Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

SteveW928

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2010
1,834
1,380
Victoria, B.C. Canada
As it requires root access to the device its not capable of 'drive by' attacks but only targeted attacks. if you are a journalist / official etc I would keep a close eye on your kit.

Yeah, the targeted attacks is key here.

Yes, but I like the fact that iCloud, while synch not backup, provides an extra point of failure for my backup system - at least with respect to hardware failure. Online backup at a different provider (other than iCloud) might provide a more diverse backup system.

Yes, you want people involved in your backups that have some expertise in the matter, not just poorly implemented add-ons.

And, yes, there is a HUGE difference between sync and backup. Just remember a sync can quickly and efficiently delete that crucial document across all your devices if you (or the sync vendor) makes a mistake.

So explain to me how this gets installed on an iOS device. You can’t sideload anything without jailbreaking first, right? Apple’s App Store would have to miss the malware in its review process before it could made available to users, right? Sounds like the perpetrator would need physical access to the iOS device, right? Again, how does this make its way onto my iPhone 8?

I'm guessing maybe it gets incorporated in other apps, and then some social engineering to attract the target? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't necessarily trust the App Store review to catch it unless blatantly obvious.

What a bold statement, do you have knowledge of each and every country in the world, did you live in other countries for an extended period of time, if so you must be the almighty allknowing god.
Please enlighten us...

It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to have a basic understanding of human nature.

My experience, even professional tech people fail to back up their stuff more often than they care to admit.:oops: Y'all have heard the stories about some CGI movies were almost lost because someone wiped the network drives, only to be salvaged because an animator had a copy they were working on at home.

No doubt. Most people don't have adequate archival/backup.

(As an aside... it's interesting how incompetent the gov't seems to be at backup if you've ever filed a somewhat controversial FoIA request. I was involved in one such attempt where we documented it being on at least 7 different computers, yet not one of them, or backups, had the video in question any longer. A bit too convenient, I think.)

I have seriously considered purchasing a burner phone that isn't tied to anything for international travel then turning on call forwarding and leaving my iPhone at home. It may sound extreme but I really don't like the idea of having some nimrod demand I unlock my phone or having them take my phone / tablet out of my line of sight for a few minutes.

I wonder how much that really happens. I recently traveled internationally, and was wondering if someone might ask to see my phone or unlock it, etc. I'd probably just do it, but I kind of want to resist on principal.

Yanks go blue in the face about a Russians, not a peep out of them about Israelis...

That's because the whole Russia thing was just political theatre towards an end. No one would care much otherwise.

And, it's also quite hypocritical, as the USA regularly interferes in the elections of other countries, and with real and more direct impact. Or, that internal USA entities (like, say, Google) had more influence on many millions of votes.
 

laz232

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2016
733
1,384
At a café near you
As they are a company in a fairly western democracy, that will be regularly audited by both government and private regulators and accounting firms, the liklihood of what you're claiming is probably low.

lol wut. Examples of the ludicrousness and naivety of this statement: arms sales (billions) by the UK and USA to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Arms sales approved by congress to Saddam Hussein in the 1980s. Interesting article here on how the USA supplied arms to the South African apartheid regime in contravention of the UN embargo (https://www.jstor.org/stable/1166940) "Turkey also has a longstanding record of restricting freedom of speech and association, and a record of brutal repression against its Kurdish population. Turkey is also a major recipient of U.S. arms and training, receiving a total of $10.5 billion in U.S. arms from 1984, when its war against Kurdish rebels began, through 1998."
https://worldpolicy.org/report-the-...ions-world-policy-institute-research-project/

I could sit here all night on my little mobile phone and come up with examples... The fact of the matter is that these hacking technologies can and will be used by governments and potentially non-governmental groups in manners that are unethical and represent a danger to freedom of thought and expression And the idea that such nefarious use is limited to just the "bad guys" neglects hundreds of empirical counterexamples
 

RogerWilco

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2011
824
1,361
“Repressive regimes” lol — which ones aren’t repressive when it comes to snooping in devices and cloud servers?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveW928

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
“Repressive regimes” lol — which ones aren’t repressive when it comes to snooping in devices and cloud servers?
How often do you get arrested in the middle of the night and interrogated with violence for hours at a time and then thrown into a dark cell? How often are you and your family harassed by police forces?
 

RogerWilco

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2011
824
1,361
Israel is a major ally. The other three are not.
Our “ally” Israel routinely spies on the U.S. government. In the 1990s Israeli agents installed custom ICs in telephone network switches around Washington DC that essentially wire-tapped government phone conversations and routed them through the Israeli embassy.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
Our “ally” Israel routinely spies on the U.S. government. In the 1990s Israeli agents installed custom ICs in telephone network switches around Washington DC that essentially wire-tapped government phone conversations and routed them through the Israeli embassy.
We've done that to them too. We've spied on the Germans, French, the British, etc. All of our close allies. They've done the same to us. We tapped Merkel's phone. The BND tapped the White House's secure lines.
 

RogerWilco

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2011
824
1,361
How often do you get arrested in the middle of the night and interrogated with violence for hours at a time and then thrown into a dark cell? How often are you and your family harassed by police forces?
Were you not paying attention in 2011 and 2013? Under the NDAA the U.S. government can legally send federal marshals to your home, arrest you with no notice to any local authority, and detain you at a military facility indefinitely with no access to legal counsel. You would simply disappear. Hmmm, sounds fairly repressive to me.
 
Last edited:

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
We’re you not paying attention in 2011 and 2013? Under the NDAA the U.S. government can legally send federal marshals to your home, arrest you with no notice to any local authority, and detain you at a military facility indefinitely with no access to legal counsel. You would simply disappear. Hmmm, sounds fairly repressive to me.
For "associated forced," in other words terrorism and suspected terrorism. A US Citizen who fights for a terrorist group can be incarcerated BY THE MILITARY indefinitely for that, or one connected to terrorist groups. Otherwise that law and ones preceding that which already allowed a form of mass arrest would have landed many political foes of any administration jail without due process.

Obama Administration carried out a strike against a US citizen because said citizen was involved in heavy terrorist activities against the US and its armed forces.


Do I think that was justified? Damn right I do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fairuz

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
I don't backup anything to any cloud server period. Your backup server should only be your external drive at home. Next time someone asks you for your smartphone at customs/immigration in Israel just consider that they have every info from your smartphone in their hands. On the other hand Apple must have a mole or spy of some sort working for them sending info to Israel. Apple needs to tighten up their security measures for their employees. If Iran or China had this they would be considered a national security concern but since it is Israel they seem to let it go. Any other company would have been sanctioned national security risks. China supposedly collects info from your smartphone assuming it is a Huawei Smartphone and Israel just asks you to hand over your smartphone at customs/immigration for security check. It's actually not just that but tablets and notebooks as well.

What is obvious these days is that smartphone security is not as good as it should be.
[doublepost=1563597902][/doublepost]
Guessing Apple hasn't done end to end iCloud encryption, both for the fact that they need to rescue users (probably constantly), but probably also from pressure from the U.S. government (so they can have Apple unlock people's iCloud stuff with a warrant) - remember when the U.S. govt was putting all this pressure on Apple about encryption and then they just basically stopped - guessing a gentleman's agreement took place with Apple saying they wouldn't E2E iCloud if the U.S. Govt backs off.

Don't put up anything into iCloud you wouldn't want to be hauled out into a court of law for any reason. For privacy's sake, just back up locally with encryption (which iTunes still supports) and your good. If your worried about your messaging use Signal or maybe Wickr. JMHO
So basically a backdoor option in the US like in China.
[doublepost=1563598183][/doublepost]
How often do you get arrested in the middle of the night and interrogated with violence for hours at a time and then thrown into a dark cell? How often are you and your family harassed by police forces?

You have to ask the Palestinian people this question;) The above mentioned happens to them on a daily basis. These devices are frequently used on all their smartphones.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
This was not Iran or China that did this. Had it been them sanctions would have been on Trump’s desk to sign


China and Israel have always liked data theft. Their excuse is for their own national security interests
 
Last edited:

laz232

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2016
733
1,384
At a café near you
For "associated forced," in other words terrorism and suspected terrorism. A US Citizen who fights for a terrorist group can be incarcerated BY THE MILITARY indefinitely for that, or one connected to terrorist groups. Otherwise that law and ones preceding that which already allowed a form of mass arrest would have landed many political foes of any administration jail without due process.

Obama Administration carried out a strike against a US citizen because said citizen was involved in heavy terrorist activities against the US and its armed forces.

Do I think that was justified? Damn right I do.

I happen to think that the US constitution and its amendments are some of the finest legal and ethical documents written.

To argue that Guantanamo Bay, black sites, illegal renditions and extra-judicial targeted killing programs (with very high civilian casualty rates) is morally, or ethically or legally justifiable within the bounds of the constitution and with regard to the actual danger presented to the US citizenry - especially considering the protection afforded to the actual sources of terrorism funding (KSA, Pakistan etc.) - requires the kind of mental gymnastics that would make Chinese Olympic Gold medal recipient soil their leotards.

A just war should be fought with the support, consent and understanding of the citizens that are asked to kill - we see the scars left upon the young men that were compelled to fight in WWI, in Vietnam in Iraq, etc where the underlying truths were obscured by those that placed political expediency above all else.

The Obama and Trump era crackdowns on whistle-blowers that fulfill their moral duty to expose these constitutional and ethical breeches by the government (in absence of effective whistle-blower protections) show that the tools and methods described in the OP article will be abused by foreign regimes as well as "democratic Western governments" to further what history will record as gross injustices based on lies, information repression and intellectual dishonesty.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
To argue that Guantanamo Bay, black sites, illegal renditions and extra-judicial targeted killing programs (with very high civilian casualty rates) is morally, or ethically or legally justifiable within the bounds of the constitution and with regard to the actual danger presented to the US citizenry - especially considering the protection afforded to the actual sources of terrorism funding (KSA, Pakistan etc.) - requires the kind of mental gymnastics that would make Chinese Olympic Gold medal recipient soil their leotards.
The laws in Germany, particularly privacy laws, protect their citizens. Do those privacy laws affect me as a US citizen? No. In what way do the laws in the US meant for US citizens protect terror suspects? They don't.
[doublepost=1563610071][/doublepost]
A just war should be fought with the support, consent and understanding of the citizens that are asked to kill - we see the scars left upon the young men that were compelled to fight in WWI, in Vietnam in Iraq, etc where the underlying truths were obscured by those that placed political expediency above all else.
The current Iraqi and Afghan government agree with the war on terror and aid the US. The prior governments, of a deposed leader and a relatively lawless country, respectively, didn't meet your current ideals.
[doublepost=1563610253][/doublepost]
The Obama and Trump era crackdowns on whistle-blowers that fulfill their moral duty to expose these constitutional and ethical breeches by the government (in absence of effective whistle-blower protections) show that the tools and methods described in the OP article will be abused by foreign regimes as well as "democratic Western governments" to further what history will record as gross injustices based on lies, information repression and intellectual dishonesty.
You mean the illegal publication of classified materials?


People like Snowden are not whistle blowers. The media love to call him one, but he's not. He's a traitor. He's no better than Aldrich Ames. And the only thing he deserves is a bullet to the head.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fairuz

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
"The tool is said to work on many of the latest iPhones and Android smartphones, and can continue to harvest data even after the tool is removed from the original mobile device."

If it wasn't for that, i'd be ok with the tool, mainly for forensics or generally companies needing to get data from services.


Anyone who gets hold of this tool would be happy for a very long time.

"In response to the report, Apple told FT that its operating system was "the safest and most secure computing platform in the world."

Any company can claim this when put up to security/privacy firms... it doesn't mean anything. Like any company who would say the say the same, they do that to protect their backs.

If a company claimed they "were not the safest, and not the most secure", we'd be all over them as "you told us it was secure" and all hell would break loose.
 
Last edited:

DCIFRTHS

macrumors 65816
Jan 25, 2008
1,191
588
The Pegasus spyware was able to be performed remotely by having victims click on links (e.g., send via text, messaging apps, emails, etc.) that would then proceed to install the spyware in the background.

I wouldn’t go ahead and say that this can only be installed by someone with physical access to your phone.

Thanks for the info. Now I'm debating on whether it's safe to click the link you provided...
 
  • Like
Reactions: nickgovier

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Not surprised, encryption of iCloud communication and storage has been a frequently mentioned topic. If Apple gets on full encryption, we would all be better off.

Also, can we talk about how Apple isn’t offering iCloud Mac backups yet? Think of how much $ they are leaving on the table. Actually, I’m shocked they aren’t ready for this yet, they would be raking in the cash from people upgrading their storage to do backups.
Can they not access the end-to-end encrypted info? Access to on-device keys makes it sound like they can.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Yanks go blue in the face about a Russians, not a peep out of them about Israelis who are the most malicious group with a long history of these type of exploits...remember them infecting and hostile taking over Iranian nuclear power station control systems?

Bah freak show planet....
I love how the newspapers keep telling me the Russian Snapchat clone is evil because it sends photos to servers. Uh, Snapchat does that too, assuming you send the photo. Maybe the Russian one is more evil, but they haven't given me a reason to believe so.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

burgman

macrumors 68030
Sep 24, 2013
2,722
2,296
Wonder why Apple doesn’t sue companies that reverse engineer their hardware and software to make hacking products. Its right in the EULA and T&C. Certainly Apple is aware of these security companies and how they operate, and Apple certainly knows how to use the legal system. So Apple must be ok with them doing what they do, and who their clients are.
 

Bawstun

Suspended
Jun 25, 2009
2,374
2,999
Not American civilians. You can argue it's immoral but not that it's unconstitutional.
[doublepost=1563618591][/doublepost]
Snowden didn't tell us anything like that. Security has a purpose. Otherwise I wouldn't have a bank account.
[doublepost=1563618807][/doublepost]
I love how the newspapers keep telling me the Russian Snapchat clone is evil because it sends photos to servers. Uh, Snapchat does that too, assuming you send the photo. Maybe the Russian one is more evil, but they haven't given me a reason to believe so.

You are sadly mistaken. Literally just this past week were more reports of the NSA wiretapping everday American citizens without warrants - no barriers whatsoever.

Snowden released thousands and thousands of documents, basically he said any phone in existence can be tapped, cracked and listened in on. It makes no difference who manufactures it. He also recommended uninstalling Facebook and all forms of social media, and up to and including covering microphones and cameras on laptops and smartphones.

He released thousands of pages documenting how the microphone has been used by apps even when denied permission or the phone is locked — to spy on you and serve you targeted advertisements.

No phone or phone user is safe. It is literally a psychological fallacy designed to keep you with a false sense of security. You cannot have a smartphone and be secure.
 

RogerWilco

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2011
824
1,361
Wonder why Apple doesn’t sue companies that reverse engineer their hardware and software to make hacking products. Its right in the EULA and T&C. Certainly Apple is aware of these security companies and how they operate, and Apple certainly knows how to use the legal system. So Apple must be ok with them doing what they do, and who their clients are.
They avoid lawsuits because they would have to go through a discovery process (mandated by the court) where each side is required to answer detailed questions about the case for the opposing lawyers. Apple would end up revealing a lot of proprietary information.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.