iPad Pro iPad Pro dilemma: Let it be or keep dreaming?

[FeliApple]

Not that a differing opinion would invalidate what’s being discussed here. But a great attempt at cancelling someone out.

-People who desperately want MacOS create a trillion repetitive threads for public discussion

-The majority who disagrees says so, as it’s a public discussion

-The extreme minority who wants this complains because people say they disagree on a public discussion on a public forum

Three solutions:

-Stop posting repetitive threads with the same rehashed arguments if you don’t want people to disagree

-Post them and tolerate dissenting opinions

-Create a private discussion with everyone who wants this and you’ll get only pro-MacOS posts

I’m not cancelling anyone. I’m giving my opinion on a public post.

 

[ericwn]

-People who desperately want MacOS create a trillion repetitive threads for public discussion

-The majority who disagrees says so, as it’s a public discussion

-The extreme minority who wants this complains because people say they disagree on a public discussion on a public forum

Three solutions:

-Stop posting repetitive threads with the same rehashed arguments if you don’t want people to disagree

-Post them and tolerate dissenting opinions

-Create a private discussion with everyone who wants this and you’ll get only pro-MacOS posts

I’m not cancelling anyone. I’m giving my opinion on a public post.

You are free to avoid topics that get you all enraged but instead you actively try to belittle people here by referring to polls and what not as if they had any meaningful impact. Your assumptions upon what iPad users may or may not want are just that. An opinion.

 

[FeliApple]

You are free to avoid topics that get you all enraged but instead you actively try to belittle people here by referring to polls and what not as if they had any meaningful impact. Your assumptions upon what iPad users may or may not want are just that. An opinion.

I’m not enraged. I’m giving my opinion. It’s not liked among proponents of iPad obliteration, but I accept that.

I’m not belittling anyone. Keep posting repetitive posts, I’ll keep giving my opinion. If MacOS proponents don’t like it, create a private discussion.

 

[ericwn]

If MacOS proponents don’t like it, create a private discussion.

If you feel that posts are made that don’t belong on the board speak to a moderator or ask Arm to make you one. Changes to a product, until further notice, will continue to be posted in that product’s board here, regardless of your preference.

 

[FeliApple]

If you feel that posts are made that don’t belong on the board speak to a moderator or ask Arm to make you one. Changes to a product, until further notice, will continue to be posted in that product’s board here, regardless of your preference.

Okay, I’ll keep posting my opinion then.

 

[Ludatyk]

-People who desperately want MacOS create a trillion repetitive threads for public discussion

-The majority who disagrees says so, as it’s a public discussion

-The extreme minority who wants this complains because people say they disagree on a public discussion on a public forum

Three solutions:

-Stop posting repetitive threads with the same rehashed arguments if you don’t want people to disagree

-Post them and tolerate dissenting opinions

-Create a private discussion with everyone who wants this and you’ll get only pro-MacOS posts

I’m not cancelling anyone. I’m giving my opinion on a public post.

It certainly gets repetitive.

And the strange thing about this discussion, the tasks they call for can actually be done on the iPad… it’s just not how they are accustomed of doing it hence “bring macOS to the iPad.”

 

[ericwn]

It certainly gets repetitive.

And the strange thing about this discussion, the tasks they call for can actually be done on the iPad… it’s just not how they are accustomed of doing it hence “bring macOS to the iPad.”

Assuming much today… but that’s what we are used to here. That is the most repetitive part around here.

 

[emembee]

I was very much into wanting ipados to be the thing and sunset my Mac, that was until I recently got a hand down of M1 MBP And a huge difference in performance from my i5. It does seem Apple are lingering or perhaps unsure what direction to take or did Vision Pro take all their brightest devs and will return sometime, maybe fix the many bugs on Mac and iOS. Meanwhile am totally ok with both devices that play well together and sceptical what the new ones will bring.

 

[Ludatyk]

Assuming much today… but that’s what we are used to here. That is the most repetitive part around here.

If anything, I’m trying to help the OP. Instead of trying to rehash the same exchanges we tend to have in these types of discussions.

I’m open to discuss the limitations concerning iPadOS and how to overcome them, but the solutions seems to always lead to bring macOS to the iPad.

 

[prospervic]

Or Apple could improve their product in some meaningful way to address both enthusiasts and entry level couch users. I doubt it though. For now, if you already know that an iPad cannot perform the tasks that you need performed, just go with the tools that do what you need. A CPU and display evolution will not move the needle dramatically at this point.

[EDIT: added missing words.] I was being tongue-in-cheek in my comment. But if we pretend we are Apple, what financial incentive would there be to invest in creating a version of macOS for iPad? So that people could buy one product when they're currently buying two, and thereby decrease our revenue? Our stockholders would howl and Tim Cook would be shown the door.

 

[prospervic]

I’m open to discuss the limitations concerning iPadOS and how to overcome them, but the solutions seems to always lead to bring macOS to the iPad.

Which is a very simplistic an unimaginative solution. While we're at, let's bring macOS to the iPhone, too!

 

[cthompson94]

Which is a very simplistic an unimaginative solution. While we're at, let's bring macOS to the iPhone, too!

but this is how Apple has been basically marketing the iPad. Of course the advertisements and whatnot state how powerful it is, but outside of spec bumps (which have almost been irrelevant since the M series in the iPad) the headlining features require a MacBook companion.

 

[ericwn]

I was being tongue-in-cheek in my comment. But if we pretend we are Apple, what financial would there be invest in creating a version of macOS for iPad? So that people could buy one product when they're currently buying two, and thereby decrease our revenue? Our stockholders would howl and Tim Cook would be shown the door.

Absolutely true and pretty obvious to many. Instead of focusing on making one device and that as good as it gets Apple is busy going mainstream, covering all different niches with products made to a price point. the nickel and diming seems to work very well for the shareholders so far but every winning streak has a start, and an end At some stage.

 

[Ctrlos]

The iPad has sadly become a victim of its own success. An effective monopoly over the tablet market has meant they haven't needed to bother to innovate in the area for some time. iPadOS continues to exist on crumbs from the iOS and Mac tables and competition from Android devices has amounted to waterproofing. Sales are down and Apple's apparent solution is to finally adopt another industry standard 7 years after Nintendo, the most luddite company out there.

I would hope though that their undercover data collection for Vision Pro development might yield some exciting ideas:

- Gesture control. FaceID is already a miniaturised Kinect. Why not put more of them in and let you manipulate the screen from a short distance away? Great for presentations and external display use.

- Eye tracking. Already possible on Windows imagine drag and drop with just a gaze.

- LiDAR passthrough overlays fed back to a larger display. Great for filming experiments although niche.

- Location awareness via LiDAR and GPS to lock-in workspaces per area. Siloed perhaps so you cannot run games at work and vice-versa.

- Lenticular 3D display for depth to the OS and apps. Would look cool.

- 3D Pencil for modelling

 

[iPadified]

Thanks for confirming. Exactly the point. Just speak for your own interests.

Do you really mean it is not fair to assume people are doing rational choices during purchase?

If you want to attack something it would be "I think most people buy a iPad because it is not a Mac". That is an opinion. Attacking my assumption that people are rational makes no sense.

Remember, about twice as many iPads are sold per year compared to Macs. Do you really think the majority of the iPad purchases are to replace Macs? Then a decline in Mac sales would be observed and it is not. iPads replaced Mac for consumption, single app work, drawing and simpler tasks because it is convenient and easy to use device for these tasks. Beyond that: use a Mac.

The OP and others should stop dreaming.

EDIT: Despite my "name", I use Mac 80% of my time and 20% iPads but it varies. Each for different tasks. I strongly think iPads should not be for the expert use cases and as long iPadOS gets more capable without being complicated and stay true to its core function and market, fine by all means make it more capable.

 

[Yebubbleman]

As we anxiously wait for the new iPad Pro to be announced, I am once again pondering the dilemma of the iPad Pro. Do I let it be what it is; which is the best tablet ever made, or do I continue to push and complain to make it I know it can be; the one and only device I need.

As a tablet, the iPad has always been the most amazing device to use for media consumption and light productivity work in bed, on the couch, on the go, and at a table. It has only gotten more capable over time and with the addition of keyboards, pencil, and pointer input, it has grown to be capable of performing 80% of my work and personal workflow. 70% it does easily, 10% it does clumsily compared to a Mac, and 20% it just can’t do. The things it just can’t do are a combination of iPadOS limitations and iPad productivity apps not having feature parity with the Mac equivalent.

Apple never said the iPad could replace your Mac (though for many it can) so I had no reason to complain. Apple just kept making iPadOS incrementally better and kept working to make it work better with a Mac. Stage Manager, Handoff, Sidecar, Universal Control are amazing and magical features and really do reduce the friction between Mac and iPad.

The problem started when Mac transitioned from Intel to ARM processors in 2020. Suddenly, the chip architecture between the iPad and Mac was the same and with that came expectations. While the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pro still ran an A12 processor the expectations were manageable since Mac were on the M1 chip. Nevermind that the A12 could easily run MacOS, the names were different so expectations were managed. In 2021 Apple announced that the iPad Pro would now run the same M1 chip as Macs and the expectations went through the roof that somehow iPads could or would run MacOS or at least Mac applications. Even RAM was published for the first time ever on iPad and it was possible to get 16GB of RAM with a storage upgrade to 1TB. The expectations came crashing down at WWDC in 2021 when iPadOS 15 was announced bringing very little in terms of new features.

I got swept up in the tornado of expectations and the thought of my M1 iPad Pro suddenly satisfying 100% of my workflow, was a dream come true. No more “do I chance only bringing my iPad Pro for that weekend trip and praying that work doesn’t come up with something that is a roadblock on iPadOS” dilemma. Ditching my heavy 16” Macbook Pro for the weekend was a worthy goal. After the rage subsided, I began to understand why Apple would never let iPad run MacOS even though it could. To do so would entail requiring a keyboard and external mouse, and then some sort of dual boot capability. On top of that it would mean disabling the touch screen when running MacOS. Requiring extra hardware, dual booting, and disabling hardware features is just not the type of user experience Apple wants. I don’t like it but I get it.

More irritating to me is Apple’s insistence on blocking other ways I could get that last 10% of workflow and go “iPad Pro only”. Hypervisor support was removed in iPadOS 16 meaning that ability to someday run a MacOS virtual machine was taken away. Apple’s strict control over which apps get allowed in the App store is also heavy handed and limiting.

The salt in the wound of all of this is that price for an iPad Pro 12.9” in many cases exceeds a Macbook. Sometimes I shake my head and wonder why I spent $1300 on a device that doesn’t even allow me to manage my music library, doesn’t allow me to rename files while downloading from internet, and many other irritating nits that $300 2010 Macbook Air can do easily.

In spite of this, I know that this week or next week I am going to do what I know I shouldn’t do. I am going to spend $2000+ or more on a new iPad Pro with 16GB of RAM and Magic Keyboard; hoping, wishing for a miracle from Apple that will make it the only device I need. It won’t happen but at least I know I’ll have the best tablet ever made.

You'll always need a phone. Not a cellular tablet, but an actual phone. Because even cellular tablets cannot receive 2FA/MFA codes and there is too much of that required by society in 2024.

Barring that, a 12.9-inch iPad Pro could replace a MacBook Air, provided the apps you used for your MacBook Air (a) existed for iPadOS, (b) were more or less functionally interchangeable between macOS versions. Also (c) you don't have a reliance on a proper file system. Those are all big iff's.

I think, like you said, the price is prohibitive; even for replacing the purposes that folks use a MacBook Air for. It's not priced to replace a MacBook Air. It's priced to be used for professional tasks that somehow are better done on an iPad Pro than a MacBook Pro (which arguably is limited to drawing).

If it were less expensive, it'd be a reasonable thing to try to sell someone on replacing their MacBook Air with. For now, even as a 12.9-inch iPad Pro user, myself, it's hard to consider it as a viable main tool. Hell, I might try to get an M1 model from Apple's Apple Certified Refurbished iPad section of their online store, just to see how M1 changes things and then that might be my last 12.9-inch iPad Pro, let alone iPad Pro in general. Samsung sells a similar product, the Galaxy Tab S9+, and there seems to be a way higher bang-to-buck ratio there. Though, my use cases with an iPad Pro are pretty much basic web usage, note-taking (my main use for a 12.9-inch iPad Pro), e-mail, and Hearthstone and these things are not exclusive to 12.9-inch iPad Pros.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

As we anxiously wait for the new iPad Pro to be announced, I am once again pondering the dilemma of the iPad Pro. Do I let it be what it is; which is the best tablet ever made, or do I continue to push and complain to make it I know it can be; the one and only device I need.

As a tablet, the iPad has always been the most amazing device to use for media consumption and light productivity work in bed, on the couch, on the go, and at a table. It has only gotten more capable over time and with the addition of keyboards, pencil, and pointer input, it has grown to be capable of performing 80% of my work and personal workflow. 70% it does easily, 10% it does clumsily compared to a Mac, and 20% it just can’t do. The things it just can’t do are a combination of iPadOS limitations and iPad productivity apps not having feature parity with the Mac equivalent.

Apple never said the iPad could replace your Mac (though for many it can) so I had no reason to complain. Apple just kept making iPadOS incrementally better and kept working to make it work better with a Mac. Stage Manager, Handoff, Sidecar, Universal Control are amazing and magical features and really do reduce the friction between Mac and iPad.

The problem started when Mac transitioned from Intel to ARM processors in 2020. Suddenly, the chip architecture between the iPad and Mac was the same and with that came expectations. While the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pro still ran an A12 processor the expectations were manageable since Mac were on the M1 chip. Nevermind that the A12 could easily run MacOS, the names were different so expectations were managed. In 2021 Apple announced that the iPad Pro would now run the same M1 chip as Macs and the expectations went through the roof that somehow iPads could or would run MacOS or at least Mac applications. Even RAM was published for the first time ever on iPad and it was possible to get 16GB of RAM with a storage upgrade to 1TB. The expectations came crashing down at WWDC in 2021 when iPadOS 15 was announced bringing very little in terms of new features.

I got swept up in the tornado of expectations and the thought of my M1 iPad Pro suddenly satisfying 100% of my workflow, was a dream come true. No more “do I chance only bringing my iPad Pro for that weekend trip and praying that work doesn’t come up with something that is a roadblock on iPadOS” dilemma. Ditching my heavy 16” Macbook Pro for the weekend was a worthy goal. After the rage subsided, I began to understand why Apple would never let iPad run MacOS even though it could. To do so would entail requiring a keyboard and external mouse, and then some sort of dual boot capability. On top of that it would mean disabling the touch screen when running MacOS. Requiring extra hardware, dual booting, and disabling hardware features is just not the type of user experience Apple wants. I don’t like it but I get it.

More irritating to me is Apple’s insistence on blocking other ways I could get that last 10% of workflow and go “iPad Pro only”. Hypervisor support was removed in iPadOS 16 meaning that ability to someday run a MacOS virtual machine was taken away. Apple’s strict control over which apps get allowed in the App store is also heavy handed and limiting.

The salt in the wound of all of this is that price for an iPad Pro 12.9” in many cases exceeds a Macbook. Sometimes I shake my head and wonder why I spent $1300 on a device that doesn’t even allow me to manage my music library, doesn’t allow me to rename files while downloading from internet, and many other irritating nits that $300 2010 Macbook Air can do easily.

In spite of this, I know that this week or next week I am going to do what I know I shouldn’t do. I am going to spend $2000+ or more on a new iPad Pro with 16GB of RAM and Magic Keyboard; hoping, wishing for a miracle from Apple that will make it the only device I need. It won’t happen but at least I know I’ll have the best tablet ever made.

Why would Apple ever in their wildest dreams let one iPad+Mac combo super device eat up sales of iPad 10.9", iPad Air, iPad Pro, Mac mini, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Studio, Mac Pro, when all of the products I just mentioned sell well and earn Apple high profit margins?

What business would invert its billion dollar business model that has worked exceptionally well for over a decade?

I'm not saying the current iPad is what you want or what's in the best interest of consumers' workflows or wallets.

But don't expect Apple to willingly destroy the niche that it has carved for iPad. A MacBook with an iPad-like touch display or an iPad running macOS would do that in a heartbeat.

An iPad+Mac combo is the literal anthesis to Apple's market dominating product strategy.

Never, never, never.

 

[bscheffel]

Why would Apple ever in their wildest dreams let one iPad+Mac combo super device eat up sales of iPad 10.9", iPad Air, iPad Pro, Mac mini, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Studio, Mac Pro, when all of the products I just mentioned sell well and earn Apple high profit margins?

What business would invert its billion dollar business model that has worked exceptionally well for over a decade?

I'm not saying the current iPad is what you want or what's in the best interest of consumers' workflows or wallets.

But don't expect Apple to willingly destroy the niche that it has carved for iPad. A MacBook with an iPad-like touch display or an iPad running macOS would do that in a heartbeat.

An iPad+Mac combo is the literal anthesis to Apple's market dominating product strategy.

Never, never, never.

If the reports are to be believed Apple is already working on a touchscreen Mac and folding laptop. I think at some point a hybrid device of some sort that combines Smartphone/Tablet Tablet/Laptop is inevitable, especially if folding devices gain traction.

 

[HiVolt]

My 2017 iPad Pro has the same OS limitations as the latest M2 iPad Pro, and presumably the upcoming iPad Pro.

That's it's biggest flaw IMO. Like I've said before, I waited with baited breath for the M1 iPad Pro to offer a dual boot solution so you can use MacOS with it if you so desired, with the magic keyboard. My wallet was ready. That never came. So i continue to use my old iPad just fine.

 

[kimjongbill]

I'm probably gonna catch some heat for this, but I think if the DOJ investigation leads to side loading on the iPad, I think it would fundamentally change what an iPad is capable of. There is one app I use every day (anki flashcards). Whereas on the desktop you have any number of extensions you can use, the mobile app is restricted because of the App Store limitations, to the point where us med students always carry around on our computers to access the full desktop client. It's something so simple, but the App Store limitations are impeding that app's ability to reach the potential of the desktop version. And that's just for a flashcard app! The ability of using plug ins in apps like Final Cut (maybe not the best example) or things like emulators would be huge for closing that gap.

I'm just really frustrated with the pace of iPad improvements. There's nothing like anxiously awaiting WWDC to see what new functionality we get with iPadOS, only to see that it's not coming this year, maybe next time! By having more variety and hand-holding through side loading, I really think that we can see the iPad become a completely different tool: in a good way.

 

[netflixobama]

I bought a top of the line iPad Pro, with keyboard and pencil, as a replacement for having a proper computer. I don't know why I did, I've had a computer since I was 12 and love playing around on computers. I guess I got totally sucked into the Apple marketing about it.
I really had a good go at it, used it without having a computer for 2 years, even using it for work during Covid for a few months until they gave me a laptop.
When I got the opportunity to get a cheap second hand Macbook Pro, I was surprised how much better it was. This is some old, Intel chip, runs hot, no working battery at all, and it's a million times more useful than my iPad.
I still like my iPad. I take it travelling to watch movies on the plane instead of the crappy in flight system. It's good for scrolling social media and news at home. But you can do that on a low end iPad, totally unnecessary to have a pro.

 

[netflixobama]

Why would Apple ever in their wildest dreams let one iPad+Mac combo super device eat up sales of iPad 10.9", iPad Air, iPad Pro, Mac mini, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Studio, Mac Pro, when all of the products I just mentioned sell well and earn Apple high profit margins?

What business would invert its billion dollar business model that has worked exceptionally well for over a decade?

I'm not saying the current iPad is what you want or what's in the best interest of consumers' workflows or wallets.

But don't expect Apple to willingly destroy the niche that it has carved for iPad. A MacBook with an iPad-like touch display or an iPad running macOS would do that in a heartbeat.

An iPad+Mac combo is the literal anthesis to Apple's market dominating product strategy.

Never, never, never.

I'd add to that, what other company has successfully merged a tablet and a computer functionality? Microsoft has been trying since the 90s. It just doesn't really work.

 

[Ghost31]

We’ve all heard this for years. Truth is, anybody that got an ipad and was trying to FORCE it to fit their lives knowing damn well it wasnt for them can’t be surprised when in the end they want something else.

As someone thats been there from the beginning, it’s been amazing seeing the iPad grow into what it has become today. But yeah. It’s not for everybody

 

[wave84]

I also tried the iPad life for about a year and a half, not for work but for "relaxation and very light work" usage and I still ended up getting a Macbook Air instead. Basically, there were a few issues for me:

- any kind of typing without an external keyboard is a hassle

- software, software, software. Lack of control over the device meant that I had to do a lot of compromises. The Internet is unusable for me without adblockers but I could only manage adblockers to work in Safari. That means I could no longer use Chrome, which I used on my desktop and synced everything. Youtube in a browser was such a hassle, and as an app, you had to buy Premium. I had to buy all sorts of apps for all kinds of use cases, like to SSH into my server

- without a stand, it's not as comfortable as a laptop for longer sessions of use. The moment you start adding accessories, not only the price goes up a lot but also the weight, and it no longer makes sense at that point for me

So once I got a M2 Air for these tasks, I felt so liberated.

I feel like Apple missed a gigantic opportunity here. The iPad with M chips should have had some sort of dual boot support and for those who really wanted it, they could have switched to MacOS by attaching a keyboard. I don't think it would have "cannibalised" their laptops much, it would have been a feature for power users anyway.

On another note, if they can't manage to unify their OSes (which I would have done), I don't understand why they don't at least come up with something like Samsung Dex. Every time I watched a Dex video while having an iPad I wished for that feature so much. It would have fixed a lot of issues with using it professionally imo.

They would have been at the forefront of ultimate computing, which in my vision is an iPhone as a single computing device that attaches wirelessly to a monitor, keyboard and mouse and that that point you get a desktop experience. Actually, I think technologically only the wireless video feed is not there yet to make that happen now.

 

[cthompson94]

I also tried the iPad life for about a year and a half, not for work but for "relaxation and very light work" usage and I still ended up getting a Macbook Air instead. Basically, there were a few issues for me:

- any kind of typing without an external keyboard is a hassle

- software, software, software. Lack of control over the device meant that I had to do a lot of compromises. The Internet is unusable for me without adblockers but I could only manage adblockers to work in Safari. That means I could no longer use Chrome, which I used on my desktop and synced everything. Youtube in a browser was such a hassle, and as an app, you had to buy Premium. I had to buy all sorts of apps for all kinds of use cases, like to SSH into my server

- without a stand, it's not as comfortable as a laptop for longer sessions of use. The moment you start adding accessories, not only the price goes up a lot but also the weight, and it no longer makes sense at that point for me

So once I got a M2 Air for these tasks, I felt so liberated.

I feel like Apple missed a gigantic opportunity here. The iPad with M chips should have had some sort of dual boot support and for those who really wanted it, they could have switched to MacOS by attaching a keyboard. I don't think it would have "cannibalised" their laptops much, it would have been a feature for power users anyway.

On another note, if they can't manage to unify their OSes (which I would have done), I don't understand why they don't at least come up with something like Samsung Dex. Every time I watched a Dex video while having an iPad I wished for that feature so much. It would have fixed a lot of issues with using it professionally imo.

They would have been at the forefront of ultimate computing, which in my vision is an iPhone as a single computing device that attaches wirelessly to a monitor, keyboard and mouse and that that point you get a desktop experience. Actually, I think technologically only the wireless video feed is not there yet to make that happen now.

I agree especially with the Dex opinion. It would turn the iPad a bit closer in to that computer-like device that Apple at least used to advertise about without cutting that deeply into the Mac sales since using a tablet as a computer is still a niche market. The accessories seem to be one of the biggest pain to any article/post/video I have seen about people trying to use the iPad as their sole device and as much between keyboards, docks, external monitor(s), USB hubs, possibly microphone and these are just standard things that people may need for a basic workload which turns an already expensive device to probably more than would be spent on a Macbook Pro. Actually the iPad already costs more than some Mac models while spec wise being pretty close to the same minus the keyboard which is already insane and maybe the XDR screen.