries on MBPs. Just unscrewing, and unplugging, no soldering required.

Both types of people are Apple customers.
Yes, but what difference does it make whether 4% of the population wants to fix their device themselves versus 96% of people who just want a professional to do it?

Everyone loves democracy until they're on the wrong side of majority public opinion. Overwhelmingly, people do NOT care whether they could fix the device themselves.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,425
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Yes, but what difference does it make whether 4% of the population wants to fix their device themselves versus 96% of people who just want a professional to do it?
The difrence is the price you get for going to the professional. You want the manufacturer to be the only ones on the block or competition who also can provide the same service
Everyone loves democracy until they're on the wrong side of majority public opinion. Overwhelmingly, people do NOT care whether they could fix the device themselves.
Because buisness intressts aren't democracy
 

dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,244
1,867
No weirder than routing for government to over regulate things or rioting when their favorite football team didn’t win.
I don't think anyone is rooting "for government to over-regulate things", unless you're taking about the people who want to dictate what people can and cannot do with their own bodies and make it legally compulsory to follow religion. These people DO exist. The rest of us just want a sane society that attempts to curtail the KNOWN exploitation avenues in our systems.

People rioting over sportsball is indeed APPALLING.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
24,037
Gotta be in it to win it
I don't think anyone is rooting "for government to over-regulate things", unless you're taking about the people who want to dictate what people can and cannot do with their own bodies and make it legally compulsory to follow religion.
No I wasn't really talking about that, but that is a point.
These people DO exist. The rest of us just want a sane society that attempts to curtail the KNOWN exploitation avenues in our systems.
I agree, my opinion is there are bigger fish to fry than a USB port.
People rioting over sportsball is indeed APPALLING.
Indeed.
 

dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,244
1,867
I agree, my opinion is there are bigger fish to fry than a USB port.
Caring isn't pie. I think we can care about multiple things at a time without running out of room to care. Gatekeeping what is "worthy of frying" or not isn't something I'm interested in doing. I think people can judge how upset they want to be about things they know about, on an individual basis, if it's personal emotional capacities you're concerned about being burned out (like where things like doom-scrolling are concerned).
 
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robbietop

Suspended
Jun 7, 2017
876
1,169
Good Ol' US of A
The difrence is the price you get for going to the professional. You want the manufacturer to be the only ones on the block or competition who also can provide the same service

Because buisness intressts aren't democracy
Ok, WHAT DOES ME HAVING THE ABILITY TO FIX MY PHONE SAVE ME MONEY WHEN I GO TO A PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE OR CAPABILITY TO REPAIR MY PHONE MYSELF?

I AM SORRY I HAVE TO YELL, BUT YOU ARE NOT LISTENING
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
24,037
Gotta be in it to win it
Caring isn't pie. I think we can care about multiple things at a time without running out of room to care. Gatekeeping what is "worthy of frying" or not isn't something I'm interested in doing. I think people can judge how upset they want to be about things they know about, on an individual basis, if it's personal emotional capacities you're concerned about being burned out (like where things like doom-scrolling are concerned).
I think the governmental should worry about societal well being and yes government can run out of room to care.
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,016
9,609
Atlanta, GA
Ok, WHAT DOES ME HAVING THE ABILITY TO FIX MY PHONE SAVE ME MONEY WHEN I GO TO A PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE OR CAPABILITY TO REPAIR MY PHONE MYSELF?

I AM SORRY I HAVE TO YELL, BUT YOU ARE NOT LISTENING
If I understand you correctly, you are wondering why a professional would charge your less if Apple made the phone easier to repair at home. If Apple reduces the length of time required to make a repair, because they made it easier for someone to do at home, then the professional should charge you less money for the repair because it also takes them less time. And if one professional wont reduce their prices due to time savings, another will.

For example, having a professional replace the battery on an iPhone or Mac with adhesive pull tabs will cost less than having them replace the battery on an iPhone or Mac that use glue which they have to dissolve and then clean off.
 
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robbietop

Suspended
Jun 7, 2017
876
1,169
Good Ol' US of A
If I understand you correctly, you are wondering why a professional would charge your less if Apple made the phone easier to repair at home. If Apple reduces the length of time required to make a repair, because they made it easier for someone to do at home, then the professional should charge you less money for the repair because it also takes them less time. And if one professional wont reduce their prices due to time savings, another will.

For example, having a professional replace the battery on an iPhone or Mac with adhesive pull tabs will cost less than having them replace the battery on an iPhone or Mac that use glue which they have to dissolve and then clean off.
The prices have not changed in the years I have gotten professional work done. So, making it more complicated has not changed the price. Making it less complicated is not going to magically make the professional say "You know what, Apple made it easier for me to do my job. I will now charge less."

In fact, they might charge more to increase profit. That's the self-interest model of any market based economy.

Any basic economics class will teach you this. Even a pseudo-intellectual socialist understands this. Marx understood this. Adam Smith understood this.
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,016
9,609
Atlanta, GA
The prices have not changed in the years I have gotten professional work done. So, making it more complicated has not changed the price. Making it less complicated is not going to magically make the professional say "You know what, Apple made it easier for me to do my job. I will now charge less."

In fact, they might charge more to increase profit. That's the self-interest model of any market based economy.

Any basic economics class will teach you this. Even a pseudo-intellectual socialist understands this. Marx understood this. Adam Smith understood this.
I have used the same guy to replace screens on many of our iPhones over the past ten years. He definitely has different time-driven labor costs depending on which device and which service. For example, once Apple started gluing components to the glass back, his labor costs increased when replacing a shattered back panel on those iPhones, but not when replacing a dented or scratched metal-back. Economic theory taught in school is often at odds with the real world; this not something a pseudo-intellectual will tell you.

Or maybe you should consider using a professional who isn’t going to take advantage of you.
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,425
2,260
Scandinavia
That comment says it all.
Does it? You asked that their should be more important things for them to concentrate on? The question is still what do you think their job is? And it seems they already are taking care of more important things... Independently without it interfearing unrelated departments and fields.

This is Done by those who don't have anything more important to do, otherwise they would be working on that instead. Or can you think of somthing important that isn't delth with because of this?
More import things are dealt with localy anyway and not by EU.

Ok, WHAT DOES ME HAVING THE ABILITY TO FIX MY PHONE SAVE ME MONEY WHEN I GO TO A PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE OR CAPABILITY TO REPAIR MY PHONE MYSELF?
How? Well if you or I can fix the phone mor easily by just having access to spare parts, then a professional person at independent stores will have an even easier time doing it better at a competitive price compared to Apple and authorized stores. And they will become better from competition.

If a Profesional can buy the same spare parts legally without cannibalizing other broken iphones, then suddenly that broken port or singular chip on the motherboard that apple charges 600$ I respective of the repair need as they replace everything anyway and for a week for it be sent away and fixed.

Can suddenly become a 30min fix for 50$ or less. A fix that wasn't possible to do suddenly becomes available.

And I don't know about you, but I would rather pay 50$ and get service warranty instead of 600$ and service warranty for my 1.000$ phone.
I AM SORRY I HAVE TO YELL, BUT YOU ARE NOT LISTENING
I think you aren't listening to wider possetive effects. Suddenly 14 year old David and his friends can learn repairing phones for friends and in the future open a repair shop and offer those services. Somthing thst happens because they could learn at a younger age and actually had the ability to repair things.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,306
24,037
Gotta be in it to win it
Does it? You asked that their should be more important things for them to concentrate on? The question is still what do you think their job is? And it seems they already are taking care of more important things... Independently without it interfearing unrelated departments and fields.

This is Done by those who don't have anything more important to do, otherwise they would be working on that instead. Or can you think of somthing important that isn't delth with because of this?
More import things are dealt with localy anyway and not by EU.


[…]
Yes I think there is a lot of governmental overreach - when a governing body goes from protecting societal welfare to being a nanny and micromanaging our lives.
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,425
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The prices have not changed in the years I have gotten professional work done. So, making it more complicated has not changed the price. Making it less complicated is not going to magically make the professional say "You know what, Apple made it easier for me to do my job. I will now charge less."

In fact, they might charge more to increase profit. That's the self-interest model of any market based economy.
Just take this guy who built an iphone 6s from scratch at 300$ in parts. Somthing you can't legally do as the parts shouldn't be for sale.

The fact is they haven't made things easier to repair. Alot of repairs an authorized repair shop does is just simple diagnostics and sending it away to a repair depot, unless it's a simple acreen/ battery repair.

They can't replace individual parts or purchase individual chips and cables. They must ether buy " unofficial" parts that are mostly stolen from the OEM factory or parts that didn't pass quality control.

Parts from other broken phones that is stripped In order to repair something else because the ability to get a hold of the parts isn't possible. So instead of purchasing a 1$ spare part you end up buying 600$ broken iPhone hopping it that part you need isn't broken. Or ordering expensive parts from the black market.
Any basic economics class will teach you this. Even a pseudo-intellectual socialist understands this. Marx understood this. Adam Smith understood this.
No it isn't, otherwise everyone would ask the same prices apple does. But they don't because they undercut them.

You can increase the price to make a bigger profit while I can undercut you with a cheaper price and steel all your customers, effectively I make more profit by lowering the price and you make less profits for increasing the price as customers go to me instead.
 
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