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atomic.flip

macrumors 6502a
Dec 7, 2008
786
1,441
Orange County, CA
Apple charges $99/year for developer access. That's trivial.

Just curious with all these opinions. How many of you have apps in the AppStore? And how many of you are actively developing apps for the AppStore?

If you aren’t doing any of that then frankly your opinions on this topic are about as trivial as you allege the 99 dollars Apple charges for beta development SDK access. LOL
 

aidler

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2009
472
1,095
So, this basically is the death of any hope for alternative App Store in iOS. Yes, I know the wording says “delayed”, but once it happens, it can happen again, again and Again. There’s not even a timeline, and court process like this can easily drag on for years.
Apple is beyond “too big to fail” at this point.
Nobody is ever too big to fail. That would be against the laws of nature.
 

noraa

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2003
539
1,227
Apple's App Store. Apple's own rules.

Apple App Store belongs to Apple. It belongs to Apple; thus, it needs to be played with its own rules. If these companies don't like it. Why not come up with their own App Store?
Because Apple doesn’t allow 3rd party app stores… That was Epic’s entire complaint against Apple. If Epic could build their own App Store for iOS they would have, and this entire lawsuit would never have happened.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,141
8,093
I mean I don't ask Playstation or Xbox to let me buy stuff elsewhere... It'll be interesting to see the supreme court fight, if it gets there
And, I think this is what will likely apply. If a thing is approved for everyone to do but NOT Apple, then they would pepper the lawyers with questions trying to determine what sets Apple apart. Then it’s down to whether or not that difference is worth effectively creating a law that only impacts Apple.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,141
8,093
Because Apple doesn’t allow 3rd party app stores…
But it’s not like Apple hid that fact. They said “We don’t have 3rd party app stores” and Epic was like “WE DON’T CARE, WE JUST WANT ACCESS TO THOSE APP STORE CUSTOMERS!” A stronger point would have been to stick to their principles (ok, there weren’t any principles, but still!), NOT release anything on iOS and filed a lawsuit against a contract they felt was unfair and illegal to enter into… instead of entering into that first agreement and then not liking it. :)
 

Carnegie

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2012
837
1,984
Doesn't the Supreme Court have more pressing issues, like cases that involve First or Fourteenth amendment rights?

Apple should just ask an appeals court to overturn the judge's ruling and be done with it. Problem solved!
Apple will be raising some pretty important legal questions in its Supreme Court cert petition, questions that could have broader applicability. That said, it's unlikely that the Supreme Court will grant cert and hear this case. The Court receives 8,000-ish cert petitions a year and only grants around 1% of them. So, yeah, it may have more pressing issues to weigh in on but that doesn't mean individual parties aren't allowed to ask it to weigh in on issues (i.e. decide cases) important to them.

As for asking an appeals court to overturn a judge's decision, that's what Apple (and Epic) did here. They appealed the original district court decision to the Ninth Circuit. The Ninth Circuit then made its decision (and declined en banc review) and so what's left is to ask the Supreme Court to hear the case.
 

Solomani

macrumors 601
Sep 25, 2012
4,785
10,477
Slapfish, North Carolina
I dont know what banana republic you’re from, but in the EU you don’t just buy out judges.

Don't be silly. Here in the Banana States of Murica, our billionaires don't buy out judges, because that would be WRONG. The correct way to do it is donate modest yachts and Club Med vacations to the judges.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,774
2,761
This is what I dislike about iPhone, locked down eco system that you can't fully change to your liking, that's why a have a Rooted LineageOS Phone that I use often, and I don't get viruses from it. (shocker!)
What you dislike about it is exactly what 2 billion iOS users like about it. It sounds like Android is calling for you and everyone in your camp. Doesn't that solve the issues for both sides?
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,491
19,259
We all know there's a walled garden. Don't like it? Run android. No one is forcing a developer to sell their product through the app store (just like no one forces a business to sell through wal-mart, target, or amazon).
I think you're mixing up analogies. The app developer is analogous to a business, and Apple is analogous to Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc.

You're correct though in that no one would have to force a business to sell through Walmart, Target, or Amazon because that business would be able to choose where it sells it products and can extract favorable terms from one retailer to use it against another retailer. If the business doesn't like Walmart's terms, it can go to Target. Don't like Target's terms either? It can go to Costco, Amazon, or one of the many other retailers. It can even launch its own website and sell directly to the consumer.

Can't do that with Apple though as they're the only game in town. That is anti-competitive. The EU's Digital Markets Act aims to fix that.


Other countries such as South Korea and India will eventually follow


 

Student of Life

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2020
689
738
I think you're mixing up analogies. The app developer is analogous to a business, and Apple is analogous to Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc.

You're correct though in that no one would have to force a business to sell through Walmart, Target, or Amazon because that business would be able to choose where it sells it products and can extract favorable terms from one retailer to use it against another retailer. If the business doesn't like Walmart's terms, it can go to Target. Don't like Target's terms either? It can go to Costco, Amazon, or one of the many other retailers. It can even launch its own website and sell directly to the consumer.

Can't do that with Apple though as they're the only game in town. That is anti-competitive. The EU's Digital Markets Act aims to fix that.


Other countries such as South Korea and India will eventually follow


Did Android vanish off the face of the earth?
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,491
19,259
Just curious with all these opinions. How many of you have apps in the AppStore? And how many of you are actively developing apps for the AppStore?

If you aren’t doing any of that then frankly your opinions on this topic are about as trivial as you allege the 99 dollars Apple charges for beta development SDK access. LOL
Why does one have to be an app developer for an opinion to count?

Apple's control over their app store hurts the user as well. If iOS users were allowed access to a 3rd party app store or to simply get apps off the web like macOS users can, then users would be able to get the apps they want and need despite what a country may dictate


or what Apple allows you to access

The sense of concern has been echoed by several other developers on Twitter who have also received App Improvement Notices, with developers highlighting... that some apps exist as "completed objects," and therefore do not require "updates or a live service model."
 

dwaite

macrumors 65816
Jun 11, 2008
1,237
1,019
Someone should sue Apple for not respecting Trademarks. We tried to get my daughter the real Anki App for her iPad. WT everlasting F... Come on Apple, it is such a nightmare finding the real owner of an app because any popular app has its name used by scam apps. It is not just me:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anki/comments/ewoir7
Anki is the Japanese word for memorization. It is not a trademark.

You also don't get to sue (in the US) as a third party because you think someone else violated a trademark - you have no standing. It would be up to Anki (the non-trademark-holding GitHub project I suppose) to lawyer up.

There are so many better (and legitimate) examples, why would you pick this?
 

MastersoftMobile

macrumors member
Jan 14, 2022
53
127
As a developer, I don't want more app stores, I just want the existing one to play fair.
After spending $1000s with Apple Search Ads for the search term "chess" my 5 star app is still below a 3 star one abandoned 7 years ago that hasn't advertised at all :).
 

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BiscottiGelato

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2011
320
166
Good. They shouldn't need to anyways.

Apple deserves the cut. Don't like it? Build your own phone. Don't want to spend billions in R&D like Apple did? Build for the Play Store. Don't like Google's Play Store? Build your own Android store. Don't like Android? Build for the web.

Plenty of options but self entitled developers think they get to control Apple's App Store. SMH.
That's an insane argument. With that logic, the same should apply that if Apple wants to do whatever they want, they should pay for their own phones and not expect customers to pay for them. If they want customer's money to buy their phones, customers should get to do what they want with the phone after they paid for it.

You can't dictate how the paid for HW should be used, and also take people's money at the same time.
 

mpkossen

macrumors newbie
Sep 16, 2020
20
30
Because Apple doesn’t allow 3rd party app stores… That was Epic’s entire complaint against Apple. If Epic could build their own App Store for iOS they would have, and this entire lawsuit would never have happened.
Because based on the tremendous success of third party app stores on Android, Epic can surely make the case it's a good idea on iOS... SARCASM SIGN

This move is nothing but pure greed from Epic and they would surely create as much of their own walled garden if they could... Doesn't mean I would oppose being able to (easily) sideload apps on iOS - given proper security precautions are in place.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
8,983
11,733
Turns out people aren't so different from ChatGPT after all. Giving the prompt "Epic App Store" just triggers pages and pages of people putting one word after another following predictable patterns... I'm sure I'll get baited into participating sooner or later, too...

For the record, this has nothing to do with alternative App Stores. Apple is asking for time before they need to implement rule changes that would allow apps to tell you that you can buy a subscription somewhere else and still use your app.
 
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