Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,305
9,005
The argument is that a PRO user, paying this much for a device, should be able to manage their own data without using the cloud if they want to.
I don't think that's a good argument. Every device, no matter what it is, or who makes it, comes with inherent features. It will do some things well, some things marginally, and some things not at all. You can't just wish for features on the basis that the word Pro is in the name...

It's a Pro device, I want to keep my data on a connected NTFS hard drive.
It's a Pro device, I want to rip music directly from my CD collection.
It's a Pro device, it should mirror multiple 5K displays.
It's a Pro device...
 

zerocustom1989

macrumors regular
Sep 5, 2007
246
22
I don't think that's a good argument. Every device, no matter what it is, or who makes it, comes with inherent features. It will do some things well, some things marginally, and some things not at all. You can't just wish for features on the basis that the word Pro is in the name...

It's a Pro device, I want to keep my data on a connected NTFS hard drive.
It's a Pro device, I want to rip music directly from my CD collection.
It's a Pro device, it should mirror multiple 5K displays.
It's a Pro device...

A $300 iPad supports media syncing and a $4,000 computer advertised for media playback does not.

Itā€™s okay for people to expect more from it. File feedbacks or it will never change
 

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,305
9,005
Itā€™s okay for people to expect more from it. File feedbacks or it will never change
I agree with that. I also understand it's a 1.0 product. visionOS 1.1 is apparently on the near horizon and it's already fixing things. This is going to mature fast just like early iPhones did.
 

Zwhaler

macrumors 604
Jun 10, 2006
7,131
1,696
You seem to be thinking that the only possible reason behind Apple not offering that kind of functionality is that they want to make more money by selling iCloud subscriptions (the "Apple is evil" argument).

Obviously Apple wants to make more money, but that's not the only reason.

If you want the best possible user experience, something that "works like magic", you have to rely on cloud services.

Without iCloud, you'd be saving a handful of dollars a month, but you'd have to manage everything manually, which is not what most Apple users want to do.

Apple's target audience (me included) is made out of people that are willing to spend more to get the most seamless experience possible.



There are several drawbacks and costs associated with offering "multiple options".
  1. It costs more in terms of development and maintenance.
  2. It makes the product less intuitive to use for everyone except the users that benefit from the alternative options.
  3. It makes the product less innovative (can't implement new features if they are incompatible with legacy features).

Companies have to carefully evaluate the costs and benefits of each feature/option against their target market when designing a product.

P2P sync has almost no benefits and a lot of drawbacks for the vast majority of users. Therefore Apple would be totally right about dropping it completely in favour of iCloud sync.

If you prioritize saving a few bucks a month at the expense of doing all the sync manually, then you'd be better served by a Linux machine.
Disagree hard.

Regarding the first part of your post, nothing is negatively affected by allowing the AVP to pop up when you plug it into your computer. To act like this is some sort of monumental feat of engineering and will ruin the magic of iCloud is a joke.

Part B, 1. This argument works for a small rinky-dink startup or declining tech giant living in the shadow of its twentieth-century self, but certainly not Apple. The "cost" of allowing a device with onboard storage to be accessible from a computer is utterly negligible. This isn't about development costs. P2P incurs a double cost, since it costs $ to develop and implement the P2P, but more importantly, it takes revenue away from iCloud services.

2. Again, this "feature" of plugging the AVP in and having your computer recognize it is invisible for iCloud users and doesn't negatively affect your experience. Case closed.

3. This is not even on topic. We're talking about having two options instead of one. You're saying that having fewer options is better, even though the iCloud option doesn't affect P2P whatsoever. That makes no sense. Look no further than an iPad. I thought the AVP was a spacial computer?

Apple is deliberately making life slightly more difficult every year for non-iCloud users. This is true irrespective of Apple's intentions. It just so happens to benefit them financially.
 

ZombiePhysicist

macrumors 68030
May 22, 2014
2,807
2,707
I don't think that's a good argument. Every device, no matter what it is, or who makes it, comes with inherent features. It will do some things well, some things marginally, and some things not at all. You can't just wish for features on the basis that the word Pro is in the name...

It's a Pro device, I want to keep my data on a connected NTFS hard drive.
It's a Pro device, I want to rip music directly from my CD collection.
It's a Pro device, it should mirror multiple 5K displays.
It's a Pro device...
That exactly is a good argument. Itā€™s a pro device I want to develop complex software on it.,,,
 

Antoniosmalakia

macrumors 6502
Jun 28, 2021
327
825
That exactly is a good argument. Itā€™s a pro device I want to develop complex software on it.,,,
They added the word Pro to try and justify the price.

I don't think there will be any true professionals working using this, any more than I expect they use an iPad Pro. The pro apps I need to use have never been developed for the iPad Pro, and are almost certainly never coming to this thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: arkitect

Harry Haller

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2023
547
1,203
They added the word Pro to try and justify the price.

I don't think there will be any true professionals working using this, any more than I expect they use an iPad Pro. The pro apps I need to use have never been developed for the iPad Pro, and are almost certainly never coming to this thing.

Pro doesnā€™t mean professional in the RDF, it means profound.
Apple is profound, Apple gear is profound, Tim Praying Hands is profound.
I hope this helps.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ZombiePhysicist

tornadowrangler

macrumors regular
Sep 5, 2020
139
255
I don't think that's a good argument. Every device, no matter what it is, or who makes it, comes with inherent features. It will do some things well, some things marginally, and some things not at all. You can't just wish for features on the basis that the word Pro is in the name...

It's a Pro device, I want to keep my data on a connected NTFS hard drive.
It's a Pro device, I want to rip music directly from my CD collection.
It's a Pro device, it should mirror multiple 5K displays.
It's a Pro device...
Maybe my argument isn't good, but your's isn't that great either.

But let me clarify, my argument should have been about expectation, not wants. Obviously some people expected to be able to transfer media without iCloud, just like they can on the iPad and iPhone, otherwise this wouldn't be a discussion. This in fact had nothing to do with them being pro devices, so we can set aside that for now.

Many probably see this as a reasonable expectation because visionOS is based on the iPadOS, which can be manually synced and managed without iCloud. Now, it being a "pro" device does imply it is for more advanced users, so it would be reasonable to expect a feature-set catering to those advanced users, or at least not lacking more advanced features that non-pro devices have.

Your other examples are straw men. These are things nobody reasonably expected, and your argument seems to be that because extreme expectations are unreasonable, that all expectations are.

My only point is that it should be acceptable for people to complain about missing features they reasonably expected to be there based on the cost and status of the device. What exactly is the problem with that?

Also I am a neutral party in this. I use iCloud and do not ever plan on getting a Apple Vision Pro. I actually think it's going to be a failure of a device on par with the PowerGlove. And I do not hope I'm wrong.
 

scorpio vega

macrumors 65816
May 3, 2023
1,340
1,659
Raleigh, NC
I absolutely will, because it doesn't need to be.
Says you? Or the company who makes it lol.

You have the choice of using iCloud or not. You have the choice of buying it or not.

Very simple how that works.

I despise google and everything about them. Iā€™m aware that to use their phone service monthly and to subscribe on YouTube I need a gmail.

Guess what? I donā€™t complain about it because I get why it works that way.
 

Sorinut

macrumors 68000
Feb 26, 2015
1,670
4,557
Says you? Or the company who makes it lol.

You have the choice of using iCloud or not. You have the choice of buying it or not.

Very simple how that works.

I despise google and everything about them. Iā€™m aware that to use their phone service monthly and to subscribe on YouTube I need a gmail.

Guess what? I donā€™t complain about it because I get why it works that way.

I choose to not just roll over and take it when companies do something I don't care for. I let them know, and will continue to do so.
 

scorpio vega

macrumors 65816
May 3, 2023
1,340
1,659
Raleigh, NC
You can let people voice their totally acceptable feedback and frustrations without white knighting for a multi trillion dollar company.

Like I said, file feedback or contact support.
Not white knighting at all Just pointing out the ridiculousness Behind it lol.

You literally have the choice to not buy it. Complaining that a product I didnā€™t buy is made to be used a specific way is silly.

Are you new to macrumors? That's what we do here.
Not at all. Itā€™s also why I spend less time here now.
 

Antoniosmalakia

macrumors 6502
Jun 28, 2021
327
825
So you complain about things you literally have more power in not buying. Got it
People have bought it and are only now finding out how limited it is.

Apple didnā€™t announce that this is some beta product that wonā€™t have certain things to begin with, they told everyone itā€™s the ā€œfuture nowā€ or what ever.

The future for most people isnā€™t paying more to sync data from an ssd you already own to another ssd you just bought.
 

BanditoB

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2009
481
256
Chicago, IL
I even use Advanced Data Protection, and think that one should not have to buy iCloud data just to move pictures over. That isn't required on an iPad, which is what this is supposedly based on.
How do you get the photos on iPad? Through the files app? Doesnā€™t this work on the AVP as well? I have moved some movies over from my NAS and played them in the Moon Player app.
 

ZombiePhysicist

macrumors 68030
May 22, 2014
2,807
2,707
So you complain about things you literally have more power in not buying. Got it

Hmm people complained they wanted CD burners not dvd players and Apple changed. They complained we didnā€™t like a not upgradable trashcan Mac Pro and they gave us a slot based machine. They complained they didnā€™t want bs CSAM scanning and Apple pulled the ā€œfeatureā€. They complained about not informing them that they slowed down their iPhones to save battery and they (got sued) and added a selectable feature to disable that if they wanted. People complained about hundreds of software and UI features that got changed. Healthy criticism and feedback has resulted in countless changes that apparently you are unaware of such insanely banal history.
 
Last edited:

eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68020
Feb 25, 2011
2,300
2,767
Hmm people complained they wanted CD burners not dvd players and Apple changed. They complained we didnā€™t like a not upgradable trashcan Mac Pro and they gave us a slot based machine. They complained they didnā€™t want bs CSAM scanning and Apple pulled the ā€œfeatureā€. They complained about not informing them that they slowed down their iPhones to save battery and they (got sued) and added a selectable feature to disable that if they wanted. People complained about hundreds of software and UI features that got changed. Healthy Cristian and feedback has resulted in countless changes that apparently you are unaware of such insanely banal history.
Absolutely fantastic point. We tend to recall the "You are holding it wrong," and forget all of the above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZombiePhysicist

eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68020
Feb 25, 2011
2,300
2,767
How do you get the photos on iPad? Through the files app? Doesnā€™t this work on the AVP as well? I have moved some movies over from my NAS and played them in the Moon Player app.
I don't have an AVP, so I have no idea. But on an iPad, you can physically connect it to your PC/Mac and move the files over.
 

masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,810
2,736
San Jose, CA
I would agree this is a deficiency on Apple's part - but I'm also optimistic that future versions of visionOS / Vision Pro will improve this.

I was pretty flabbergasted that I couldn't connect any storage device to the AVP - I have a use case of several 360 videos I'd like to play on it, but apparently the only reliable way is to use iCloud sync - even AirDrops were not very reliable.

Ideally any USB-C storage device connected to the input USB-C port on the external battery would have enabled external storage access. Hopefully this will be addressed in the future....
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.