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GMShadow

macrumors 68000
Jun 8, 2021
1,811
7,431
Why does one have to be an app developer for an opinion to count?

Apple's control over their app store hurts the user as well. If iOS users were allowed access to a 3rd party app store or to simply get apps off the web like macOS users can, then users would be able to get the apps they want and need despite what a country may dictate

"All devices sold in our country will use the country approved App Store. All other stores are banned."

But sure, pull the other leg.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,698
10,998
If they make an actual removable battery, it'd increase weight and make phones more susceptible to damage, which I wouldn't want.

I suspect they'll get around the ruling by simply not using glue to hold batteries in place, and selling the parts and tools. But if you break it, or use a third party battery, no warranty coverage. I'm ok with that (I'd never put a cut-rate battery into a $1200 phone and risk frying it).

Eventually some company is going to tell the EU (or California) to pound sand on these micromanagement rules.
And those companies would have no material impact observed from those micromanagement rules anyway, and customer will be the loser (as they always be). After all, every customer is just a mere entry in the database.
Nobody is ever too big to fail. That would be against the laws of nature.
But not in business world and companies with billions of dollars of cash and trillions of dollars of market value. Business world has been vowing to defy the laws of nature for the longest time possible. Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon and the like is the manifest of that.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,698
10,998
Turns out people aren't so different from ChatGPT after all. Giving the prompt "Epic App Store" just triggers pages and pages of people putting one word after another following predictable patterns... I'm sure I'll get baited into participating sooner or later, too...

For the record, this has nothing to do with alternative App Stores. Apple is asking for time before they need to implement rule changes that would allow apps to tell you that you can buy a subscription somewhere else and still use your app.
More like ChatGPT is trained by our data, hence looks like us.
But that’s another topic for another day.
 

CarAnalogy

macrumors 601
Jun 9, 2021
4,266
7,873
Please let the Supreme Court hear this and rule anti-steering unconstitutional. I don’t really want Apple to be forced to make changes and want them to do the right thing, but the anti-steering always seemed like too much.

Even the phrase anti-steering seems like doublespeak. I understand some of the reasoning about guiding people outside the walled garden, but it seems hard to defend.

Would be interesting to hear a Supreme Court opinion on it either way. Not that they’ve been exactly batting 1000 lately.
 
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DEMinSoCAL

macrumors 601
Sep 27, 2005
4,843
6,903
Did Android vanish off the face of the earth?
Can you sell iPhone apps in the Android app store? Nope. The whole point of anti-competitive is that you shouldn't have to be forced to make a different product to sell it somewhere else. You should be able to sell YOUR product at more than one store.
 
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SoldOnApple

macrumors 65816
Jul 20, 2011
1,076
1,790
I mean I don't ask Playstation or Xbox to let me buy stuff elsewhere... It'll be interesting to see the supreme court fight, if it gets there
You can bet if EPIC wins the battle with Apple they will then be coming after Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo. EPIC could release all their games for "free" on consoles, but make it so you can't get past the main menu unless you put in a code you buy from epic.com. Sure that wouldn't quite work this generation, but we are very rapidly approaching a time when the defect console comes without ability to play physical games and games will start accepting this kind of thing.
 

amartinez1660

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2014
1,588
1,622
And here we go again.

It’s already half of 2023, all those billions wasted on trials and tribulations just use them to build a better phone with a better store with a better of everything inside said store. Time to show apple how it’s done!

When it works (which it will because apparently the current one sucks) it will phase out the other stores… until you get to repeat this same situation but from the other side of the fence: random people and random rules trying to hijack your now successfully founded store, except this time you can let them do whatever they want with said open store and let other stores pile on top and pile on the sides concurrently. Hence achieving the ultimate dream: a soup of random app stores.
 

amartinez1660

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2014
1,588
1,622
Can you sell iPhone apps in the Android app store? Nope. The whole point of anti-competitive is that you shouldn't have to be forced to make a different product to sell it somewhere else. You should be able to sell YOUR product at more than one store.
What? I see both Microsoft excel, word, etc on both android and apple stores. Pick another, Jetpack joyride maybe? Pick another: clash of clans and all those supercell games? Pick another… times millions.

Let’s not get started on The Witcher on Switch, PlayStation, Steam PC, Xbox, etc
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,852
6,892
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Good. They shouldn't need to anyways.

Apple deserves the cut. Don't like it? Build your own phone. Don't want to spend billions in R&D like Apple did? Build for the Play Store. Don't like Google's Play Store? Build your own Android store. Don't like Android? Build for the web.

Plenty of options but self entitled developers think they get to control Apple's App Store. SMH.
Fully agree!

Sadly these politicians still don’t understand the Internet and web based apps as alternatives which both AndroidOS and iOS support. Some would argue Amazon App Store for Android Apps but just how many people actually use it beyond their Amazon smartTV or sticks!!??

I mean I don't ask Playstation or Xbox to let me buy stuff elsewhere... It'll be interesting to see the supreme court fight, if it gets there
Or Nintendo for that matter?!
No sanctions on them right?! Right!!??

This clearly shows the monetary corruption in implementing these rules.
That is the whole issue. Epic wanted to do their own thing but apple still is trying to control everything. Apple always likes to cry about "security" yet MacOS is fine with allowing downloads/sideloading from 3rd party locations.
You’re funny.

Epic DID do their own thing via WebBased purchases! Also Epic is hypocritical and does the EXACT same thing for licensing their API and software to developers locking them in to their own access and payment system.

But ooooh no you don’t look that gift horse in the mouth and nor does EU representatives. I hope their (members) bank account transactions are leaked as well as their immediate family members and any GIFTs exemptions from taxation is shown. There you’ll see which was “lobbied” or bought out to push these rules into place while looking the other way.

I’d love for ALL written discussions from beginning to end of all EU representatives be shown as well. Somebody had to know about Epic and others against Apple but ignored the mirror.
 

gregmancuso

macrumors 6502
Nov 1, 2014
408
512
Please let the Supreme Court hear this and rule anti-steering unconstitutional. I don’t really want Apple to be forced to make changes and want them to do the right thing, but the anti-steering always seemed like too much.

Even the phrase anti-steering seems like doublespeak. I understand some of the reasoning about guiding people outside the walled garden, but it seems hard to defend.

Would be interesting to hear a Supreme Court opinion on it either way. Not that they’ve been exactly batting 1000 lately.
There is nothing inherently unconstitutional or evil about anti-steering policies. Apple’s policy is really no different than that every other retailer has in place. A manufacturer is not allowed to sell stock a Target, for example.with packaging stating that the price is cheaper at another WalMart or directly from the manufacturer.

I personally have no opinion on the provision, but it really is not the hill to die on.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,676
22,216
Singapore
This is what I dislike about iPhone, locked down eco system that you can't fully change to your liking, that's why a have a Rooted LineageOS Phone that I use often, and I don't get viruses from it. (shocker!)

There is a recent spate linked to people being tricked into sideloading apps onto their android phones.


One man’s locked down ecosystem could easily mean another guy potentially not being swindled out of his life savings. That’s why I feel a walled garden is neither inherently good nor bad. It just is, but it cannot be a choice that is left up to the individual.

Which is why I say iOS needs to remain locked down to serve as a viable alternative to android, rather than become similar in that regard.
 

tripsync

Suspended
Apr 24, 2023
1,160
703
That's an insane argument. With that logic, the same should apply that if Apple wants to do whatever they want, they should pay for their own phones and not expect customers to pay for them. If they want customer's money to buy their phones, customers should get to do what they want with the phone after they paid for it.

You can't dictate how the paid for HW should be used, and also take people's money at the same time.
I have no idea what you're saying

Apple charges whatever they want, make whatever they want, and it's up to the customers to vote with their wallets.
 

jinnj

macrumors 6502a
Dec 9, 2011
551
499
Plenty of options but self entitled developers think they get to control Apple's App Store. SMH.
This perfectly sums up Epic's Founder Tim Sweeney. The man has missed so many opportunities cause of his ego and now with Tencent's backing is trying to break the iOS platform just so he can catch up to his former competitor, Valve!
 

Blackstick

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2014
1,241
6,017
OH
I dont know what banana republic you’re from, but in the EU you don’t just buy out judges. That judge wouldn’t be judge much longer and the one doing the bribing would go to jail.

Maybe EU law prevents such practices in the public eye, but you never know any deal going on behind the scenes. Besides, there would need to be tons of people with strong integrity in the EU legal system to make bribing not happening, and last time I check, people still loves fat paycheck.
The blind faith Europeans have in judges who live in 8 bedroom homes over there like they’re innocent and honest people. Like high judges and their politicians are humble, impoverished children in a Charles Dickens novel or something.

They just do their corruption and kickbacks super quietly. You think palms aren’t being greased to operate there? We have large offices in London and Paris. Nothing happens in either place without bribes and money to “clear bureaucratic red tape.”

More than likely, Apple will pay a fine per device for non compliance and pass that fee along to each EU customer. Or litigate it in the courts for the next 15 years. They’ve still got iPhone lawsuits open dating back to the 3GS and 4 era… a device that hasn’t been technologically relevant in 12+ years.

India slapped Apple about not including the charger in the box. Apple took it to their courts a year ago and has buzzed along not complying with the Indian request for a year now. They’ll drag it out for a decade if something isn’t technologically or financially convenient for them. I was stunned they decided to comply with the USB-C port.
 

jinnj

macrumors 6502a
Dec 9, 2011
551
499
We all know there's a walled garden. Don't like it? Run android. No one is forcing a developer to sell their product through the app store (just like no one forces a business to sell through wal-mart, target, or amazon).

I detest microtransaction/loot box/gambling/pay to win games, and really don't like software subscriptions either. Does that mean I have a right to a perpetual license? Nope. My only recourse is to not play them (which I do for microtransactions), or suck it up (which I do for most software subscriptions).


If they lose, and are going to have to allow other payment systems, Apple will have to build a new way to monetize the app store. That could include charging for reviews and vetting, paid placement in search results, fees for xcode licenses, etc. That's a complex issue to get right for apps from 10 users to 10 million, but I bet they've already got an internal team working on an 'if we lose' strategy. Don't think for a minute that prices will be cut or Apple's revenue will drop.
Anyone stating that this will lower prices for the end user is a fool. Epic charges the same for their Fortnite bucks on their website as they do on all other platforms. Except for 3 months before they pull this stunt and lowered it to have proof of providing value to the end user.
 

jinnj

macrumors 6502a
Dec 9, 2011
551
499
Because Apple doesn’t allow 3rd party app stores… That was Epic’s entire complaint against Apple. If Epic could build their own App Store for iOS they would have, and this entire lawsuit would never have happened.
Epic/Tencent can't build their store within Walmart either. Epic/Tencent aren't able to build their own store on XBOX/PS/Switch either. Note: they pay the same fees on all those locations except for Walmart/Target/etc which takes 50%.
 

Davelfc

macrumors 6502
Mar 2, 2014
388
651
Liverpool
I suspect they'll get around the ruling by simply not using glue to hold batteries in place, and selling the parts and tools. But if you break it, or use a third party battery, no warranty coverage. I'm ok with that (I'd never put a cut-rate battery into a $1200 phone and risk frying it).
But it isn’t a $1200 phone when the battery needs replacing, ithe value by that time is probably a third or a quarter of that, which is why many do put cheaper batteries in it.
 
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