Intel Macs - More USB, Still with Firewire?

[shamino]

Not that I've ever run out of USB ports--but I'm sure Mac Mini owners do if they don't use a keyboard or display like Apple's, with a hub built in.

Really? Don't have many devices, do you?

My PowerMac G4 only included two USB ports. Used them both immediately and was forced to buy an external powered hub in order to connect my:

• Keybaord (with mouse daisy-chained)
• Printer
• Camera
• Card reader
• Game controller

I would need even more parts if my tape drive and scanner weren't FireWire, and if I didn't also purchase a USB 2.0 PCI card for my flash-drive and iPod.

 

[shamino]

... Perhaps they will/could drop FW800 in favor of external SATA conntecor?

How does this help?

SATA can't support more than a small number of drives (and usually need to be hacked in order to support more than one). It also won't support tape drives, scanners, video cameras, or any of the other things FW ports are used for.

 

[BlueRevolution]

0MGZ GUYS!!! We NEED FireWire to go! It's the only way to make PBs thinner! Isn't this the right concept here? Someone using what happened with the iPods?

I'd like to direct your attention to the attached picture. clearly, the DVI out, S-video and Ethernet ports are the ones getting in the way of a smaller PB. it could certainly get smaller by replacing S-video and DVI with a single mini-DVI port (you can't use both at the same time anyway, ship it with mini-DVI to DVI and mini-DVI to S-video adapters) and replacing the Ethernet connector with a FW800 external network device (same form factor as the Apple modem, ships with the PB too). I doubt the internal modem will stay. just give us 2 FW800 ports and 2 or 3 USB ports and I don't think anyone would complain.

edit: attached the picture

 

[Photorun]

1- Macosxrumors.com just make up stuff as they go. Stop reprinting what they write.

2- 1 Firewire port is what's currently offered on the PowerBook, this is nothing new. One of FireWire's greatest asset is that you need only 1 port as all devices are hub-able.

3- FireWire is NECESSARY. Without it, no video editing (err, iMovie, Final Cutm hello? Apple is king here!). Also, you can boot off of a FireWire drive, you can connect 2 Macs in target disk mode to transfer file in a super easy way (that's what Apple use in Tiger when you launch a new Mac for the first time!).

Also, it's despite what the on paper numbers claimed FW400 is faster than USB2.0, to say nothing of FW800 which allows you to run uncompressed HD from an external drive (1 stream) in real time!

All these things make FireWire far.... FAR superior to USB2.

Thank you for posting exactly what I was going to say, hopefully readers will see your comment before opening their mouths thinking they should give two rats asses about this sites "reporting" or read your post here again if they tune in later.

Move along folks, nothing of actual info to see here, Firewire is alive and well and reports of it's death are, as always, greatly exaggerated.

 

[shamino]

... replacing the Ethernet connector with a FW800 external network device (same form factor as the Apple modem, ships with the PB too). I doubt the internal modem will stay. just give us 2 FW800 ports and 2 or 3 USB ports and I don't think anyone would complain.

Anybody who takes their PowerBook on the road will complain.

When travelling, you often don't have access to wireless networks. Ethernet and modem are necessary when travelling. If they require external dongles, then these are more devices you have to remember to pack, and devices that will cost a lot of money to replace if they get lost or damaged.

Remember all the PCMCIA modems and Ethernet interfaces that required proprietary dongles? They got lost and damaged all the time, and cost almost as much as a new interface if you needed to buy a replacement.

A lot of people (myself included) were very happy when computers started shipping with these devices built-in, putting an end to the madness. There's no way I'm going to ask for all that nonsense to start again.

 

[BornAgainMac]

I predict FW400 will just be replaced with FW800. With a cable you can still use existing FW400 devices USB 2.0 is rated at 480 and it sounded like it was better to the average Joe consumer in comparison. Now FW800 can be the king both in real performance, specs, and additional functionality.

Mystery solved with the Firewire rumor.

 

[avkills]

....to say nothing of FW800 which allows you to run uncompressed HD from an external drive (1 stream) in real time!

I seriously don't think so, FW800 peaks at 100MB/sec:

UC (uncompressed) 8bit 720p 30fps is 55MB/sec
UC 10bit 720p 30fps is 75MB/sec

Those two you might get away with, but I doubt it; a single drive or even 2 raided together are probably not fast enough. On paper the protocol is fast enough, but good luck finding a drive that will do it. The same format DVCPRO-HD 720p is only 7+ MB/sec.

UC 1080i/p 8bit or 10bit.... no chance in hell.

Although you can stream uncompressed SD 4:2:2 10bit video over Firewire800 using a G-RAID or G-RAID Pro.

-mark

 

[shamino]

I seriously don't think so, FW800 peaks at 100MB/sec:

UC (uncompressed) 8bit 720p 30fps is 55MB/sec
UC 10bit 720p 30fps is 75MB/sec
...
UC 1080i/p 8bit or 10bit.... no chance in hell.

Several years ago, my employer (a manufacturer of carrier-class networking gear) ran a demonstration involving uncompressed 1080i HD video. The stream was approximately 1.5Gbps. About twice the theoretical top speed of FW800.

Still, 720p may be doable over FW800, if the drive can keep up. Of course, I don't think most FW-ATA bridge chips are fast enough. Maybe possible with a FW-SCSI bridge, however, since FW uses SCSI protocol - meaning much less overhead. Unfortunately, I've never heard of a drive that uses a FW-SCSI bridge.

 

[Randall]

How does this help?

SATA can't support more than a small number of drives (and usually need to be hacked in order to support more than one). It also won't support tape drives, scanners, video cameras, or any of the other things FW ports are used for.

First of all, it's 50% faster then firewire 800, second of all, show me just one firewire 800 product that you actually use? THey are all FW400 at this point, so might as well take SATA as a next step for external HDs, since it's way faster.

 

[Peace]

First of all, it's 50% faster then firewire 800, second of all, show me just one firewire 800 product that you actually use? THey are all FW400 at this point, so might as well take SATA as a next step for external HDs, since it's way faster.

I can see where S-ATA can be useful for external HD's but what of all the other external devices like burners,scanners,cameras,video cameras etc. ?

Switching from firewire to S-ATA would be a very bad move.

 

[avkills]

First of all, it's 50% faster then firewire 800, second of all, show me just one firewire 800 product that you actually use? THey are all FW400 at this point, so might as well take SATA as a next step for external HDs, since it's way faster.

I use G-technology G-RAIDs at work and they are indeed true FW800 devices. They have 2 drives in them, with a hardware RAID; one drive writes inside to outside and one outside to inside, which makes it so filling the drive does not slow the performance down.

I have run uncompressed 10bit SD video from these drives out a AJA Video IoLA Firewire bridge component video to our Sony DFS-700 Switching system...has been flawless so far. I also do the normal recording chores like going to BetaSP or DVCAM, etc etc.

Host CPU is a dual 2Ghz G5. Drives are connected to a PCI FW800 card since the AJA device sucks all the bandwidth from the internal FW bus. The AJA bridge kicks butt, it supports DV25, DV50, uncompressed 8bit and uncompressed 10bit SD video over FW400.

-mark

 

[synp]

I'd like to direct your attention to the attached picture. clearly, the DVI out, S-video and Ethernet ports are the ones getting in the way of a smaller PB. it could certainly get smaller by replacing S-video and DVI with a single mini-DVI port (you can't use both at the same time anyway, ship it with mini-DVI to DVI and mini-DVI to S-video adapters) and replacing the Ethernet connector with a FW800 external network device (same form factor as the Apple modem, ships with the PB too). I doubt the internal modem will stay. just give us 2 FW800 ports and 2 or 3 USB ports and I don't think anyone would complain.

Of course we would complain. The Ethernet connector is a must. Not all places have wireless, or else it's costly and it's always way slower than wired.

Believe it or not, the modem is still very useful. Lots of places make you use a fax instead of email. A computer is a wonderful fax machine. The modem port needs to stay.

 

[BlueRevolution]

I'm afraid things don't look good for the modem port even if you don't listen to my random babbling. every updated Mac in recent months has removed the internal modem (iMac and PM) and if anything it makes more sense to axe the modem from a mobile computer for the meager space savings involved. ethernet I'm sure will be around for a long time to come, but it too is certainly something that Apple could make into an external device to shave off a few extra millimeters from the machine.

 

[Platform]

FW rocks.....Migration, Target Disk Mode etc.

What about FW 1600 that supports both 400 and 800 too

 

[Randall]

I'm afraid things don't look good for the modem port even if you don't listen to my random babbling. every updated Mac in recent months has removed the internal modem (iMac and PM) and if anything it makes more sense to axe the modem from a mobile computer for the meager space savings involved. ethernet I'm sure will be around for a long time to come, but it too is certainly something that Apple could make into an external device to shave off a few extra millimeters from the machine.

They will never ditch the ethernet RJ45 connector, it's like saying they'll take out the power adapter because it runs on batteries. That's crazy talk. Ok so I shouldn't say "never" but if a change like that comes, then they will replace it with a new "wired" standard. There will always be a physical wired way to get onto a network. There has to be.

And yes, for the few who still use dial up modems, you can get a PC card for the modem jack, and have access that way. I suppose you can make the same argument for the ethernet jack, but I don't see them ditching it for a long long time.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I'd like to direct your attention to the attached picture. clearly, the DVI out, S-video and Ethernet ports are the ones getting in the way of a smaller PB. it could certainly get smaller by replacing S-video and DVI with a single mini-DVI port (you can't use both at the same time anyway, ship it with mini-DVI to DVI and mini-DVI to S-video adapters) and replacing the Ethernet connector with a FW800 external network device (same form factor as the Apple modem, ships with the PB too). I doubt the internal modem will stay. just give us 2 FW800 ports and 2 or 3 USB ports and I don't think anyone would complain.

edit: attached the picture

Gah I never looked at the ports on a PowerBook that intently before. Clearly Apple is going to have to drop some functionality on the *Book to make it thinner or at the very least move to a dongle device which I doubt they would do. Crap.

PS- Ethernet isn't going anywhere. Apple would drop the keyboard before they drop the NIC.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Guys. Has anyone heard anything new on Wireless Firewire? There was a major buzz about this 2 years ago and then nothing.

 

[Randall]

Gah I never looked at the ports on a PowerBook that intently before. Clearly Apple is going to have to drop some functionality on the *Book to make it thinner or at the very least move to a dongle device which I doubt they would do. Crap.

PS- Ethernet isn't going anywhere. Apple would drop the keyboard before they drop the NIC.

I actually think that the 17 and 15" models are thin enough as is. if they try to thin it out any more then the internal devices themeselves as well as the external plugs become an issue. Besides, if it gets any thinner, it's going to feel flimsy and cheap unless it's made out of some very sturdy material. I agree with you, the Network Interface Card is here to stay.

Guys. Has anyone heard anything new on Wireless Firewire? There was a major buzz about this 2 years ago and then nothing.

Honestly I don't see the point. As I mentioned before, the devices that use the FW400 6-pin for power will be rendered useless in a wireless scheme. We all know you can't have wireless power

 

[shamino]

I'm afraid things don't look good for the modem port even if you don't listen to my random babbling. every updated Mac in recent months has removed the internal modem (iMac and PM) and if anything it makes more sense to axe the modem from a mobile computer for the meager space savings involved.

Actually, trends show quite the opposite.

Modems have flip-flopped in desktop systems since the very first Macs. Sometimes bundled, sometimes BTO internal options, sometimes bundled external, and sometimes third-party.

Laptops, however, have never dropped them since their first inclusion.

It also makes more sense from a useability standpoint. Portable systems need to connect to a wide variety of different infrastructures, and there are a lot of places where telephone is the best you've got. Desktop systems, however, only have to connect to what's on-site, so a buyer without an immediate need for a modem will probably never develop a need to use one later on.

 

[Sunrunner]

I think he was saying why don't the camcorders ship with a 4-pin to 6-pin connector. The 4-pin connector makes perfect sense to use with electronics that aren't utilizing the power feature of FireWire, since the 4-pin connector is small and low profile, it integrates well with modern electronics that continue to get smaller and more advanced.

They dont ship with an adaptor becuase consumer electronics companies are cheep and would rather make you pay a few dollars to get one as an accessory.

 

[Peace]

Guys. Has anyone heard anything new on Wireless Firewire? There was a major buzz about this 2 years ago and then nothing.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1906230,00.asp

 

[PCMacUser]

If the talk is about dropping FW from the iBook, then I guess that would be ok.

No it wouldn't be okay!

 

[hob]

I really think that they could trim more off the 15" model, until the ports were actually on the very very edge of the device...

 

[johnnyjibbs]

To be honest, even the 12" PB is thin enough. Apple has always said that these are FULL FEATURED notebooks. (e.g. the 12" PB is/was the smallest "full featured" notebook in the world). If you start stripping off modem, ethernet, disc drive off them to save some space, it loses its full featured status and the extras that you have to lug around just in case outweigh any benefits of a thinner, lighter design.

I don't think they will lose any of the ports. The 15 and 17" could both move to mini DVI to be consistent with the 12" PB, with included adaptors, but there's not much more that they can remove. And as for more USB 2 ports - hell - I've got 2 ports on my PB and I've never needed to use both of them at the same time!!!

Give me 2 USB + 1 Firewire any day over 4 USB ports.

 

[Lacero]

No it wouldn't be okay!

Who uses Firewire? Certainly not those USB loving iBook newbies. Only real pros use and require Firewire. With the advent of disc and memory stick camcorders, no one really needs Firewire. It's already an antiquated technology from 1996!

Here's to the Crazy Ones ​