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turbineseaplane

macrumors G5
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
14,835
31,719
Is it not a good thing to create a place that makes returning desirable?

Not always, no.
It's a little too simplistic to just say "makes returning desirable"

They "why" people are engaged matters -- a LOT
See "anything about Facebook in the last decade"
 

JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
It’s not always about money. PRSI was shut down and if you argue it was solely about money PRSI would never have been shut down. Banning and suspending members also falls into the same space. Loss of members equates to loss of revenue and if it only were about $$$, then members wouldn’t be suspended.

MacRumors does seem to want a thoughtful community experience. They probably do need to balance out the $$$ as this website is not a charity. I can’t possibly know all of the expenses but hosting fees, contributors etc. People need to be paid and bills have to be paid. So there is absolutely a component that $$$ do matter.
What is this PRSI? I can web search the details, but I don’t know what it stands for and the hits I get don’t make any sense.
 

JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
If people are returning because we are hijacking their emotional states to "keep them engaged" .. no, it's not a great thing (at least not universally)

It's too simplistic to just say "makes returning desirable"

They "why" people are engaged matters -- a LOT

See "anything about Facebook in the last decade"
The Reactions are a way to make conversations deeper, I think.

Just because it just happens to be a way to engage forum members more, doesn’t mean it’s the same as Facebook and IG.

The difference is intent. Does MR intend to hook users? Probably not.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors G5
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
14,835
31,719
The difference is intent. Does MR intend to hook users? Probably not.

Then they should consider hiding them and using up/down votes to rank topics/posts and call it a day

When they are visible, it's gets used as a sense of status (people are liking my post!) or ways to negatively impact others (trolling them...piling on, etc)

There's are a role for voting things, but when the results are visible, the brain hijacking gets going (both good and bad)

One could even have the post metrics visible in user dashboards (re: their own posts) if desired..
It's having the reactions visible on the posts themselves as you scroll through where the behavior changing occurs in real time.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors G5
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
14,835
31,719
The Reactions are a way to make conversations deeper, I think.

More divisive is more likely..
The quality of conversation is impacted by actually conversing, not reacting with emojis to posts we like or don't like.

As has been discussed - the ambiguity around what a reaction means in context creates confusion or irritation as much as contributing anything of meaning.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors G5
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
14,835
31,719
What is this PRSI? I can web search the details, but I don’t know what it stands for and the hits I get don’t make any sense.

 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,309
24,041
Gotta be in it to win it
An interesting point, but ultimately a different rationale at play there I think.

Having the emoji reactions (vs not) isn't causing massive moderator headache and workload.
That (moderation workload and issues) was the downfall of PRSI above anything else.

(I would imagine there was also some division in the moderator ranks about how to rule on many topics)
That’s why I believe not everything is about $$$ at the expense of quality.
 
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JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
Not always, no.
It's a little too simplistic to just say "makes returning desirable"

They "why" people are engaged matters -- a LOT
See "anything about Facebook in the last decade"
We’re on the same side then. The WHY does matter (only if you are actually talking about the HOW”

The WHY in the forums (as to user engagement = high), is partly because:

-well moderated by members and staff
-ability to have meaningful/fun/substantial conversations

These things lead to higher engagement and return visits, which SHOULD be sought out because it creates something that brings the owners joy, whether it is through passion or chasing dollars or both.

I guess Capitalism, if that can be introduced here without derailing the focus: if the product (Forum) is not constantly improved and managed, then the customer (Members), will find another place to belong.

Nothing wrong with introducing more ways to allow people to engage with others and talk about the products/company we love/hate (Apple).
 

JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
Then they should consider hiding them and using up/down votes to rank topics/posts and call it a day

When they are visible, it's gets used as a sense of status (people are liking my post!) or ways to negatively impact others (trolling them...piling on, etc)

There's are a role for voting things, but when the results are visible, the brain hijacking gets going (both good and bad)

One could even have the post metrics visible in user dashboards (re: their own posts) if desired..
It's having the reactions visible on the posts themselves as you scroll through where the behavior changing occurs in real time.
That’s a fantastic idea: I’m going to start posting my Reaction score 🤣 to flex and compete with others. Sounds like a solid way to make friends. Haha

It’s a people problem, right? Some will misuse the reactions, but a higher number of others will use and react (ha) to them responsibly. We obviously can’t tell people how to think and feel, so just like life we take the bad with the mostly good, and not throw babies (healthy and mature treatment of Reactions) out with bath water (harassing misuse of Reactions).
 

JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
More divisive is more likely..
The quality of conversation is impacted by actually conversing, not reacting with emojis to posts we like or don't like.

As has been discussed - the ambiguity around what a reaction means in context creates confusion or irritation as much as contributing anything of meaning.
Give me a like! I’m trying so hard. 🤣 maybe I’ll just do a reverse harassment and spam you with Reaction Hearts 🤣

Kidding kidding.

Very good point. The Reaction harassment can get bad and that is certainly a plague. Surely there’s a better solution than removing them, though.

Ambiguity is bad I agree (hence all my parentheses to ensure clarity). When someone gets a reaction with no follow up, it can be ambiguous.

But that should be on the person leaving the post to deal with appropriately.

Did you get a thumbs up? Well that’s pretty clear.

Did you get a Heart? OMG does this person love me???? No that’s ridiculous. It must mean it’s a stronger form of like. (Which is actually pretty genius for online interactions)

Did you get a laugh face? Well… did you say something funny? Great, it’s a laugh for your joke. Was it intended to be funny? No? Maybe you unintentionally said something funny… maybe the responder is The Joker and laughs at inopportune times. Maybe they are being a troll and laughing to harass. In the second and third scenarios, the Poster should just ignore it and move on. So what?

Was there a mad face? Well, that’s seems pretty clear… and so what? Someone got mad. Welcome to Internet.

How about sad face. That can be ambiguous too, but again it comes down to the OP and what an appropriate response was expected.

The thumbs down is actually very clear like thumbs up, and can be used to harass, but again so what? Someone is trolling and harassing online. That’s what reporting is for, and even if not reported… so what? It all doesn’t matter anyway, right? I had a thumbs down harasser lately and I just got bothered internally, didn’t respond or “clap-back” or follow them around like a crazy person throwing thumbs down in retribution…. No I just ignored it and the next day all better!
 

JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
Thanks.

Read the first page of the post. Wow I had no idea. I did avoid it like a few posters mentioned, and avoid political talks (mostly) online. I’m in the “probably for the best” camp. I do feel bad for the responsible ones that could disagree and still have civil conversations, like we’re having.

Anyways. Probably best not to say anymore! I don’t mind if you respond, but I won’t respond back in case it’s a reason to close this thread (and I don’t want that).
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,309
24,041
Gotta be in it to win it
[…]

The thumbs down is actually very clear like thumbs up, and can be used to harass, but again so what? […]
thumbs down is “disagree. Disagree seems to have a less emotional component than dislike. Some posters disagree with silly stuff, but all in a day on anonymous online Internet forums. I suppose it would be nice to have an explanation of why the poster disagrees, but one doesn’t always get an explanation of why the poster liked the post.

I suggested this before on this forum that if the color of the disagree was changed, to yellow for example, I think it would have a less emotional impact.
 
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JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
thumbs down is “disagree. Disagree seems to have a less emotional component than dislike. Some posters disagree with silly stuff, but all in a day on anonymous online Internet forums. I suppose it would be nice to have an explanation of why the poster disagrees, but one doesn’t always get an explanation of why the poster liked the post.

I suggested this before on this forum that if the color of the disagree was changed, to yellow for example, I think it would have a less emotional impact.
Holy cow that’s genius. Blue thumbs down! Same as thumbs up.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,257
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
What is this PRSI? I can web search the details, but I don’t know what it stands for and the hits I get don’t make any sense.
Political, Religious, Social Issues. It was a cesspool of a forum in this site. I am glad it was deleted permanently. As a result, several users who exclusively posted there and added no value to the site are gone.
 

ric22

macrumors 68000
Mar 8, 2022
1,848
1,792
Say you block someone. You've deemed them offensive or idiotic or both. Do you still want to see that they're there downvoting you and everyone you agree with? No.

Any chance you can just make it as if they've vanished, rather than having reminders of them dotted all over the place? Thanks
 

ric22

macrumors 68000
Mar 8, 2022
1,848
1,792
Ah, so someone made the same suggestion 2 years ago, but the regular board software doesn't allow it, and no one wanted to risk using an add on? That's a shame :(
 

ric22

macrumors 68000
Mar 8, 2022
1,848
1,792
Alternatively, can't we just scrap the reactions, aside from like? The childish reactions here are unlike anything I've ever seen at any other forum I've posted on, in 30 years of posting on forums. 😅
 

icanhazmac

Contributor
Apr 11, 2018
2,531
9,491
Alternatively, can't we just scrap the reactions, aside from like? The childish reactions here are unlike anything I've ever seen at any other forum I've posted on, in 30 years of posting on forums. 😅

Aside from the occasional troll, that cannot debate with words, how exactly are the emoted opinions of other members childish?

While I agree that the afore mentioned trolls can be supremely annoying, they are few in number and I would venture to say that most members here are emoting in good faith. I don't see any need to trash the whole system because of the handful of losers.
 
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