I separated my gaming needs from compute needs long time ago with PS3. I have an Xbox one now. I am not much of a gamer, I got an Xbox free couple years back, I play every now and then.
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Is gaming officially dead on Macs?
- Thread starter Yamcha
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You mean X-Plane 12. That one is Apple Silicon native.
Yes, but things are not as great as they seem.... to be able to run X-Plane with 3rd party scenery and aircraft (which you really do..) you will run into add-ons which are not Apple Silicon native, and you have a choice to make:
Run X-Plane native and enjoy full performance and miss out a couple add-ons you would really want to be able to use, or run it in Rosetta mode, enjoy all add-ons and sacrifice performance.
Apple Silicon has been with us for 2,5 years now.
X-Plane 12 has been in preview since September 2022 and the final product since December 2022, and still many 3rd party great stuff cannot be used natively on Apple Silicon. This is annoying, but it also shows that many developers don't really bother with Apple Silicon. I assume we'll be okay before Christmas...
To be fair, Capcom did finally release Resident Evil Village for MacOS about a year and a half after other platforms but it might be one and done since there's no MacOS port of subsequent Resident Evil 4 (2023) release. Glimpse of REV uptake based on review count may explain why.
Steam REV total number of reviews 62,833
Mac App Store REV total number of reviews 236 so about a third of 1%
You can always list titles on the Mac and for each one probably a few hundred that didn't make it to the Mac. In other words, Mac gaming is the same as it was since the 80s and every decade since then. And even the late games are part of if. I played Star Trek 25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites on DOS back in the early 90s and about one or two years later on the Mac. Things are as they always were, us old Mac users are used to it.
That doesn't really solve the problem. Apple needs to help developers directly, as they did in the non-gaming field then they switched to Intel.
Oh there is a port. It's just not released. And no, they won't need a new deal to release it.
Blizzard (in the ABK era) is a poor analogy for the gaming market as a whole. The Activision side has been intentionally overlooking the Mac side of the PC market even before the Blizzard acquisition. What's worse is that despite Blizzard's supposed autonomy within ABK, the reality is it's people on the Activision side (such as Bobby Kotick) who have blocked Blizzard from developing new titles for the Mac, despite their extensive experience with cross-platform development. A lot of that mindset is related to the CoD franchise and the Activision side forcing its addition to the Battle.net launcher.
Oops you are right my bad. I have X-Plane 11 or rather had the later updates didn't run very well on my iMac 2015 at all.
FWIW, X-Plane 11 (yes, not Apple Silicon native) flies (pun intended) on my Mac Studio Max!Oops you are right my bad. I have X-Plane 11 or rather had the later updates didn't run very well on my iMac 2015 at all.
I even prefer X-Plane 11 over 12 ATM as FSAA, all plugins, all scenery, all planes.... all work perfectly, and as X-Plane 11 has not the great eye-candy X-plane 12 has (especially the clouds..) it's not that extremely demanding. And it still looks great, (just not as great as X-Plane 12...)
IF you say so, I could careless what internal on goings are in a company, more interested in the end product and if it's available for my needs.
Exactly it is pretty much the same, even with the new hardware and a graphics layer, Metal. So where is the problem here is it Apple, is it studios or users, or all of that. I know this topic has been beaten to death around here with no clear answer.
Don't get me wrong it's nice to have gaming on the Mac and see the potiental of more titles. But for choice in my eyes it's not even close to what is available elsewhere. There is always a light at the end of the Apple gaming tunnel but we never really get there.
Mac gaming officially died on February 24th, 2000. That's the day that MacRumors launched. Ever since then, we've been helpfully reminded that Macs aren't for gaming, on a regular basis, as is tradition.
Instead of discussing games that are currently in development for the Mac, those that are soon to be released, or have recently been released, the self-proclaimed realists on this forum inform us that we should just get PCs or consoles and give up on the Mac for games. This is news to Mac gamers, such as myself, who have enjoyed playing Mac games for years now.
I would say that 80% of the computer games that I play are isometric turn-based RPGs, which are plentiful on the Mac. In fact, essentially all of these titles have a Mac native version, having parity with Windows PCs. Off the top of my head, there's Baldur's Gate 3, Solasta, Pathfinder, ATOM RPG, Black Geyser, Disco Elysium, the Dungeon of Naheulbeuk, and Wasteland 3, all of which have been released within the past couple of years, some of which have expansions currently in development. Some of these are Apple Silicon native, others work fine using Rosetta 2. Similarly, if you enjoy strategy games, there are also a wide selection for the Mac.
After mentioning this, I'm told "just because it's okay for you, doesn't mean that it is for everyone". It's a shame watching the straw man genocide happening right before my eyes.
Apple Silicon Macs make for perfectly serviceable gaming machines. Everyone knows that they will never have the same selection that are available on PC, but saying that Mac gaming is dead is pure hyperbole.
There seems to be three different types of posters in this discussion:
1. Users who are primarily concerned about gaming, the Mac is secondary to that consideration, therefore eliminated by default. For them, a gaming PC or console is the best solution.
2. Mac users who also want to use them for gaming. These are people who own a Mac, want to use it for gaming purposes, and realize that compromises will have to be made.
3. Windows PC partisans who specifically come here to proselytize about how great the PC is, that us Mac heathens should change our ways, only post benchmarks that demonstrate PC's undisputed superiority, and constantly move goalposts in bad faith arguments. These people are easy to spot, but sometimes fool new posters, because they assume that everyone here is arguing in good faith, which is not the case.
I'm only concerned with people in category number 2. That's why I highlight upcoming game releases and discuss solutions to run Windows-only titles.
Some of those options are currently on the market, others are being worked on. Everyone knows that Macs will never have the same selection as PCs. Hence, Mac gamers are going to have to make compromises. Fortunately, there are multiple teams working on different solutions. CodeWeavers is working on DirectX 12 support for CrossOver. Parallels continues to improve running Arm Windows through virtualization. As I highlighted in a previous post, the Asahi Linux team is working on Proton support for Apple Silicon. The Asahi team in particular has made tremendous progress.
I've always been of the opinion that I don't need access to all computer games, just enough to be satisfied while gaming on my Mac. I have no interest in getting a console. I don't want to go through the duplication of a building a gaming PC and absolutely hate using Windows.
CodeWeavers, Parallels, Asahi Linux, and Apple itself are all working on bringing game support to the Mac, in one form or another. If Mac gaming was dead, then there would be no profit in these ventures. If you want to game primarily on the Mac, then there will always be compromises, and many of us are okay with that. That's not going to be enough for the gaming first crowd, which is fine, there are plenty options for those who want a Windows PC. That will never be enough for the PC partisans, but there's no point in engaging with people who are fighting a religious war.
So basically, your solution is compromise, compromise, compromise, at every turn, just so you can be sure to use your Mac and only your Mac. That's not gaming, that's wedging yourself into a prison of your own making.
I'm not sure who is fighting a "religious war," but I don't think it's who you think it is.
I'm not sure who is fighting a "religious war," but I don't think it's who you think it is.
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There really is no point in saying this because a person like yourself is tone deaf. But here we go.
This works for you, great. You do realize there are people out there, lets call them gamers, who just want to play the games currently available, you know stuff like Cyberpunk, Elden Ring, Red Dead etc. and also say want to keep playing the games they currently have in their catalogue. Does this sound possible on the Mac, if not what do they do, hope an prayers that eventually some new tech lands on the Mac that solves all of this, when decades of history has proven otherwise? That's a hard sell if you ask me.
This isn't about hardware, Mac's have had capable hardware for years, well before Apple silicon.
IF you are ok with what games are available on the Mac and content to play just those games, then the Mac is perfect for you. Otherwise if you want to play all those games and current and past titles the Mac isn't the right platform.
So if there were a bare-metal Windows (which would therefore be ARM) on Apple Silicon, what games would you run on it, and how?
People keep whining about "bootcamp on Apple Silicon". Do any of them know what that means?
Would you be singing the same tune if most isometric turn-based RPGs weren't on Mac?
It's great that your main genre is pretty well represented but if somebody else enjoys FPSs or JRPGs or racing games they're not going to have the same experience. It's not hard to see why people would be disappointed with Mac gaming when 80% of the titles they want to play are absent.
I'd rather play Greebles than a lot of 'AAA' titles to be fair...
I'm looking at the current market, weighing the available options for Mac gamers, and discussing it on this forum. I also don't feel like I'm in a prison and don't think that compromise is a dirty word. The options that I have mentioned are clearly not for you, which is perfectly fine.
That wasn't a generalization. The success of Apple Silicon has upset a small but vocal cohort of PC partisans. If you've been around these parts long enough, you'd know exactly whom I speak of.
I'm listening to your argument, so I don't see that as being tone deaf.
Exactly, which I already addressed, when I mentioned category one:
"1. Users who are primarily concerned about gaming, the Mac is secondary to that consideration, therefore eliminated by default. For them, a gaming PC or console is the best solution."
I don't have control over what games are released on the Mac, only what is currently available. What I can do is support Mac developers by purchasing games that I enjoy, for my preferred platform, macOS. For folks who are dissatisfied with the available options, there are plenty of Windows PCs available. Or simply build a custom gaming PC, which amount to adult Legos, so it's not hard.
I think we are arguing two different things. I've always said that gaming on the Mac could be better. I stated that twice in the post that you are responding to. I never said that gaming on the Mac is perfect, which is as equally as silly as saying that Mac gaming is dead.
Which was one of my main points. There are people who are better off with a dedicated gaming PC or console. I'm not addressing those folks. I'm concerned with Mac users who want to maximize their ability to game on their Macs, not the gaming first crowd. That's why I discuss options like CrossOver, Parallels, Asahi Linux, and Apple's endeavors with Metal 3. Those are practical solutions for Mac gamers, not platitudes about the alleged death of Mac gaming; such dead-end circular arguments do none of us any good.
We tech nerds tend to think in binary, I've been guilty of it myself, but this isn't one of those situations. Choice of platform is a highly personal decision, based upon many factors. For some folks, such as myself and numerous other users on this forum, Macs are fine gaming machines. In my opinion, the situation has improved in recent years, as the Mac has gained market share, not to mention improvements afforded by Apple Silicon, such as dropping Intel's integrated graphics.
I was emphasizing that style of RPG, because they are plentiful on the Mac, near parity with PCs, it completely undermines the "Mac gaming is dead" narrative. While I spend more time with RPGs than other genres, I actually enjoy many types of games. Even if I were to stop playing RPGs entirely, I wouldn't have issue finding titles that interest me, I'm rather flexible in my gaming interests, and willing to investigate alternative methods to play Windows-only titles, as I mentioned above.
I completely understand. For some users, a console or gaming PC is a better solution, which is perfectly fine. For those of us who want to specifically game on the Mac, I think considering our options is more fruitful than grousing about it on MacRumors, but to each their own.
On MacRumors, "AAA" game often = game not available on the Mac. It's an arbitrary term that means whatever the individual decides it should mean. If we're talking about big budget titles with even bigger marketing budgets, many of those have been released in a nearly unplayable state, even on a 4090. "AAA" title doesn't always mean that you're going to have a good experience.
How do you know that they want to play these 80% of titles?
Don’t popular games like the Metro trilogy and the Borderlands series count as FPS titles on the Mac?
Don’t popular racing games like the Grid series count as racing games on the Mac?
I don’t know much about JRPGs, but aren’t Breath of the Wild and The Pathless both on the Mac?
In my view, you’re painting with too broad a brush here.
Breath of the Wild is a Switch exclusive (being a Nintendo first-party title and all), so it's not even on PC. But there are a lot of RPGs and JRPGs available outside of the two you listed.
Here is a partial list of games in my game libraries that can also run on my M2 MBP:
RPG/JRPG: Baldur's Gate 1-3, Bard's Tale 1-4, World of Warcraft, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, Runescape, Adventure Quest 3D,
Action/FPS: Tomb Raider series (multiple titles), Bioshock 1/2, Borderlands 2, CS:GO, Sleeping Dogs: Definitive Edition, Brütal Legend, METRO: Exodus, Diablo 1-3, Batman: Arkham City GOTY, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2, Syberia 3, System Shock 2, Turok 2, The Witcher 1 & 2
Arcade/Casual: Jackbox Games, My Time at Portia
Other: Life is Strange 1&2, Bastion, Binding of Isaac, LEGO Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Tropico 6, Sims series, Cities: Skylines, Starcraft 1 &2, Hearthstone, Civilization V & VI, Warcraft III Remastered
I find it odd that you seemingly know what titles people want to play, because I guarantee you more than half of the titles I listed (which is less than 5% of all the games I can play on my Mac across all sources) never even made so much as a blip in your mind when you made that comment.
I never said there was no games in those genres on Mac but that a lot of titles in those genres are missing on Mac in comparison to Windows/Playstation/Xbox/Switch. You also didn't list a single JRPG BTW...
There is over 3000 FPSs on Steam and only 366 of those are available for Mac and that includes titles never updated with 64 bit support like Call of Duty 4 and thus not playable on any new Mac. There is over 4000 racing games on Steam and only 662 playable on Mac (again with some 32 bit titles still in there). Similarly Steam lists 2400 JRPGs and only 305 available for Mac. And yes, there is a lot of big missing games. The last Need for Speed on Mac was Carbon back in 2006, there's no Overwatch, no Final Fantasys besides 14, no Dragon Quests, no Forza, no Apex Legends etc. It's really not a stretch IMO that somebody into those genres MIGHT want to play some of the biggest names in them.
HAHAHA
Apple Silicon Macs now natively support Unreal Engine 5
Epic has just released a new update to Unreal Engine, version 5.2, that works natively on Apple Silicon.
www.engadget.com
HAHAHA
Apple Silicon Macs now natively support Unreal Engine 5
Epic has just released a new update to Unreal Engine, version 5.2, that works natively on Apple Silicon.
I thought it was a new update but it seems to be the same they announced back in February.
Shh! I keep hearing rumours that Apple will switch from 68k to PPC, they seem to talk to IBM... oh wait.HAHAHA
Apple Silicon Macs now natively support Unreal Engine 5
Epic has just released a new update to Unreal Engine, version 5.2, that works natively on Apple Silicon.
The AS native version has been available for a while, you just had to build it yourself instead of downloading if from the launcher. I wrote about this a few months ago.
Unfortunately UE is still broken on macOS (or let's say some features won't work). Given the situation between Epic and Apple it's understandable that they don't have a high priority on it, despite iOS mobile developer waiting for it. With Unity, I can only scratch my head why they don't fix a lot of stuff for macOS. Apple is actively marketing it and it sure works better than UE on macOS right now.
I listed some of the games I own that are playable on a Mac, my point is that Mac gaming is not the empty desert you attempted to portray it as...