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JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Look iOS makes sense for a phone, but really since the advent of whatsapp, the phone itself is 100% redundant, I have a sammy phone, 100% of my calls are made through whatsapp, I never make "phone" calls, I just whatsapp...So iOS maybe could be replaced with MMOS, Mobile MacOS, a light stripped down version, after all you have apps such as numbers, pages, running on iOS, why not on a light version of Mac OS for Mobiles?

Why does the ipad need iPAD OS, that separates Mac OS from tablets? Why not 1 OS across the whole garden? Why 3 versions, 3 separate versions? 3 times the headaches getting your own internal apps to work across 3 operating systems?

iPadOS and iOS is a design flaw, it was never going to work, there is no justification for 3 different OS for 3 products.. That is just insane..
 

Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
837
1,861
I think many people get something like Paris Syndrome when they get an iPad to use for work. To remind you Paris Syndrome is the following (from Wikipedia):

In other words, people really believe the marketing. They really believe that iPad = computer. And they get one... And it just isn't.

It's like a laptop. But it's a heavily restricted user experience, for all kinds of reasons. It's like a laptop but under school rules. You're just not allowed to do certain things, either because of technical or design limitations. The rules feel weird and arbitrary if you're used to the freedom of a genuine laptop computer.

Now, some people are absolutely fine with these school rules. It's all down to personality and life expectations, I guess. Maybe age, too? Younger people are more prepared to deal with rules, and have grown-up with the arbitrary nature of computing nowadays where we tend to live in walled gardens.

But many people can't deal with the rules. Right now, an iPad is not a computer. It's not a laptop replacement for most people.
'Most people' would be the larger percentage of the population that just need a computer to access the web, file their taxes + other admin and sort out their digital photos, yes? In what way specifically is an iPad not as good as a Macbook at these pretty rudimentary tasks for half the cost? You're right in that the iPad is built for customers who are willing to trade some flexibility for a more controlled experience but this is an attraction, not a flaw.

For the record I use an iPad Pro for work. In no particular and in any given week this will include:

- General web browsing
- Filing government documents
- Capturing 4K video of experiments
- Editing said video for academic clients
- LiDAR scanning exterior areas for environmental science/architecture/planning purposes
- On-device photogrammetry of smaller objects to later process in CAD
- Drawing up technical plans for laser cutting, exporting as DXF
- Adding to and chopping down 3D mesh files for direct 3D printing
- Drawing up 3D CAD renders of particular expermental designs
- Reading through research papers and being able to annotate
- Note taking
- Writing and blogging
- General timekeeping and organisation
- Still teaching myself Swift at a very slow pace
- Interfacing with exterior equipment such as air quality monitors and air speed probes where a mobile app is the only one
- Sketching plans for projects, experiments or designing

- Game streaming from xCloud
- Playing my app store backlog. Currently deep into Hades!
-
Putting together presentations
- Taking conference calls
- General document creation/management

True most of these things can be done with any computer. The things in italics though would need an extra $4k worth of kit to create the required data before importing it into a Mac or Windows machine and then going through another tiresome parsing process before it was anything useful. The iPad isn't perfect. It could really do with a disk utility-type app and the general file browser can somehow create zip files but not open them very well (?!) but on the whole its just as good-a-computer as anything else.
 

JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Ok, but the question is, why iPadOS and not MacOS? If you have 1 system, across all three platforms, there is no data issues, it is the same file, on 3 platforms, for example we don't have 3 versions of mp4... but we need 3 versions of numbers, not sure the best way to explain...

Having 1 universal OS would that be better or worse than 3 as we have right now??
 

Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
837
1,861
Ok, but the question is, why iPadOS and not MacOS? If you have 1 system, across all three platforms, there is no data issues, it is the same file, on 3 platforms, for example we don't have 3 versions of mp4... but we need 3 versions of numbers, not sure the best way to explain...

Having 1 universal OS would that be better or worse than 3 as we have right now??
Under the hood they’re the same. If they made one to fit both you’d have Mac owners complaining about touch friendly icons and buttons.
 
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chmania

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2023
180
73
Under the hood they’re the same. If they made one to fit both you’d have Mac owners complaining about touch friendly icons and buttons.
Not really. All Macs with Sonoma has Stage Manager for example. Does all iPhones or iPads with iOS17 or iPadOS17 has that? It looks like that Apple cannot really make one universal OS for all 3 "computing" devices.

By the way, Stage Manager on Sonoma helps me to disconnect the external monitor from my MBP. If I buy the next Mac, it'd be a Mac Mini M2 or M3 with a curved monitor, as Stage Manager will help. Hope by that time, Apple would add split views as in Win 11 to macOS.
 

JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Under the hood they’re the same. If they made one to fit both you’d have Mac owners complaining about touch friendly icons and buttons.
Under the hood they are the same?? That is like saying a bus is the same as a Mustang, both have engines, a gearbox, wheels, a steering wheel, seats, and a radio....

iOS, MacOS, iPADOS are not the same, I am a mac and ipad owner and I hate that Macs are not the same OS as ipads, that was really poor decision to not have the same.. Look I can understand M/soft goofed, but then M/soft is not a hardware vendor, Apple Inc is, 1 OS for all devices, makes sense, more now than ever..
 

heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
744
1,172
Denver, CO
Ok, but the question is, why iPadOS and not MacOS? If you have 1 system, across all three platforms, there is no data issues, it is the same file, on 3 platforms, for example we don't have 3 versions of mp4... but we need 3 versions of numbers, not sure the best way to explain...

Having 1 universal OS would that be better or worse than 3 as we have right now??
Not sure I’m following this as I think the example of an issue is a non-issue: There is no data issue because iPadOS and macOS are separate. I routinely open, edit and use the same file stored in iCloud on my iPhone (iOS), iPad (iPadOS) and Mac (macOS) from multiple apps (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Numbers, Pages, Keynote, Noteplan, and dozens of other cross platform apps).

To answer your question of why iPadOS and not macOS: The iPad is a tablet device that requires specialized functionality that is different from functionality that a laptop or desktop requires — so building a device optimized OS is a historically recognized best practice (along with sharing some common frameworks across the three OSs) as it minimizes storage/processing resource requirements, allows for device-specific optimization, and improves code maintainability among other things.

Apple has chosen this path vs one universal OS and one indication of the wisdom of this choice is the fact that despite posts like this that get a lot of attention on MR, the iPad is generally recognized and acknowledged as the best tablet hands-down.
 

JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
The ipad requires specialized functionality? We all thought landlines were historically the best way, so we built mobiles phones around this system of numbers linked to a person, "their phone number" this is largely obsolete as we migrate away from landlines and into social media that use email or other formats instead of a string of digits..

No what worked 10 yrs ago, does not apply now, that is a false belief, it does not answer the question, maybe in the next decade we will see the merge of laptops phones and ipads operating systems...

The point is, when you attach a keyboard to the ipad/ipad pro, is it an ipad or a laptop hybrid? We have cars that run on gas, we have cars that run on batteries, and we thought that was a problem, gas cars create pollution, but the range of electric batteries, is too short, so merge the 2, did we change the pedals of the hybrid? NO...

So why change the OS from Mac OS to something not Mac OS.. As I suggested MMOS, Mobile Mac OS.. a hybrid version?
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,216
3,950
For those who think iPads have an inferior OS versus Windows tablets.

If Apple tomorrow announced it was dropping iPadOS in favour for Windows on ARM going forward, that decision would singly destroy Apple's position in the tablet market.

The consistency of UI between iPadOS and iOS is a design feature, not a design flaw.
True because those who would have more utility from an iPad running Windows rather than iPadOS, like myself, are a small minority of sophisticated users, while the vast majority of iPad buyers are better off with iPadOS (even those who don't have an iPhone and a Mac)
 

heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
744
1,172
Denver, CO
The ipad requires specialized functionality? We all thought landlines were historically the best way, so we built mobiles phones around this system of numbers linked to a person, "their phone number" this is largely obsolete as we migrate away from landlines and into social media that use email or other formats instead of a string of digits..

No what worked 10 yrs ago, does not apply now, that is a false belief, it does not answer the question, maybe in the next decade we will see the merge of laptops phones and ipads operating systems...

The point is, when you attach a keyboard to the ipad/ipad pro, is it an ipad or a laptop hybrid? We have cars that run on gas, we have cars that run on batteries, and we thought that was a problem, gas cars create pollution, but the range of electric batteries, is too short, so merge the 2, did we change the pedals of the hybrid? NO...

So why change the OS from Mac OS to something not Mac OS.. As I suggested MMOS, Mobile Mac OS.. a hybrid version?
Yes, the iPad requires specialized functionality. It is a thin, multi-touch device with limited battery capacity and thermal envelope which requires specialized treatment at multiple layers of the hardware/software stack vs a Mac laptop. Apple’s design choices produced a demonstrably best-in-class tablet, albeit imperfect.

To answer your question, when you attach a keyboard to an iPad tablet you have an iPad tablet with a hardware keyboard — nothing more. Apple did not tell you the hardware keyboard would transform the iPad into a laptop hybrid — that is purely your invention.

iPad design choices were made more than a decade ago .. and those choices include the design of iPadOS as an adaptation of macOS to address the iPad specialized functionality as well as Apple’s design intent for the device — which is a tablet, not a laptop hybrid. Will Apple evolve the iPad in this direction in the future? I don’t know, but I doubt it as Apple’s personal computing vision is largely centered around a three device strategy (four if you count the watch .. and perhaps an emerging fifth with Vision) with each device playing a distinct, physical/mental context-based role with sufficient overlap to allow practically seamless computing across contexts (in motion, at-rest, production, contemplation, etc.).

Net-net: ipadOS is a component of a deliberate and very successful strategy — a laptop hybrid collapses this successful strategy into a muddled mess .. and that would be a mistake.
 
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Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
837
1,861
Under the hood they are the same??
Steve Jobs said so himself.

Apple continue to state so.

"iOS Apps on Mac runs your unmodified iPhone and iPad apps on Apple silicon with no porting process. Your apps use the same frameworks and infrastructure that Mac Catalyst apps use to run, but without the need to recompile for the Mac platform"

iOS, MacOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, VisionOS and tvOS are all based on MacOS and share a common codebase. Which means under the hood they are the same, so to speak.
 

Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,954
2,284
Europe
iOS, MacOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, VisionOS and tvOS are all based on MacOS and share a common codebase. Which means under the hood they are the same, so to speak.
You are right to say they are the same. It's all Darwin with the same Kernel, system utilities, daemons, most frameworks, etc. Many people will see the different UI and wrongly conclude the differences run more than skin deep.
 

johnnytravels

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2019
300
793
So? Many would argue art isn't needed in society. Don't judge another person's profession.
I’m not judging another person’s profession, I just doubt that the tasks a real estate business owner performs on their computer require any overly complex operations performed on a computer.
You’re easily triggered by the term art. And it’s not about what the world needs but about what certain tasks require from a computer. Which leads me to:
Could you possibly be any more condescending?
I wasn’t meant that way. I was merely telling that person that their computer requirements for running a simple business do not translate to other work done on a computer.
Be that computationally or creatively complex.
 
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JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
At the end of the day, the user should have a choice about what they use, taken to the extreme, what Apple is done, is build a car that only runs on BP petrol, you cannot use the car if it uses Shell or Mobil petrol...

if the ipad/laptops and phones all run on the same code, then why the different OS's? Something does not add up...

You have a tablet, you then add a keyboard, it works like a laptop, then stop attaching keyboards to ipads.. Take away any code, that allows keyboards to ipads..

Apple is confused about what it wants, it is dictating and that is disgusting.
 

chmania

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2023
180
73
Attaching a keyboard to an iPad doesn't make it a desktop computer. Even adding an external monitor through hub doesn't make it a desktop computer. It simply cannot run macOS.

But, if you connect a keyboard to a Windows tablet, it becomes a desktop computer as it would run the same Windows 11 as in any Windows PC. The same goes for Linux, when we install any Linux distro to that tablet. An iPad connected to a keyboard is just an iPad connected to a keyboard, running its own mobile OS.
 
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bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,203
1,539
Ontario Canada
At the end of the day, the user should have a choice about what they use, taken to the extreme, what Apple is done, is build a car that only runs on BP petrol, you cannot use the car if it uses Shell or Mobil petrol...

if the ipad/laptops and phones all run on the same code, then why the different OS's? Something does not add up...

You have a tablet, you then add a keyboard, it works like a laptop, then stop attaching keyboards to ipads.. Take away any code, that allows keyboards to ipads..

Apple is confused about what it wants, it is dictating and that is disgusting.
Why is adding a keyboard breaking your brain so hard?

it doesn’t stop being an iPad when a keyboard is attached it just becomes an iPad with a superior text entry option. The keyboard lets you do some keyboard related tasks more easily and quickly without any disruption in where you are and what you’re doing. The beauty of the Magic Keyboard and iPadOS keyboard support is in how seemless it is. i normally keep the iPad free and handheld but if I need to quickly type something then I attach it to the keyboard, type it up, and then tear it off again. It’s a great experience That never stops being an iPad at any point.
 
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JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Most of it is just branding.

iPadOS is not suddenly a different OS just because it's no longer called iOS.
Then why call it iPadOS? Why not just AOS, Apple OS, be done with it, the era of named operating systems is long gone, just progressive frequent updates, going by iOS 17, Mac OS Sonoma, ipad OS 2, it just gets confusing...

Just let the devices die off through regular updatting, one day stuff no longer works. But this annual WWDC announcement for something that comes at some point in the next 9 months, give it up... 1 OS for all devices, or or give me the option, let me decide what I want to use, Win11, Linux, Mac OS, ipad OS, iOS.. my own secret sauce..
 
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JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Ipads are handheld devices, add a keyboard, it is functioning as a laptop, a hybrid laptop, but a laptop, it stops being an ipad.. the concept is not hard, if you want ipads, then stop making it possible to use keyboards..
 

bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,203
1,539
Ontario Canada
Then why call it iPadOS? Why not just AOS, Apple OS, be done with it, the era of named operating systems is long gone, just progressive frequent updates, going by iOS 17, Mac OS Sonoma, ipad OS 2, it just gets confusing...

Just let the devices die off through regular updatting, one day stuff no longer works. But this annual WWDC announcement for something that comes at some point in the next 9 months, give it up... 1 OS for all devices, or or give me the option, let me decide what I want to use, Win11, Linux, Mac OS, ipad OS, iOS.. my own secret sauce..
They mostly rebranded IMO to signal to devs and users that they were more committed to iPad OS, which had felt like it had been languishing a bit at the time. Things like Stage Manager and Split view don’t really make sense on an iPhone for example. For the most part they are still the same OS but they obviously have done some divergence of the codebase because iPads and iPhones don’t always get the same features at the same time.
 
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bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,203
1,539
Ontario Canada
Ipads are handheld devices, add a keyboard, it is functioning as a laptop, a hybrid laptop, but a laptop, it stops being an ipad.. the concept is not hard, if you want ipads, then stop making it possible to use keyboards..
You saying a thing doesn’t make it true. iPads are not defined as only handheld, keyboard free devices because you say so, in fact the very first iPad was launched IIRC with a keyboard dock to make using pages and other text entry apps easier to work with. Bluetooth keyboards have been supported from nearly day 1!
 

JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Then they need to change the message, by changing the product, make it clear what the product is, then don't support laptop apps at all, no keyboards, no numbers, pages.. it should be handheld only, Apple is confused, it has created a product it itself does not know what it is...

This is so obvious, the macbook air, the macbook pro, what is the difference, functionally the same device, they even look the same.. Apple has a problem..
 
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bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,203
1,539
Ontario Canada
Then they need to change the message, by changing the product, make it clear what the product is, then don't support laptop apps at all, no keyboards, no numbers, pages.. it should be handheld only, Apple is confused, it has created a product it itself does not know what it is...

This is so obvious, the macbook air, the macbook pro, what is the difference, functionally the same device, they even look the same.. Apple has a problem..
The fact that you are confused doesnt mean anyone else is. Your confusion is not inherent to the product.
 

JustinePaula

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2012
623
258
Why do you assume I am confused, you say that to do what? I am not confused, I am making the point that it is Apple that is confused, and has been for a very long time, it has created a problem with ipads, what to do, what is the next step...

Making 3 operating systems makes no sense, M/soft tried this and it was not successful, Apple controls the hardware, so make the hardware use the same code, across all devices, phones operate as computers, using voice over IP, data calls, since day 1, it was never analogue..

Phones are micro computers, the laptops are the big sister, the middle sister is the ipad, they should all use the same code, regardless of screen ability, how is that confusing??
 
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