iBox - Apple Set Top Box?

[chriscorcoran]

It would be nice if Apple releases a box that includes:
-Digital TV Reciever (if possible, combine ATSC and DVB-T (<DVB-T used more and is better than ATSC).
-Media Player (iTunes, Quicktime)
-Safari TV (A name I thought of for a TV version of Safari)

TV Safari? Sounds a little like MSN TV? I dont think so! Steve is smarter then that. (or at least I hope his is)

 

[Urdam]

Maybe, but probably not come out

 

[jettredmont]

I so love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about start rambling on and on. What do you mean there's no difference in resolution???? Are you on drugs man??? The max that S-Video can pass is 480 interlaced scanlines compared w/ component inputs that can run 1080 interlaced scan lines.......480----1080...yeah obviuosly no difference there.

As I thought was clear through context, I am talking about standard definition video. If you are passing SDTV through a composite cable hooked up to an SVideo converter, and thence to your set, you will not lose any appreciable amount of resolution (aside from any interference the device might introduce of course). I believe this is what the original poster was talking about. While there is a minor difference in quality between component signalling and SVideo signalling, looking at them side by side it's difficult to impossible to see it. Relative to SVideo-Composite or Composite-RF there is no difference whatsoever. Likewise, on an HDTV signal, the DVI-Composite difference is thoroughly striking relative to the difference between Composite-SVideo on standard resolution.

Again, on SDTV you will have less resolution using an RF signal than an SVideo signal, and slightly less resolution using a composite signal than an SVideo signal. Your set might not show the difference between SVideo and Composite very well, but the difference between SVideo and RF should be readily apparent. Between Composite and SVideo you should have the same number of lines of resolution horizontally and vertically, which is the definition of resolution, no? However, SVideo may introduce some amount of crosstalk between its signals. Composite introduces a significantly higher bit of crosstalk between signals, which, combined with the slight resolution difference, makes the composite-SVideo gap significantly larger than the SVideo-component gap. As I said, cross-talk is primarily a problem for long cable distances. So, for this Component-SVideo box, so long as the box itself is close to the output device (TV), crosstalk should be effectively removed as an issue. Leaving, as I said, SVideo and Component Video at identical quality (and, of course, identical resolutions).

Of course it makes no sense to compare an HDTV signal of any sort to an SDTV signal. Of course the HDTV signal has better resolution. Do I really have to say that? I thought we were all reasonably intelligent here. However, if your device is emitting an SDTV signal, connecting via the component ports instead of the SVideo or composite jacks don't give you HDTV. It gives you SDTV. Through component cables.

So yes, HDTV of various flavors, and progressive scan, can all be put through composite cables as well as SDTV. I tend to doubt that a Composite-SVideo translation box as described would handle any of these variants, so the point is moot (HDTV-SDTV conversion circuitry is relatively expensive; by contrast the electronics to rig together a composite-svideo wire/signal mapping box is really cheap). Would you lose resolution taking an HDTV source into this Component-SVideo converter box and then to the TV? Yes, absolutely; you'd go from your nice clean HDTV signal to a one-pixel-by-one-pixel pure black screen!

As I noted originally, HDTV is a completely different story.

Excuse my remark about not wanting to use component with HDTV. It was obviously insensitive to those who don't have DVI ... my HDTV supports DVI input and, quite frankly, there's no way I'd buy a unit today which doesn't. Fortunately for consumers today, it seems like most of the higher-end HDTV models support DVI now. And, truthfully, component inputs/outputs haven't been out all that long either, at least not at the consumer level; there's not a large body of devices giving component signalling market momentum. If Apple or anybody were to ut out a groundbreaking device supporting HDTV, a lack of a DVI output would absolutely kill the product.

That having been said, yes, I suppose if component signals and/or component inputs are all you've got you would use good old component cables for video. Note, however, that unlike the SVideo vs Component debate, there is a real, appreciable, and frankly dramatic difference between a component signal and a DVI signal. If you are worried about the Component/SVideo translator doing injustice to your component signal, then you damn well would pay the extra bucks to get DVI-based equipment for your HDTV signals.


Sorry about taking so long to respond, and doubly sorry for writing a book in response. Hadn't looked at this thread in a while, but at least three people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about meant I had to either admit I'm a functionally illiterate moron, or clarify what I'd posted

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Tivo doesn't do all that the rumor says Apple's device will do. Read the source.

Umm, yeah it does. Everything except for the superdrive bit. TiVo does photos, music, remote scheduling, and multi-room viewing. It even does wireless.

While I'm being pedantic ...

I admit I don't have the Home Network Option of Tivo; I have DirecTV and find the receiver/Tivo integration far more important than the HNO, and DirecTV doesn't allow Tivo's manufacturers to build an HNO-compatible DirecTV device.

That having been said, it seems to me that Tivo's networking option is signifactly slimmer than this rumor described. Can you organize photos and music on the Tivo? I thought it was read-only (I could be wrong there, though; as I said I don't have then networking option).

Obviously Tivo doesn't have the superdrive or iDVD-lite. Some would say this is rather significant. Going along with that, Tivo doesn't have a firewire port for importing video camera work (what would be the point, without an output?) It also doesn't hook up to cameras (although I suspect some of the Linux hacks of Tivos might allow for that).

And, of course, for a 120GB unit with home networking and wireless networking and presumably no monthly fee, the quoted price is significantly lower than Tivo's.

To your point, however, I think it would be more likely for Apple to get Tivo to add all these niceties into their box than to jump into the Tivo market. Unless there's some kind of bad blood between the two companies, but with Tivo's current support of Macs I don't think that's the case either. However, today, Tivo definitely doesn't support these features.

 

[Xenious]

Am I nuts in wanting my computer to also be a TV+Tivo? I don't really want a set-top box. I want to be able to have Tivo like functionality on my computer. Thats the one thing I can't seem to give up my Windows Media Center PC for. Sure there are mac tv products, but they don't have tuning pass through for digital cable. That seems to be what everyone misses out on (which is why I wonder if I'm a niche user need). Give me one computer which can house my MP3s, my pictures, plus act as a Tivo/Replay TV for digitial cable then let me stream it anywhere in my house via small "Extender" type boxes on my TVs. I don't want an Apple TV any more than I want a Microsoft TV. I want an apple computer that is also a TV and I want to view it on my Sony in the other room as well.

I still plan on making my "switch" once new G5's are announced (bring on 30" monitors with extremely high resolution), but I can't let go of my media center pc yet. I hate to say it, since I really love OSX and Apple's designs, but Microsoft is giving me the functionality I want with Media Center and the planned set-top extender boxes. Why can't apple??
-jim

 

[multimedium]

TiVO and Apple should partner up!

I think TiVO and Apple would make an excellent team. TiVO uses Linux, and creating a version of iTunes for TiVO would therefore be a much easier port than mac > windoze. It would be totally awesome if we could wirelessly, say through an airport, send our iPhoto pictures to our TV, as well as home movies from iMovie, and ITunes music to our TiVO.

I own a TiVO, have for years, and I have to say it changed my life - I watch less TV, but the quality of TV I watch is a hundred times better. It is already the center of our entertainment center. It would be an elegant way to stream my huge iTunes library playlists to my stereo system - sure there are ways to do that already, but I'd rather invest in something that can do more, like stream photos and movies wirelessly.

Apple and TiVO, the companies, also have similar corporate cultures from what I can tell. They are both innovators of both hardware and software. TiVO already has the connections to the satelite and cable industries for delivering content. Apple has a great set of Unix - based software, the best music download site, and of course innovative hardware design. TiVO already licenses their system to other vendors like Sony and Panasonic, why not Apple?

Plus, the "operating system" in TiVO hasn't changed much the last few years. I think something big is coming from them relatively soon.

As far as what Steve Jobs says, he's not stupid. He even said "now I'm not saying we don't have something like that in our labs" when he said he had no interest in set-top boxes. My guess? They'll do something BEYOND the definitiion of a "set top" box. They'll bring iTunes to your TV, at least, and possibly bring your Mac media to it as well.

 

[mvc]

As far as what Steve Jobs says, he's not stupid. He even said "now I'm not saying we don't have something like that in our labs" when he said he had no interest in set-top boxes. My guess? They'll do something BEYOND the definitiion of a "set top" box. They'll bring iTunes to your TV, at least, and possibly bring your Mac media to it as well.

Yep, this is future of the home computer. a true entertainment media communications hub, plugged into the internet 24/7 and wirelessly connected to anything with a screen or speakers.