MP 7,1 Is it crazy to buy an Intel Mac Pro (2019) in 2022/2023?

[mattspace]

I see so when does iPad get the Mx Pro, Max chips?

Never, and Apple'e inhouse apps will never require pro or max chips for their full range of function.

That's a big part of the no-third-party GPUs on Apple Silicon story - go look at Rhino's system requirements, big emphasis on AMD GPUs recommended.

I guess they make Macs for funsies.

the mac is a peripheral dongle to develop for i(Pad)OS, and it can run those i(Pad)OS apps.

 

[prefuse07]

I guess they make Macs for funsies.

It certainly is beginning to look more and more like this is their ethos -- especially with the move to in-house silicon using ARM architecture, and closing everyone off (we'll see if they break off their relationship with AMD) -- moving all of their inventory to more of an iDevice style.

Plus, with Tim Cook's "the iPad is all consumers really need" bull**** statement, and as we are seeing macOS morph more and more into iOS, I have a feeling that his long-term plan is to kill off mac computers altogether! (this makes me very very sad to type).

 

[Mac3Duser]

the problem is that if ASI has less power consumption and performs better than xeons, and that ASI GPUs are faster on the applications used by people who buy APPLE, i.e. mainly for photo and video and not for 3D, so why would the mac pro ASI be less good?
and now imagine a normal start price a bit more than the mac studio m1ultra

 

[Matty_TypeR]

The problem is by its very name a Mac pro it should be able to handle photo, video, and 3D it should also be upgradable with newer GPU's when available or any studio card interface required. Versatility has been the back bone of the Mac Pro and to move it into a closed ecosphere is very limiting for many.

If Steve job's was still around i don't think we would see this path with Apple, maybe a switch to all AMD would have been a better move.

 

[Mac3Duser]

The problem is by its very name a Mac pro it should be able to handle photo, video, and 3D it should also be upgradable with newer GPU's when available or any studio card interface required. Versatility has been the back bone of the Mac Pro and to move it into a closed ecosphere is very limiting for many.

If Steve job's was still around i don't think we would see this path with Apple, maybe a switch to all AMD would have been a better move.

Yes.
Yes, I agree with that.
But since we have no power over what Apple does and the only thing that really makes us use a mac is mac os, it's up to us.
If it were me, I would obviously like a mac pro with an AMD ryzen 7950X and be able to put several graphics cards, a big nvidia and an amd, for example, plus acquisition or storage cards.
and be able to download my drivers, available on brand sites, without asking Apple for permission.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Yes it's crazy at the prices they are asking. How long is Apple realistically going to support it? I'd be surprised if it gets whatever macOS 5 years from now and we will see how long they keep bothering to write new GPU drivers for the thing.

For the price of the low-end model you can get both a Mac Studio and a PC that will be better at gaming than the Mac Pro (assuming that's why you need Windows).

There's plenty of non-ugly PC cases these days. It's not 2001 anymore. I rather like the look of my NZXT H510. It's pretty minimalist looking. I've also heard there is some Chinese company out there making clone Mac Pro cases. You could also go down the route of modding an old PowerMac or Mac Pro chassis into a PC case too if that's your thing.

 

[mattspace]

the problem is that if ASI has less power consumption and performs better than xeons,

Power consumption is largely irrelevant for a desktop system.

It's kindof hilarious that there's this double standard about the Mac Pro where the excessive pricing is something that a business wouldn't care about because they "use it to make money", but an imagined AS lower power consumption, which will be at best a rounding error on an annual bill for any business, is some huge positive selling point.

and that ASI GPUs are faster on the applications used by people who buy APPLE, i.e. mainly for photo and video and not for 3D, so why would the mac pro ASI be less good?

They won't be, that's the point. Metal on AMD, the thing that decodes your RAW images in your Photo DAM, is radically faster on AMD, and the only way Apple Silicon is going to change that, is by taking away AMD as an option.

and now imagine a normal start price a bit more than the mac studio m1ultra

The Mac Pro is built to the price Apple wants to charge, not priced to the input cost Apple incurs. The entry model ASMP will probably start above the highest model Mac Studio.

 

[orionquest]

The prior versions were not too good. They never had these REMEDIAL features. And 10 years of no remedial features. We're not talking about kitchen sink features like Word. Table of Authorities?!?!?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME. Again, this is high school level stuff.

Updated: Furthermore, they are not 'demo' applications: they LITERALLY use Keynote for their keynotes--mission critical there.

What kills me is that I say this stuff, and instead of people noticing, hey, it's true, there is no excuse for this from the RICHEST COMPANY ON EARTH, the Stockholm beaten down Mac users get in a line to defend this garbage. This site is littered with idiots 'teaching us all and justifying' how the trashcan Mac was good for us, and even AFTER apple LITERALLY did an apology tour, you still get these numnuts in here defending this abject failure garbage by apple.

If you keep defending their idiocy, they will never feel the heat to change. And when they actually do feel the heat to change, not remarkably, they do! Enough people yelled and shamed them (very much deservedly so) about the trashcan Mac, and lo and behold, we got the 7,1.

Stop apologizing for these loser failure moves, and start taking them to task. It is in NO WAY ACCEPTABLE that in 2022, after a decade or more, that pages cannot do a simple table of authorities. There is no justification except horrid lack of vision, laziness, ineptitude, and throngs of apologists saying 'thats ok, actually that's great'.

Understand this Apple is a "Hardware" company.

The software is a nice to have marketing feature. That's it.

They are demo apps just to give you enough out the box, need something more professional a feature rich, use something from the MS or Adobe, they own those markets for a reason.

I am not defending Apple, just telling you like it is as your expectations are widly out of place to the reality. Apple didn't become wealthy because they created software. They sold you on the idea their software was great and it's a package deal.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Understand this Apple is a "Hardware" company.

The software is a nice to have marketing feature. That's it.

They are demo apps just to give you enough out the box, need something more professional a feature rich, use something from the MS or Adobe, they own those markets for a reason.

I am not defending Apple, just telling you like it is as your expectations are widly out of place to the reality. Apple didn't become wealthy because they created software. They sold you on the idea their software was great and it's a package deal.

We disagree. First Keynote.app is used by apple for actual keynotes, which are mission critical and not demo apps. So provably wrong.

Second, apple has always distinguished itself with its software, particularly its operating systems and emphasis therein. The old (para) phrase is if you want to make great software, make your own hardware.

The hardware being there for the software. Of course you’re right in they are not pure Microsoft. But things like logic and FCP are certainly more than demos as Hollywood movies/commercials/albums have been made with both. Music.app/iTunes used to be great and turned to crap. Photos is mission critical to many many people (but has gotten worse imo from iPhoto days, but still ok as a consumer app). iMovie/garage band are pretty good for what they are. Mail/contacts/calendar/Messages/Maps/FindMy are pretty decent for what they are. So good things can and do get done by apple when the 5 developers get around to focusing on a project there.

I think asking for a calculator app and weather app in less than 10years is reasonable and realistic, but defeatist rhetoric, rationalizing apples failures is exactly why apple feels little compunction to do better. It has a long line of “explainers” rationalizing why the failures are somehow acceptable or to be expected rather than outraged customers expecting and demanding better.

 

[prefuse07]

I think asking for a calculator app and weather app in less than 10years is reasonable and realistic, but defeatist rhetoric, rationalizing apples failures is exactly why apple feels little compunction to do better. It has a long line of “explainers” rationalizing why the failures are somehow acceptable or to be expected rather than outraged customers expecting and demanding better.

This is it right here. There are way too many apologists that, as you mentioned, rather than hold apple accountable, instead, they come to apple's defense. Case in point in this thread, and many others on this site.

So apple just continues, instead of fixing things, and the iSheep continue to baaa... 🐑

 

[exoticSpice]

When we complain. apple fixes stuff fast. Case in point. The 7,1 and the 2021 MBPs.

@ZombiePhysicist, it's funny how the Apple Watch has gotten the Calculator and weather app before the iPad.

This tells me that the iPad is not the future. The latest M chips appear in Macs. Not iPads. There are only few people that can oppose Tim Cook. We the consumers and the people at Apple who made the 7,1 and the 2021 MBP possible.

 

[Kimmo]

When we complain. apple fixes stuff fast. Case in point. The 7,1 and the 2021 MBPs.

@ZombiePhysicist, it's funny how the Apple Watch has gotten the Calculator and weather app before the iPad.

This tells me that the iPad is not the future. The latest M chips appear in Macs. Not iPads. There are only few people that can oppose Tim Cook. We the consumers and the people at Apple who made the 7,1 and the 2021 MBP possible.

Good point.

Tim Cook's email at the company is tcook@apple.com.

Will he see your email? Probably not, but someone in his office will, and if they get multiple emails on the same topic the chances of it being taken seriously will go up a lot. No magic, just How Big Companies Operate 101.

 

[Boil]

The latest M chips appear in Macs. Not iPads.

• 10.9" M1 iPad Air
• 11" M1 iPad Pro
• 12.9" M1 iPad Pro
• 11" M2 iPad Pro
• 12.9" M2 iPad Pro

 

[exoticSpice]

• 10.9" M1 iPad Air
• 11" M1 iPad Pro
• 12.9" M1 iPad Pro
• 11" M2 iPad Pro
• 12.9" M2 iPad Pro

I should have clarified. The Macs get them first. Ever since M1 this has been the case.

In every introduction of a new M chip. They are first introduced in a Mac, then they make their way to iPads with no fanfare.

Last I checked the M2 chip got a fanfare at WWDC for the Mac. The M2 iPad Pro got a press release. The same will happen for M3, the Mac will receive it first and months later the iPad will follow.


Here is a fun data point, ever since Apple Sillicon on Macs. The Macs never got a press release they all have been released at a event. Yes, even the boring 13," MBP gets featured at the a Apple event.

 

[Theophilos]

Greetings,

In my humble opinion, it is not a good idea to get the 2019 Mac Pro unless you find a significant deal, because much of its technology—from the Xeon processor to its PCI 3 bus—has been surpassed.

I have a 2019 Mac Pro that is very well equipped with the 16c Xeon, 384 GB, Radeon Vega II w/ 32 GB VRAM, and a bunch of Samsung SSDs complementing the Apple 2 TB SSD, but it is no longer a joy to use after I purchased a 16" MacBook Pro with the M1 Max and 32 GB RAM. The MacBook Pro feels so much more snappy under MacOS Ventura than my 2019 Mac Pro. The latter may still outperform the former in some processor intensive tasks, but overall, the MacBook Pro just seems faster. It is the future. I just hope Apple keeps some form of upgradability for its pro users.

Wishing you the best in your decision

 

[James_C]

I don't think it makes sense to buy three year old technology, unless your professional workflows demand it. I doubt that Intel Macs will get three more years of new versions of Mac OS, security updates and bug fixes certainly, but not 3 new versions of Mac OS. My guess is next year will be the last version of Mac OS that supports Intel. Apple will want to move away from Universal binary as soon as it can, to focus development of Mac OS on AS.

The current generation of MacBook Pro's with the Max Chip in just about every scenario outperform 2019 MacPro's, even those fitted with afterburner cards for video editing for much less money. Either wait for the AS MacPro or M2 Version of the MBP, and get a PC for your Windows needs. You will have two machines (For potentially a lower cost than a 2019 Mac Pro) that can be focused on delivering the best performance for each platform, rather than a "Jack of all trades, but a master of none" with limited Mac OS upgrade path.

 

[mattspace]

rather than a "Jack of all trades, but a master of none" with limited Mac OS upgrade path.

Within macOS, the 2019 is Literally the master of:

• Virtualisation workloads.
• Ram-Hungry workloads
• Graphical workloads
• Large Volumes of Data i/o workloads
• 3D workloads
• Multiple Display workloads

Whereas Apple Silicon is the mater of:

• Being a bit faster at a specific subset of video codecs.

 

[exoticSpice]

Within macOS, the 2019 is Literally the master of:

• Virtualisation workloads.
• Ram-Hungry workloads
• Graphical workloads
• Large Volumes of Data i/o workloads
• 3D workloads
• Multiple Display workloads

Whereas Apple Silicon is the mater of:

• Being a bit faster at a specific subset of video codecs.

I would wait and not comment till the 8,1 mac comes out. After all the transition is not complete.

 

[Mac3Duser]

I expect an announcement concerning mac pro 8.1 before the end of the year (or early 2023) for a start of sales in 2023.
I expect a mac pro in a case quite similar to the 7.1, with a roughly equivalent starting price.
And I also expect proprietary connectors to add apple silicon graphics computing power / or afterburner card equivalents
so I expect a lot of disappointments from pro-intel/amd customers and a lot of tests from enthusiastic youtubers
but maybe Apple will keep the AMD graphic cards support and everybody will be ok... ^^

 

[th0masp]

I expect a lot of disappointments from pro-intel/amd customers and a lot of tests from enthusiastic youtubers

Seems like the most likely outcome in any case

 

[mattspace]

I would wait and not comment till the 8,1 mac comes out. After all the transition is not complete.

right, but the question is as of now why would someone buy a 7,1, and as of now, the 7,1 is significantly more machine than any AS Mac.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I don't think it makes sense to buy three year old technology, unless your professional workflows demand it. I doubt that Intel Macs will get three more years of new versions of Mac OS, security updates and bug fixes certainly, but not 3 new versions of Mac OS. My guess is next year will be the last version of Mac OS that supports Intel. Apple will want to move away from Universal binary as soon as it can, to focus development of Mac OS on AS.

The current generation of MacBook Pro's with the Max Chip in just about every scenario outperform 2019 MacPro's, even those fitted with afterburner cards for video editing for much less money. Either wait for the AS MacPro or M2 Version of the MBP, and get a PC for your Windows needs. You will have two machines (For potentially a lower cost than a 2019 Mac Pro) that can be focused on delivering the best performance for each platform, rather than a "Jack of all trades, but a master of none" with limited Mac OS upgrade path.

I dont think you’re right. If they are still selling the 7,1 in 2023 and the last os update is done that year, there will be rhighteous howls, particularly from those that bought new in 2023. There will be one more version past 2023.

And that is total bunk about the m1max, which gets destroyed by a middling amd 6800xt in apple’s own metal scores and almost every meaningful graphics application (except a few disingenuously cherry picked apple codec benchmarks). I have a maxed out mbp and Mac Studio. Nice machines for what they are, but they are irrelevant for serious Mac Pro work. They cannot even output to an 8k hdmi display and as such useless for apple’s oft touted 8k workflows, where embarrassingly you cannot actually *see* the 8k output, because the only machine capable of doing it is the 7,1 Mac Pro.

 

[mattspace]

I expect an announcement concerning mac pro 8.1 before the end of the year (or early 2023) for a start of sales in 2023.
I expect a mac pro in a case quite similar to the 7.1, with a roughly equivalent starting price.
And I also expect proprietary connectors to add apple silicon graphics computing power / or afterburner card equivalents
so I expect a lot of disappointments from pro-intel/amd customers and a lot of tests from enthusiastic youtubers
but maybe Apple will keep the AMD graphic cards support and everybody will be ok... ^^

Wait till the wailing and gnashing of teeth when it turns out that if the processor isn't soldered to the motherboard, it'll be cryptographically locked to it, the same way 7,1 SSDs are, and there'll be no way to buy / swap a CPU unless Apple authorises it.

 

[orionquest]

When we complain. apple fixes stuff fast. Case in point. The 7,1 and the 2021 MBPs.

No when Apple loses sales to bad designs they fix stuff.

 

[AppleTO]

I would be cautious of how long macOS for x86 will continue to exist. The OpenCore Legacy Patcher won't do much good when the processor architecture is discontinued.