iPad Pro iPad Pro: Very Disappointing

[bcortens]

Why do you assume I am confused, you say that to do what? I am not confused, I am making the point that it is Apple that is confused, and has been for a very long time, it has created a problem with ipads, what to do, what is the next step...

The iPad is a great product that serves millions of people well. It is not a confused product, while many of us on here wish it had some extra capabilities the fact is that the OS serves most of the buyers well. The keyboard attachment doesnt make it confusing for people, people don’t attach keyboards and suddenly their brains can’t process or figure out what to do with their iPads.
I say you’re confused because you can’t seem to grasp that the iPad has a reasonable place in Apples lineup as an easy to use touch first computing device.

Making 3 operating systems makes no sense, M/soft tried this and it was not successful, Apple controls the hardware, so make the hardware use the same code, across all devices, phones operate as computers, using voice over IP, data calls, since day 1, it was never analogue..

Apple has been very successful with their focussed OS strategy, that Microsoft fails says more about them than it does the validity of the strategy.

Phones are micro computers, the laptops are the big sister, the middle sister is the ipad, they should all use the same code, regardless of screen ability, how is that confusing??

Since they all are used in different ways having a focussed user interface for each that is tailored to their unique form factor and designs makes more sense than using the same UI across all 3, this has proven to be a winning strategy that seems to make most users happy.

 

[JustinePaula]

Where does the User Experience end and the code start? Is this where the issue lies?

 

[h.gilbert]

Your response made claims and opinions that pertain or relate to only you, and your experience....Not facts pertaining to the iPad itself and the experience everyone else has to have, or is having. It may be, "just a big iPhone with a crippling OS not suited to any serious work except drawing" to you, but to me and many others, it is a very capable tablet computer. It has an OS that has allowed me to run my real estate business easily, while cutting my workflow, and making my work fun again...for over two years now.

I understand that you and many others can't use it the way you like to, or the way you think you should be able to, but you at the same time need to acquiesce to the fact that many people can(even if many people can't), and do replace their laptops and use the iPad for productivity, or even use the iPad and a MBP or PC in unison for productivity, and entertainment.

Yes, me saying iPad OS is not suited to serious work is obviously an opinion. How could I ever claim that as a fact when this whole thing is so subjective. I thought that goes without saying. What you're trying to get to here is pointless. We all have different opinions.

 

[bondr006]

I’m not judging another person’s profession, I just doubt that the tasks a real estate business owner performs on their computer require any overly complex operations performed on a computer.
You’re easily triggered by the term art. And it’s not about what the world needs but about what certain tasks require from a computer. Which leads me to:

I wasn’t meant that way. I was merely telling that person that their computer requirements for running a simple business do not translate to other work done on a computer.
Be that computationally or creatively complex.

You mean things like creating and filling contracts, creating pdf's and Word documents, taking notes, drawing property and house dimensions, taking and editing photos and videos for listing in the MLS, entering and maintaining listings in the local MLS Paragon web app, intense communication with clients, creating and maintaining Excel worksheets to keep track of clients and expenses, and sooo much more?

Owning an in your opinion "simple" business might be easy to take care of on a simple device, but you are obviously not familiar with what is involved in a real estate business. Don't know about your state, but in NC you must take an 8 week pre-licensing class, 3 post licensing classes, 8 to 12 hours of continuing education every year, ethics classes, maintain a membership in the MLS and NAR, and that is all to just maintain your license. I will admit that while it is not rocket science, it's a lot more involved than just wearing a suit, and walking around with a briefcase.

 

[h.gilbert]

Understood. I hope you can also see that evaluating iPad Pro through the lens of whether a use case is better handled on it vs macOS is just one way of seeing things. For me and I suspect others, context is also a factor and being able to do something better in a particular context has tremendous value.

For example: Problem Solving and Planning — outlining issues/challenges, identifying root causes, and developing a solution — across multiple domains using the same apps I use on my MacBook Pro (Noteplan, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Xcode Playgrounds, Freeform and others) is infinitely better on my iPad Pro because I can do it in a “lean back” setting that is optimal for contemplation, or because I can chip away at a problem that is not amenable to a ‘one-shot’ solution easier on the iPad Pro than on the Mac with macOS.

This is just one example, but I’m sure others can outline additional, non-drawing, scenarios where they prefer to use the iPad and iPadOS even when they have the option to use a Mac and macOS.

Net-net: The constraints of the iPad and iPadOS (like those of the Mac and macOS) are design choices to align the device to a particular mode of computing, they are not shortcomings. And the iPad is much more than just a big iPhone for those who see it for what it is and use it the way it was intended vs trying to force it to do what we wish it could do.

Yeah I'm completely different. Word, Excel, Google Sheets and research on the internet is much better on a laptop because of a better keyboard, track pad, proper file system and it's actually more comfortable having a properly weighted system with a heavier keyboard base and a firmly attached screen.

 

[heretiq]

Yeah I'm completely different. Word, Excel, Google Sheets and research on the internet is much better on a laptop because of a better keyboard, track pad, proper file system and it's actually more comfortable having a properly weighted system with a heavier keyboard base and a firmly attached screen.

Understood, makes sense and accepted. There are many forms of “real work” and many details, complications, and nuances of each that are only visible to those actually doing the work. Layer on variations in preferred work styles .. and how a device intersects with both (the work and preferred work styles) and it becomes clear that simple pronouncements about a particular device‘s unsuitability for “real work” is likely to be wrong for many — so best to prefix opinions with IMO (even if it is implied) to keep conversations productive on enthusiast forums such as these. I’ve relearned this multiple times myself. 😂

 

[johnnytravels]

You mean things like creating and filling contracts, creating pdf's and Word documents, taking notes, drawing property and house dimensions, taking and editing photos and videos for listing in the MLS, entering and maintaining listings in the local MLS Paragon web app, intense communication with clients, creating and maintaining Excel worksheets to keep track of clients and expenses, and sooo much more?

Owning an in your opinion "simple" business might be easy to take care of on a simple device, but you are obviously not familiar with what is involved in a real estate business. Don't know about your state, but in NC you must take an 8 week pre-licensing class, 3 post licensing classes, 8 to 12 hours of continuing education every year, ethics classes, maintain a membership in the MLS and NAR, and that is all to just maintain your license. I will admit that while it is not rocket science, it's a lot more involved than just wearing a suit, and walking around with a briefcase.

I get that you have a lot going on, that’s still not my point, which is that all the tasks you perform can easily be done on an iPad. But editing a proper movie, writing a complex piece of music with lots of extra plugins, or even writing an academic paper with citation manager and lots of other docs open for reference require making compromises that actually make the tasks harder to do than with a regular computer…

 

[sparksd]

I get that you have a lot going on, that’s still not my point, which is that all the tasks you perform can easily be done on an iPad. But editing a proper movie, writing a complex piece of music with lots of extra plugins, or even writing an academic paper with citation manager and lots of other docs open for reference require making compromises that actually make the tasks harder to do than with a regular computer…

Which is why a lot of us say - use the right tool for the job. I did real rocket science and we sure didn't use iPads or even laptops.

 

[h.gilbert]

Understood, makes sense and accepted. There are many forms of “real work” and many details, complications, and nuances of each that are only visible to those actually doing the work. Layer on variations in preferred work styles .. and how a device intersects with both (the work and preferred work styles) and it becomes clear that simple pronouncements about a particular device‘s unsuitability for “real work” is likely to be wrong for many — so best to prefix opinions with IMO (even if it is implied) to keep conversations productive on enthusiast forums such as these. I’ve relearned this multiple times myself. 😂

Good points.

Yes I've come to realise some here need me to explicitly state what I say is my opinion.

"That doesn't taste good" despite being said like a fact is clearly an opinion.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

The iPad is a great product that serves millions of people well. It is not a confused product, while many of us on here wish it had some extra capabilities the fact is that the OS serves most of the buyers well. The keyboard attachment doesnt make it confusing for people, people don’t attach keyboards and suddenly their brains can’t process or figure out what to do with their iPads.
I say you’re confused because you can’t seem to grasp that the iPad has a reasonable place in Apples lineup as an easy to use touch first computing device.

Apple has been very successful with their focussed OS strategy, that Microsoft fails says more about them than it does the validity of the strategy.

Since they all are used in different ways having a focussed user interface for each that is tailored to their unique form factor and designs makes more sense than using the same UI across all 3, this has proven to be a winning strategy that seems to make most users happy.

Exactly, my life became much easier when I realized that all I need an iPad for is honestly Apple Pencil support. Everything else is better for me on a Mac. I can customize everything to exactly how I like it. No window snapping? Add BetterSnapTool. Need keyboard shortcuts to run specific scripts? Add Alfred. There is always a third party solution (and it doesn't even need to be in the App Store). No streaming apps? Friendly Browser, FTW. Terminal commands, etc., all work perfectly on a mac, so why try to reinvent the wheel? All my trying to get by with just iPadOS made me appreciate the flexibility of MacOS more.

I will probably just get a used iPad Air of whatever the next to latest generation is if/when my current one breaks. And use it like a secondary device. Which it is for me. There are others who use it as their primary device because their workflows allow it, and that is great, but I am done pretending the iPad software will ever match up with the hardware.

 

[chmania]

No window snapping? Add BetterSnapTool...

Have you tried snApp?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Have you tried snApp?

Looks decent, I'll take a look. Thanks!

 

[johnnytravels]

Which is why a lot of us say - use the right tool for the job. I did real rocket science and we sure didn't use iPads or even laptops.

Exactly what I was saying, thank you!

 

[grad]

They are all different and complementary products. Like most, I have a desktop, a laptop, a tablet, and a smartphone (ok, more than just one in each category and I am not including servers, SBCs, etc). Like most, I have considered trimming down to 2 or 3 devices but I have never felt comfortable enough with any of the combinations.

There is no way ANY laptop (let alone tablet and smartphone) can replace my desktop/workstation. I need a separate keyboard, I need a mouse, I need multiple large screens, I need expandability, I need upgradeability, I need maintainability, I need CPU/GPU power, I need storage and network throughput that exceeds the capabilities of laptops. And even though Desktop OSes and Desktop apps have been regressing into mimicking mobile-like UIs in this era (ugly UIs designed by youngsters or targeting youngsters or non-tech-savvy users) they are still better than what I can get in Android and iOS world.

Since I mostly use a laptop for bringing and continuing work from home to workplace, give a presentation, etc I played with the idea of replacing my old i9 MacBook Pro with my iPad Pro. It never worked. It was never easy to type, select, search, move, scroll in iOS, it was never efficient to use a mouse, it was never easy to connect to old Video Projectors, it was a PITA to live without analog audio output. There were many situations where I needed Ethernet instead of WiFi, times where I needed data exchange using physical storage instead of the cloud. I found myself carrying multiple dongles and being frustrated every day with both the hardware and the software.

At home, I NEVER use a laptop. If I am not computing sitting at my desk using my desktop then I will be using an iPad on the couch for checking (not writing) messages, videos, reading/annotating PDFs with the Apple pencil, maybe even a bit of Web browsing (IF it is about simple things and doesn't require typing, opening tabs in the background, finding text, etc). I also use the iPad if I want to browse=search=discover music albums, composers, artists, genres, etc on Spotify, Audirvana, or LyrionMusicServer and play it through my audio streamer. If I only need to pick a playlist and start playing it then I am fine with a smartphone and the corresponding apps. For video & movies on Plex I am ok with just using my AppleTV.

I have entertained the idea of replacing my smartphone with a standalone smartwatch (i.e. mainly used for phone calls and checking messages) plus an iPad Mini (whenever it is possible to carry a bag). I'd rather wear my old Casio any day, it doesn't need to be charged daily, a beeping alarm is all I need from an alarm, I only miss the smartphone, I don't really care about photos. Sometimes less is more, I find myself wasting hours and hours looking on my smartphone, waiting for an email or SMS, reading silly news and videos, playing silly games, etc, and I do not even do social networks (LinkedIn doesn't count). I feel addicted to Internet and there is no easy way out.

If I am on the go (bus/train/flight) then it is most certain that I will be carrying a bag - I can always listen to music and watch movies on the iPad I am carrying. But it will be a struggle if I need to operate on one hand, translate, etc - the smartphone is mandatory there. If driving, then I am not sure if it would be possible to replace a smartphone with a smartwatch for Google Auto or Apple CarPlay. ONE thing that has helped reducing the clutter is having a single USB-C charger for everything (thank you EU).

Eventually, I have resigned to the idea that I will never be able to reduce the number of devices I use daily without getting frustrated. Still, it would be 10x worse if the industry keeps consolidating and dumbing down software and UI. One size doesn't fit all.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

Not wanting to state the obvious, but it’s not a laptop. If you are not taking advantage of the touch screen (and pen) and portability as a tablet then a laptop is the better product. Just because it’s price is “into laptop territory” does not make it a laptop.

I don’t have a magic mouse but a 5 second “Google” came up with lots of videos of scrolling, here is one

I use MS Office on it - granted it’s no MS Windows Office but I wouldn’t call it “fairly slow” but I have a bugbear with MS on iPad - so let‘s not go there.

I use my Gen 5 iPP for everything .It has 16 GB Ram, 2 TB storage,and the M1 Chip. It never struggles,is wicked fast, even works,just perfectly with the Apple Mouse. I’m keeping this till it dies in front of me. 2 TB of storage makes it soar! Love it, serves me well!

 

[cardfan]

I get that you have a lot going on, that’s still not my point, which is that all the tasks you perform can easily be done on an iPad. But editing a proper movie, writing a complex piece of music with lots of extra plugins, or even writing an academic paper with citation manager and lots of other docs open for reference require making compromises that actually make the tasks harder to do than with a regular computer…

I get that. Couldn’t use one for my work. But many can. I simply didn’t see the harm in letting macOS load via bootcamp or virtual in iPadOS. If possible.

This doesn’t stop making your iPad an iPad. Use iPad os. Have at it. But give some others options. Why would anyone be against this? It shouldn’t even be a debate. If you don’t want it don’t use it.

 

[bondr006]

I get that. Couldn’t use one for my work. But many can. I simply didn’t see the harm in letting macOS load via bootcamp or virtual in iPadOS. If possible.

This doesn’t stop making your iPad an iPad. Use iPad os. Have at it. But give some others options. Why would anyone be against this? It shouldn’t even be a debate. If you don’t want it don’t use it.

I agree wholeheartedly!!!

Post in thread 'iPad Pro: Very Disappointing'
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-pro-very-disappointing.2423335/post-33060691

 

[bcortens]

I agree wholeheartedly!!!

Post in thread 'iPad Pro: Very Disappointing'
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-pro-very-disappointing.2423335/post-33060691

I doubt we'll see dual booting but I wouldn't be apposed to them letting people run macOS in a VM on iPads. I mean the hardware is all there to support VMs anyway it would be a fairly easy solution. My only hesitation is that it may lead to devs not bothering to port their Mac apps to iPad and I can see Apple not wanting to do so for that reason.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I doubt we'll see dual booting but I wouldn't be apposed to them letting people run macOS in a VM on iPads. I mean the hardware is all there to support VMs anyway it would be a fairly easy solution. My only hesitation is that it may lead to devs not bothering to port their Mac apps to iPad and I can see Apple not wanting to do so for that reason.

Apple would not do it for a whole lot more reason than that. Mainly forcing someone to have two devices...

With the rumors for the M4 having hardware AI, it will be interesting to see to what extent that is even possible with iPads and iPhones. the M4 line may lead to a resurgence with the Mac line. And might have to have enough power that it just isn't possible in the iPad chassis.

 

[johnnytravels]

I get that. Couldn’t use one for my work. But many can. I simply didn’t see the harm in letting macOS load via bootcamp or virtual in iPadOS. If possible.

This doesn’t stop making your iPad an iPad. Use iPad os. Have at it. But give some others options. Why would anyone be against this? It shouldn’t even be a debate. If you don’t want it don’t use it.

Thanks. I am totally fine not using an iPad.
The whole point of my comments is still to point out that saying “well but I use my iPad for work so saying that someone cannot use it for their work is incorrect” is in fact incorrect.

 

[yabeweb]

I get that. Couldn’t use one for my work. But many can. I simply didn’t see the harm in letting macOS load via bootcamp or virtual in iPadOS. If possible.

This doesn’t stop making your iPad an iPad. Use iPad os. Have at it. But give some others options. Why would anyone be against this? It shouldn’t even be a debate. If you don’t want it don’t use it.

I guess many developers would stop making an iPad app version if you could run Mac OS on the iPad.
I mean why invest resources in making an iPad Affinity (just an example) if you could just make the Mac OS version and save money and make people use it on iPad trough “bootcamp”?

 

[bondr006]

I guess many developers would stop making an iPad app version if you could run Mac OS on the iPad.
I mean why invest resources in making an iPad Affinity (just an example) if you could just make the Mac OS version and save money and make people use it on iPad trough “bootcamp”?

I don't see that happening. The only iPads that would be able to potentially run Mac OS are the ones running Apple M silicon chips, and depending how they implemented Mac OS on the iPad, there would still be the need for iPads to run iPad OS. Maybe like I suggested some posts back, Mac OS only when attached to external monitor, keyboard, and mouse or trackpad in desktop mod, and iPad OS while in tablet mode. Even if they decided to use VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop, the iPad would still be natively running iPad OS....and need iPad OS apps.

 

[yabeweb]

I don't see that happening. The only iPads that would be able to potentially run Mac OS are the ones running Apple silicon, and depending how they implemented Mac OS on the iPad, there would still be the need for iPads to run iPad OS. Maybe like I suggested some posts back, Mac OS only when attached to external monitor, keyboard, and mouse or trackpad in desktop mod, and in iPad OS while in tablet mode. Even if they decided to use VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop, the iPad would still be natively running iPad OS....and need iPad OS apps.

I just don’t see the need for Mac OS on an iPad, I buy iPad to be an iPad, if i needed as Mac I’d buy a MacBook Air, better value for a computer.

I like the iPad to be an iPad, I think people are buying the wrong tool for their need and pretend Apple “fixes” their wrong choice With a half backed solution.

P.S. I use iPad an my main and only device.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I just don’t see the need for Mac OS on an iPad, I buy iPad to be an iPad, if i needed as Mac I’d buy a MacBook Air, better value for a computer.

I like the iPad to be an iPad, I think people are buying the wrong tool for their need and pretend Apple “fixes” their wrong choice With a half backed solution.

P.S. I use iPad an my main and only device.

That's great! I am really glad you can do that!




However, there are a lot of us who cannot. And if we can get MacOS on the best hardware (iPad Pro) that would be great! And it wouldn't impact you in the slightest! Oh, you mentioned app development stopping for iPadOS in this scenario. Two issues. The first is that most of the apps anyone needs are already created, so they just need to be updated--not much overhead. Secondly, in the event of needing a total rewrite, or a brand new app, they will still make an iPad version because it is both similar in nature to an iPhone app, and like 90% of the install base would still be iPadOS on their iPads. So...not really an issue.

 

[FeliApple]

I can see this topic will keep going in circles regardless of the amount of threads created. Thank you Apple for not obliterating the iPad.