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BigMcGuire

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Jan 10, 2012
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As the battery wears it should level off and wear out slower and slower. The initial drop is the fastest usually (unless there is a problem with the battery).

That and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Apple wasn't doing something to stabilize it (often why coconutBattery shows lower %s than Apple does - despite data being pulled from Apple's own stats).
 

mlody

macrumors 68000
Nov 11, 2012
1,592
1,224
Windy City
This!

my 12 Pro Max has been on 83% for almost a year now!
The only reason we got AppleCare+ was to use it for battery replacement, but it seems that wasn't the smartest decision seeing how we are forced to wait till the iPhone is really crippled by the battery before being eligible. I would rather pay out of pocket replacement fee now and move on instead of possibly waiting another year :( This is the first and last AC+ for iPhone that we will be buying - that is for sure!
 

BigMcGuire

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Jan 10, 2012
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The only reason we got AppleCare+ was to use it for battery replacement, but it seems that wasn't the smartest decision seeing how we are forced to wait till the iPhone is really crippled by the battery before being eligible. I would rather pay out of pocket replacement fee now and move on instead of possibly waiting another year :( This is the first and last AC+ for iPhone that we will be buying - that is for sure!
Apple won't let you replace your battery (even if you pay for it) unless it is under 80% health either. I've tried (as have others). :p
 

Mikey86uk

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2010
652
153
England
The only reason we got AppleCare+ was to use it for battery replacement, but it seems that wasn't the smartest decision seeing how we are forced to wait till the iPhone is really crippled by the battery before being eligible. I would rather pay out of pocket replacement fee now and move on instead of possibly waiting another year :( This is the first and last AC+ for iPhone that we will be buying - that is for sure!

Frustrating I know, but I'm a big fan of Apple Care so I won't knock it.

Also, I have asked if I could pay to replace mine and they refused. I will have to wait 6 months for the iPhone 15.
 

x-man

macrumors member
Aug 29, 2008
32
10
London
Mine is at 79% and also showing "Service".
I got it in October 2020, so is 31 months old now...
Happy with the phone otherwise so will get the battery replaced (I have an apple store locally)
 
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Kerry78

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2016
278
101
Sold mine after 13 months got the (14 Pro) the 12 Pro was at 94% battery so it was doing well!
 

kanga1622

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2016
181
117
We have two regular 12s in the house that we received on launch day. One battery health is 78% and the other is 82%. Both phones used by kids for the last 1.5-2 years that tend to charge once battery is less than 10%. Only significant difference is the one with lower battery health uses a wireless charger every night for a couple hours and the other has a non-compatible case so always has to use lightning cable.

Have to decide whether we should pass our 13s down to the kids while the adults upgrade to 15s this fall or just do a battery replacement.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,546
1,993
As the battery wears it should level off and wear out slower and slower. The initial drop is the fastest usually (unless there is a problem with the battery).

That and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Apple wasn't doing something to stabilize it (often why coconutBattery shows lower %s than Apple does - despite data being pulled from Apple's own stats).
Interestingly, everyone reports on iPads that Apple’s numbers are consistently 8-10% above Coconut, whereas on iPhones there are some cases in which Coconut’s numbers are higher, and a lot of them seem accurate. As far as my case goes, my iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 shows 93.8% in Coconut and Apple’s battery health shows 93%.

My 9.7-inch iPad Pro, per Apple, has 93% health. I find that difficult to believe. Nearly 7 years and 700 cycles in and it has 93%? I find that too high. My iPhone’s numbers are a little more realistic (I’m not a heavy user).
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
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Interestingly, everyone reports on iPads that Apple’s numbers are consistently 8-10% above Coconut, whereas on iPhones there are some cases in which Coconut’s numbers are higher, and a lot of them seem accurate. As far as my case goes, my iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 shows 93.8% in Coconut and Apple’s battery health shows 93%.

My 9.7-inch iPad Pro, per Apple, has 93% health. I find that difficult to believe. Nearly 7 years and 700 cycles in and it has 93%? I find that too high. My iPhone’s numbers are a little more realistic (I’m not a heavy user).
The bigger the battery the longer it lasts. Like you said, some of my iPad batteries have come WAY over provisioned from the factory - not just a wee bit but way over. With light usage and no abuse, I could see how the battery could stay in the 90s despite the cycles.

iPhones are rated what, 500 cycles for 80%?
iPads are rated, if I remember right, 1000 cycles for 80%. Same for MacBooks.

I believe that's mostly due to size.

Also, to support your statement, batteries are a chemistry that isn't exact so the % reader is an estimate and I would assume there is some code in there to stabilize it as the device gets older? I've seen an iPhone 4s with over a thousand cycles and 80%+. See my post here: --> #19

Wear definitely slows down big time as the device ages. But also, I've noticed older devices seem to stabilize off for a lot longer (maybe because of less harsh battery draw vs devices today?). <shrug>
 

Sorinut

macrumors 68000
Feb 26, 2015
1,670
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Apple won't let you replace your battery (even if you pay for it) unless it is under 80% health either. I've tried (as have others). :p

I've had batteries replaced twice above 80%, both times at an Apple retail store. I was handing down the phone and explained that I wanted to give it away with a fresh battery.
 

BigMcGuire

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Jan 10, 2012
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I've had batteries replaced twice above 80%, both times at an Apple retail store. I was handing down the phone and explained that I wanted to give it away with a fresh battery.
Ohhh nice. You had some good Apple Geniuses then. I have not had such luck. :D

Interesting - explanation of giving it away. Will remember that. Nice.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,546
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The bigger the battery the longer it lasts. Like you said, some of my iPad batteries have come WAY over provisioned from the factory - not just a wee bit but way over. With light usage and no abuse, I could see how the battery could stay in the 90s despite the cycles.

iPhones are rated what, 500 cycles for 80%?
iPads are rated, if I remember right, 1000 cycles for 80%. Same for MacBooks.

I believe that's mostly due to size.
Yeah, definitely, size is the #1 factor to support the fact that people have far higher tolerance when it comes to iPad batteries. You see people happy with battery life with 7-8-year-old iPads that have been updated. Couple to that what you said in your final paragraph about power requirements being lighter back then, and you obtain amazing results even after extremely heavy usage.
Also, to support your statement, batteries are a chemistry that isn't exact so the % reader is an estimate and I would assume there is some code in there to stabilize it as the device gets older? I've seen an iPhone 4s with over a thousand cycles and 80%+. See my post here: --> #19

Wear definitely slows down big time as the device ages. But also, I've noticed older devices seem to stabilize off for a lot longer (maybe because of less harsh battery draw vs devices today?). <shrug>
I’ve never seen any logic to degradation except one:

Heavier users degrade their battery faster in terms of time, but slower in terms of cycles, which would provide support for the oft-repeated statement of “time also degrades batteries by itself”.

I’m not a heavy user. I don’t have a high cycle count, even though I use devices for a very long time. The relationship between cycles and health is extremely unpredictable.

My 9.7-inch iPad Pro had 85% with 450 cycles on iOS 9, battery life was perfect. Today, it has 700 cycles with the same health, three years later. It was forced to iOS 12, and battery life plummeted by 20-23% right after updating, and it never dropped again.

My iPhone Xʀ has around 250 cycles on 93% health, and battery life is perfect on iOS 12.

You say “well, but 250 cycles is great on 93%”, and I’d say it isn’t. Heavier users have far better ratios: I’ve seen an iPhone 8 with 1700 cycles on 80% health, an iPhone 11 with 87% health and 573 cycles, etc.

However, maybe what you said becomes true: maybe it stabilizes and it stops.

To add a data point: my iPhone Xʀ has been at 93% for over a year, both in iOS settings and Coconut.

I don’t care about health though, I’ve found that if you keep the device on its original iOS version battery life never drops.

I would love to see heavy users keep the iOS version intact.

You see people with, say, the iPhone 11 and 75-80% health and the device is only 3.5 years old, but they typically have at least 800-900 cycles. They complain about battery life, but I’d argue it’s due to iOS 16. I’d love to see those users buy one iPhone and leave it on its original iOS version for three to four years, I’m confident that battery life would be fine. Why? Because of what you said: reduced power requirements of the older iOS versions. Unfortunately, nobody does that.

It’s the reason why older, 32-bit devices - especially iPads - report good battery life even 10 years in, with no battery replacements.
 
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BigMcGuire

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Yeah, definitely, size is the #1 factor to support the fact that people have far higher tolerance when it comes to iPad batteries. You see people happy with battery life with 7-8-year-old iPads that have been updated. Couple to that what you said in your final paragraph about power requirements being lighter back then, and you obtain amazing results even after extremely heavy usage.

I’ve never seen any logic to degradation except one:

Heavier users degrade their battery faster in terms of time, but slower in terms of cycles, which would provide support for the oft-repeated statement of “time also degrades batteries by itself”.

I’m not a heavy user. I don’t have a high cycle count, even though I use devices for a very long time. The relationship between cycles and health is extremely unpredictable.

My 9.7-inch iPad Pro had 85% with 450 cycles on iOS 9, battery life was perfect. Today, it has 700 cycles with the same health, three years later. It was forced to iOS 12, and battery life plummeted by 20-23% right after updating, and it never dropped again.

My iPhone Xʀ has around 250 cycles on 93% health, and battery life is perfect on iOS 12.

You say “well, but 250 cycles is great on 93%”, and I’d say it isn’t. Heavier users have far better ratios: I’ve seen an iPhone 8 with 1700 cycles on 80% health, an iPhone 11 with 87% health and 573 cycles, etc.

However, maybe what you said becomes true: maybe it stabilizes and it stops.

To add a data point: my iPhone Xʀ has been at 93% for over a year, both in iOS settings and Coconut.

I don’t care about health though, I’ve found that if you keep the device on its original iOS version battery life never drops.

I would love to see heavy users keep the iOS version intact.

You see people with, say, the iPhone 11 and 75-80% health and the device is only 3.5 years old, but they typically have at least 800-900 cycles. They complain about battery life, but I’d argue it’s due to iOS 16. I’d love to see those users buy one iPhone and leave it on its original iOS version for three to four years, I’m confident that battery life would be fine. Why? Because of what you said: reduced power requirements of the older iOS versions. Unfortunately, nobody does that.

It’s the reason why older, 32-bit devices - especially iPads - report good battery life even 10 years in, with no battery replacements.
Agreed. I would pay a lot of $ to have a chat with an Apple Battery Engineer and ask these questions (and get answers). lol. Even if I had to sign an NDA. lol.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
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Agreed. I would pay a lot of $ to have a chat with an Apple Battery Engineer and ask these questions (and get answers). lol. Even if I had to sign an NDA. lol.
Yeah, I’d love Apple to reply honestly.

I’m surprised at their recommendations. I contacted Apple Support to find out whether their reported health on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro also matched everyone else’s results, those of it being 8-10% higher than Coconut. I stated battery life was fine and that I just wanted to know. After they replied, they said “I notice you are running an older version of iOS. Updating iOS is always beneficial for battery life so you may want to look into that”.

Lying by omission in this case is fine, whatever, Apple loves it when people update, so they aren’t going to tell you that they are harmful, but don’t force your employees to lie to me directly. The person behind the screen is told to say that, it’s obviously not their fault.

I’d ask the hypothetical engineer “do you really believe that they help?”
 
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BigMcGuire

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Yeah, I’d love Apple to reply honestly.

I’m surprised at their recommendations. I contacted Apple Support to find out whether their reported health on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro also matched everyone else’s results, those of it being 8-10% higher than Coconut. I stated battery life was fine and that I just wanted to know. After they replied, they said “I notice you are running an older version of iOS. Updating iOS is always beneficial for battery life so you may want to look into that”.

Lying by omission in this case is fine, whatever, Apple loves it when people update, so they aren’t going to tell you that they are harmful, but don’t force your employees to lie to me directly. The person behind the screen is told to say that, it’s obviously not their fault.

I’d ask the hypothetical engineer “do you really believe that they help?”
My assumption is that any Apple employee saying anything other than to upgrade would be let go - just on the basis of security alone not to mention app compatibility, feature parity with other Apple devices, etc.

There are advantages to updating. I've never not upgraded but I am aware of your opinion on keeping the same OS that the device came out with. While I'm glad this works for you I can't imagine this would work for most others. But like we both know - older OS systems have much less draining features and can help an older device last longer from the perspective of battery wear.
If you want your device to last a very long time the best, what you're doing is the best way to do that. (Assuming older OSs work for you).

I see these as tools to make my life better - and I am in a position to upgrade whenever I want (very privileged I know). I often upgrade or give away regularly enough so I rarely have devices go past 200 cycles. Security is also a must for me so I update the instant I can (usually within a few hours of an OS update).
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
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My assumption is that any Apple employee saying anything other than to upgrade would be let go - just on the basis of security alone not to mention app compatibility, feature parity with other Apple devices, etc.

Yeah, it’s probably an Apple policy. Like I said, I’d never blame the employee behind the screen, in fact I was part of a series of recommendations, so I didn’t mention the topic and just thanked them for their help. I just wanted to know my iPad’s reported health and they both helped and were very kind in doing so.
There are advantages to updating. I've never not upgraded but I am aware of your opinion on keeping the same OS that the device came out with. While I'm glad this works for you I can't imagine this would work for most others. But like we both know - older OS systems have much less draining features and can help an older device last longer from the perspective of battery wear.

I see these as tools to make my life better - and I am in a position to upgrade whenever I want (very privileged I know). I often upgrade or give away regularly enough so I rarely have devices go past 200 cycles. Security is also a must for me so I update the instant I can (usually within a few hours of an OS update).
Yeah, absolutely, the drawbacks of staying behind are absolutely unbearable for many (even for me if I’m outdated enough), but knowing that my device will never be worse is amazing.

People who upgrade frequently - like you - would be unnecessarily worrying, this is something I’ve mentioned before. You (you being those who upgrade frequently, not you specifically, though it includes you base on what you said) just don’t use devices enough in the limited timeframe in which you keep it so as to make battery lifespan relevant, or iOS updates relevant. One of two major updates aren’t awful enough for them to really matter.

Barring very specific cases, the vast majority of this thread reports their battery health in the 90s. Even if you update iOS, you won’t see an impact right now, it’s too new. Battery life seems fine too, the only iPhone 12 series users who complain are those with the 12 Mini, which wasn’t even good back on iOS 14.

iPhone 11 users do report degraded batteries today, yet funnily enough, I’ve seen some on iOS 15 who are happy with their battery life even with 70% health, so it seems like iOS 16 is kind of a repetition of iOS 11: it affected everyone.
 
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Sorinut

macrumors 68000
Feb 26, 2015
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Ohhh nice. You had some good Apple Geniuses then. I have not had such luck. :D

Interesting - explanation of giving it away. Will remember that. Nice.

They did initially decline after they tested the battery capacity, so I guess they have leeway. 😊
 
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Nhwhazup

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2010
3,454
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New Hampshire
I've had batteries replaced twice above 80%, both times at an Apple retail store. I was handing down the phone and explained that I wanted to give it away with a fresh battery.
I’ve never had a problem getting a battery replaced even at over 80% health. Last time they scratched the heck out of my phone in the process and I ended up with a new 12 Pro for the price of a new battery.
 

Simon89

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2015
271
157
Yorkshire, UK
Mine's currently showing 86% on a 12PM which I've had since release. It'll still last a day but it's noticeable that it isn't quite a fresh as it once was.
 

Hicksmat1976

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2016
380
362
Manchester, England
Launch day iPhone 12 Pro
Screenshot 2023-06-06 at 11.59.08.png


aside from the "charging on hold" issue https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...iphone-returns-to-normal-temperature.2365565/ this phone has been great. interestingly the phone reports its battery health at 89% but its been like that for over a year, and coconut is reporting much higher as you can see.
 
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Simon89

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2015
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
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I know this will be asked many times, what app is that?
https://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/ - for Mac OS.

Reads Apple's own system data on your iPhone for battery stats. Works with most Apple devices (iPads, MacBooks, iPhones) - but only runs on Mac OS.

Been using this for many many years, great app. I highly recommend it. I have a history of all my devices (and my family's devices) battery stats going back to my 6+. :p
 
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