If i install tiger...

[technocoy]

not a justification...

i'm not justifying anything, simply stating that of all the things that he could have stolen, he gets berated for something that isn't even complete software and could be compared to using shareware, by people that given the cd were in there hands would likely install it themselves just to see the new os but like i said, wrong is wrong and the hipocrisy on the board is what set me off. because i know that everyone on this board has done something wrong on about the same level as copying a pre-release incomplete piece of software.

 

[iJon]

i wrong is wrong and the hipocrisy on the board is what set me off. because i know that everyone on this board has done something wrong on about the same level as copying a pre-release incomplete piece of software.

yeah, but most of us are smart enough not to talk about it .

iJOn

 

[applekid]

and you are just little angels that never do anything wrong ever... <snip>

Relax, guy.

Now, where did I say I never did anything wrong in my life?

I was complaining about how some Mac users justify pirating Tiger in any way they can. Even a simple PR release just HAS to pirated? Really? Got no patience? Can't wait till next year? Is it really going to kill you not try Tiger before it's released? Your infatuation is getting in the way of your common sense.

And comparing crimes to other crimes is completely opinionated, not facts.

People keep claiming there's no harm intended, but well, there is. You broke an agreement and the distributor broke an agreement. Apple sure won't want to trust those people. Is it that hard to honor an agreement? If I sell you software, I trust that you will not cut my sales by giving it away to your friends. I've witnessed many times developers getting screwed by some idiot that just had to pirate and distribute a program; developers I personally know. All of you that pirate Tiger are in the same ranks as those losers, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[zakee00]

i think some of us here work for apple

 

[m.r.m.]

general question. i don't have any release of tiger or anything like that.

in the windows world many consider it better to format and install a new os instead of installing it over the old one (simply updating). i've seen benchmarks showing the same machine performing better after a clean install of xp (previously measured by updating from win 98se to xp without format).
how is this with osx? is it the same or is it better to format first before installing the os?

 

[technocoy]

it's pointless to argue...

my point has been missed and i guess i can't articulate it properly.

Just to point it out, he never tried to justify his theft, he just asked how to install tiger.

um and in case you haven't been around this board long, no people here usually CAN'T wait to see new products. they are FANATICS about apple.

And my infactuation isn't getting in the way of anything, i haven't tried tiger yet, nor do i plan to until it's release. Panther was another story, as no, i couldn't wait to see expose work.

and i guess it's not YOUR OPINION that:

a: he stole his copy of tiger
b: that if he did steal his copy of tiger that it was wrong

I am also not saying that he did nothing wrong, but ASSUMING he did steal it, no he isn't cutting into sales for apple because the product isn't on sale. It's also not a proper OS yet, so if people want to mass produce it and run a half complete, crashing OS on their computer, more power to them, but i think they would opt to buy the real one when it goes on sale, or steal the full version as well, in which case, MY OPINION is that they are then asses and deserve to be sought out and prosecuted by apple, but now for downloading a "preview" just out of curiousity to check it out.

yes they are breaking an agreement by downloading it, i agree. they have technically broken the law. i think thats your point, so agreed, you win.

PEACE OUT!
technocoy

 

[applekid]

yes they are breaking an agreement by downloading it, i agree. they have technically broken the law. i think thats your point, so agreed, you win.

Good way to end the whole argument

But, the reasoning for pirating Tiger at all still aren't good enough to say it's more important than the agreement. Even though it's not on sale, it's the principles of it that matter.

I'll end it with that.

 

[ingenious]

oh, get off your high horse. Surely, you can understand why people might not want to wait the better part of a year for Tiger - they want it now. But, when the time comes, when Tiger is released, these people will probably purchase the final version (rather than be stuck on an incomplete beta). If they had a means to do so now, they probably would buy the final version (if it was available). So what if they are using a prerelease if they will probably buy it anyway? No one is losing out from this type of activity. So yes, piracy is piracy, but please don't "black and white" this situation, because not all piracy is a bad thing.

Here we go again. I'll black and white it. Yes, all piracy is wrong. Am I completely innocent? No. Do I try to be? Yes. It is wrong for them to copy, buy, or "borrow" Tiger from an attendee, just plain because it's stealing. Shallowly it may appear that the attendees got it free, but they payed for a ticket right?!? So, it's obviously not free. You've all heard the rest before.

 

[cb911]

to answer your original question carbonfiber, i think it'd be best to install Tiger on a completely differnet partition. you could try VolumeWorks, or there's some app out there that lets you create a new partition, leaving current ones intact.

if you try and install over Panther (which would be a stupid thing to do BTW) i think it would wipe all of your files, not that i've tried that, i just put it on a seperate partition.

and for those of you having kernel panics when trying to install from the DVD... you can just open the 'install Tiger' package and look for a package called 'OSinstall.pkg' or something like that. but then you'll have to run it from a working install and then you can only install it to another volume. hope that helps some of you.

 

[Mr. G4]

Is it really piracy if the thing was free in the first place.?

Not quite.
You have to purchase the WWDC ticket to get Tiger, or you have to be member of developer Select or Premium to get it for free and the membership is at least $500 for Select and the ticket to WWDC was at least $1300.

As to loose or not data when installing Tiger, like someone said it's better to have a spare partition and install Tiger by itself, if you don't you can always use volumework to split your hard drive without to have to loose your data.

 

[applekid]

Not quite.
You have to purchase the WWDC ticket to get Tiger, or you have to be member of developer Select or Premium to get it for free and the membership is at least $500 for Select and the ticket to WWDC was at least $1300.

As to loose or not data when installing Tiger, like someone said it's better to have a spare partition and install Tiger by itself, if you don't you can always use volumework to split your hard drive without to have to loose your data.

Breaking the agreement makes it piracy.

 

[Mr. G4]

Breaking the agreement makes it piracy.

I never said otherwise.
I replied to the guy who that if it's free it's not piracy.

 

[applekid]

I never said otherwise.
I replied to the guy who that if it's free it's not piracy.

I read your whole post incorrectly. Sorry.

I guess that's the end of this thread.

 

[danrufus]

Very simple...

All apple has to do is put a digital siganture on each of the Tiger releases, and associate that number, with an attendee to WWDC.

When the software is "leaked" or "borrowed" it can be traced back to the original "owner" of the software, and that will be his/hers last WWDC.

This is what Hollywood does with movies, and people have lost there jobs/ contracts.

DONE.

 

[MillieWales]

All apple has to do is put a digital siganture on each of the Tiger releases, and associate that number, with an attendee to WWDC.

When the software is "leaked" or "borrowed" it can be traced back to the original "owner" of the software, and that will be his/hers last WWDC.

This is what Hollywood does with movies, and people have lost there jobs/ contracts.

DONE.

How do we know they don't? Just because they haven't said they do, does not mean they don't! Sure, they haven't done anything about it so far, no lawsuits or allegations, but maybe they are slowly quietly building up a list of the people who constantly put the software 'out there' for others to obtain. Maybe they don't see this instance as such a big deal and are waiting for an instance that IS such a big deal? As it would be that easy, and Apple are far from stupid, maybe they know they can do this and just don't see that it's worth doing? Maybe they don't see some pre-pre-release half finished copy getting out to lots of people as as much as an issue as some of the people on here do? After all, if they were as worried by it as some of the people on here it would not take much to tighten the controls and security, after all they do a pretty good job of keeping product releases a secret - sure stuff gets out but rarely do we know 'for sure'.

 

[davecuse]

Where the pre-release copy was gotten aside, the question remains, why would you want to install an early early beta version of an OS on your daily machine?? I mean there are bound to be some big problems, it's only natural with the release date being next year.

It's one thing if you're a developer with a couple of test machines laying around that you can format and not worry about. Word of advice, there's a reason that Apple hasn't released this to the public. You could very easily corrupt your hard drive and lose all your data. Wait till it's actually released, you'll be much happier with the end result.

 

[cb911]

Where the pre-release copy was gotten aside, the question remains, why would you want to install an early early beta version of an OS on your daily machine?? I mean there are bound to be some big problems, it's only natural with the release date being next year.

exactly. and because this is the case i don't understand why there are so many people getting all worried about some kid just getting a copy to mess around with? it's not like these people are going to try and sell it on eBay as 'Tiger - GM' or something. if anything, they'll only hurt themselves through mean of data loss or some other technical problem.

 

[davecuse]

I do software support and it makes me cringe when people tell me they are running Win XP SP2 Release Candidate, and it's generally n00bs who have no idea how to fix a problem that it breaks. I've tested SP2 extensively, and it's horribly buggy... that's why they keep pushing off the release date!

"Beta testers" who don't know how to troubleshoot problems is one of my biggest pet peeves.

 

[cb911]

"Beta testers" who don't know how to troubleshoot problems is one of my biggest pet peeves.

LOL what kind of a Beta tester couldn't troubleshoot? that's a bit useless... he he. or are you talking about people who just fancy themselves as Beta testers? kind of 'pseudo Beta testers'?

 

[davecuse]

LOL what kind of a Beta tester couldn't troubleshoot? that's a bit useless... he he. or are you talking about people who just fancy themselves as Beta testers? kind of 'pseudo Beta testers'?

You got the nail on the head

 

[Mr. G4]

How do we know they don't? Just because they haven't said they do, does not mean they don't! Sure, they haven't done anything about it so far, no lawsuits or allegations, but maybe they are slowly quietly building up a list of the people who constantly put the software 'out there' for others to obtain. Maybe they don't see this instance as such a big deal and are waiting for an instance that IS such a big deal? As it would be that easy, and Apple are far from stupid, maybe they know they can do this and just don't see that it's worth doing? Maybe they don't see some pre-pre-release half finished copy getting out to lots of people as as much as an issue as some of the people on here do? After all, if they were as worried by it as some of the people on here it would not take much to tighten the controls and security, after all they do a pretty good job of keeping product releases a secret - sure stuff gets out but rarely do we know 'for sure'.

Come on don't be too paranoid.
After the keynote people rushed out to the registration area to get their copy of Tiger. The staff gave a copy to anyone that have a "virgin" name tag holder and when you get your copy of Tiger they just punched a hole in the name tag holder.

 

[sockeatingdryer]

You miss the philosophical point. Just because something isn't good doesn't put it immediately on the side of bad. Good and evil may be analogous to white and black, but that doesn't mean that gray cannot exist. Neutrality is a viable option, espeicially in the instance of this n00b. Perhaps he did get Tiger through piracy, but in the end, he probably will buy the full release instead of some half finished beta. If he has it now, what HARM does it do? I think this would be a case of neutral piracy... the n00b will probably harm his system before he harms anyone else!

I can tell you what harm it does... it makes one less person the developers can lord it over on. Because, you know, they are such gods.

BTW, what's up with all these snarky kids popping up all over this forum system all of a sudden? They're a real pain in the...

 

[maradong]

yes, pirating is wrong...and yes, i've done it. specifically, i got a hold of the panther preview release, just because i was so darn interested. but, i bought the full version on "night of the panther" and i bought the family pack for all my machines.

so did I, though i only have one machine

 

[Mord]

Im just making sure that if i insttall tiger it wont destroy all my files and whatnot. All my documents etc.. will be left alone, right? Cus im a n00b at this

yes they will be left allone but there are not guarrenteesback up everthing and give it a 2 week test if it's stable keep it if it's not just stay with panther, 10.4 id stable on some macs and total hell on others.

the guy asked a question yes he sounds a bit noobish but who cares just awnser the question.

i'm running 10.4 and yes it's not a legit copy but what harm is it doing i dont care that it's breaking the law i'll pay for the full release of 10.4. it's not takeing money from anyone i could understand your point for argueing against pirateing comercial programs but this is beta software.

it's against the law? i bet that 99% of the people on this board have broken some computer law by copying files or somthing like that the reallity is that with software like this there is no victim.

 

[toughboy]

oh, get off your high horse. Surely, you can understand why people might not want to wait the better part of a year for Tiger - they want it now. But, when the time comes, when Tiger is released, these people will probably purchase the final version (rather than be stuck on an incomplete beta). If they had a means to do so now, they probably would buy the final version (if it was available). So what if they are using a prerelease if they will probably buy it anyway? No one is losing out from this type of activity. So yes, piracy is piracy, but please don't "black and white" this situation, because not all piracy is a bad thing.

I totally agree..

Apple earns from the final version sales of its software products, beta pirating just feeds our hunger of curiosity and gives NO HARM to Apple which means that it is nothing bad at all..

Me myself would not dare to wait a moment to install Tiger on my PB, if I could be totally sure that it'll be no harm to my software or hardware..