Kinda doubt about Vision Pros' future.

[Night Spring]

It was easier to manipulate my “windows” with the traditional setup. My TV is always placed in an optimal position, flush with a wall, rather than having to position a video every time. It was simpler to just pick up/put down an iPad than launch and close/move a visionOS window around. With the Vision Pro, it felt like my view was cluttered with these large windows, especially when I wasn’t actively paying attention to them.

I also found it superior to interact with a physical UI - swiping and scrolling in particular feel much better than a pinch and pull (which uses substantial wrist/arm motion). I also wasn’t tethered with cables, didn’t have to wear anything on my face, and everything around me wasn’t blurry.

From my experience during a VP demo, I agree that interacting with a physical interface feels better than the virtual spatial interface we get with the VP. But your use case of TV monitor + 1 iPad isn't the only way people use a VP. My use case would be having 2-3 iPad or VP app windows in front of me. That can't be replicated with physical devices. Well, it could be done by having multiple iPads or computer monitors stationed around you. But that setup requires a desk. You couldn't bring that setup with you to the living room sofa, or in your bed, or out to the backyard.

I know not everyone wants/needs a multiple monitor setup you can bring anywhere with you. If you are satisfied with TV and iPad in a fixed location in your home, then yes, the VP is pointless for you. Some people are never going to want a device like the VP and that's okay, we all have different wants/needs.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

I think this product needs more users than just devs for Apple and developers to get an understanding of how users actually interact with the device, and what real-life problems they run into that won't happen in a lab environment. If you're not ok with paying $4000 to be a beta tester, then yeah, you shouldn't buy this device.


I saw someone in another thread explain that they have Bluray and dvd disks with 3D movies they want to watch in VP. Sounds like a valid use case to me, not sure why you think such use will defeat the very reason VP exists. I would probably rather go for a dongle to attach to the dvd/Bluray player that streams the video to VP over wifi, but I can understand why some people would think HDMI port.

I’ve seen that as well. Understand HDMI is a cable and good ones aren’t flexible or very long. Plus, it’s a cable. This headset was designed to be wireless. IF there was a wireless HDMI dongle that provided 4K video and 5.1 or better sound then perhaps. But that doesn’t exist. Or, if a Blu-Ray player could send the signal over wi-if to a client on the VP, most have home networks that could handle it. Much better solution.

 

[Macaholic868]

Love the new users who come in and trash AVP in the most hyperbolic terms while “promoting” alternative products that aren’t actually competing devices.

I hope you’re at least getting paid for this!

The pathetic thing is this person isn’t getting paid. A large percentage of the vocal haters spend their free time on a forum for a device they don’t own trashing it for no good reason other than they can’t afford one due to their own life choices and the financial results of them thus feeling excluded from the discussion so they must trash the device to protect their ego.

Are there some who don’t fall into this category? Sure but the vast vocal majority who can’t stop trashing it do fall into this category so I’m going to start calling a spade a spade.

They aren’t to be listened to nor taken seriously unless they actually have a point and the price isn’t one. This isn’t a device designed to appeal to the mass market and Apple acknowledges that given the limited number of these devices that it’s manufacturing. The only people who argue otherwise clearly have an agenda driven by their own damaged ego.

I don’t know of anybody who would choose to spend their free time vocally hating on something repeatedly unless they are either trolling or doing it for some sort of personal ego driven reason which ultimately involves trying to make themselves feel superior which begs the question what is it about the device that might make them feel inferior to begin with? The answer is obvious. The vast majority of vocal haters here either fall into that category or are trolling.

You don’t see people complaining about costs in forums for other expensive luxury items which is what the AVP is at this time unless you’re also in a forum frequented by people who primarily discuss other more affordable products. Then you see the same claws cone out by the same crowd for the same reason.

I’m not rich and not what I’d consider wealthy but when I want something I know how to buy it without accruing debt to acquire it. Plenty of things cost more than $3,500. I’ve got friends who ask how I can afford one of these with a straight face while they drive around in a $65,000 brand new truck they don’t need for work while paying twice what I do for car insurance. It’s called priorities. I don’t hate on them for theirs and they don’t hate on me for mine. I drive a used Jeep Grand Cherokee from 2018 I bought as the pandemic really hit hard here in April of 2020 before the prices on used cars skyrocketed. It’s a great vehicle with 4 wheel drive, leather interior, heated seats and a moonroof and I paid less than $20,00 grand for it at the time because it already had 60,000 miles on it but who cares? I live a couple of miles from where I work. It’s 2024 now and the thing still only has 68,000 miles on it. It’s called life choices. Let the haters keep hating. They look like petulant children.

 

[tomtad]

no good reason other than they can’t afford one due to their own life choices

Your level of disposable income isn't purely based on your own life choices. Come on

 

[batman75]

Your level of disposable income isn't purely based on your own life choices. Come on

True, but his point that there is a segment of people, like the OP here, who go online to trash products because they are rationalizing not buying it in terms other than it's too expensive is a valid point. The OP literally said he sees no value for the product, not even if they made it smaller. That is ridiculous and indicates either a severe lack of imagination or a chip on his shoulder. I have used the AVP and instantly wanted one. I didn't buy it because of the price not fitting my budget, and even then it led me to buy a less expensive device in the same genre. Personal cinema for use when traveling, ability to view immersive content such as documentaries in Spatial 3D, and the ability to relive life experiences and family moments, is a pretty compelling value proposition at the right price and in the right form factor. To say otherwise suggests a motive along the lines of what the previous posted suggests. I can admit I like the product, even if it is too expensive for my current budget.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Your level of disposable income isn't purely based on your own life choices. Come on

Do you know Batman75 personally? Disposable income is largely due to life choices. They start at a young age. Many people live paycheck to paycheck because they chose a way of making money that only offers that. Or they choose to live that way. Plenty of people out there make what some would consider a "rich" income that live paycheck to paycheck as they want to have a bigger house, bigger TV/Theater room, a particular vehicle, eat out at expensive places, etc.

I watched people go through those choices and complain they live paycheck to paycheck, or can't afford this or that. Some of those same people chose to spend nights out drinking, partying, traveling, etc all the time instead of planning. Sorry, but I don't have compassion for that. I did some of those things, but not to the excess I witnessed.

You have a choice to look at what professions or businesses appear to provide the income allowing you to do things you love. You have a choice to act right at work, make yourself available, make yourself promotion worthy. You have a choice to continually review what's out there and learn what you need to know to make a change if that other thing pays more or offers more of what's important to you. You have a choice to save that raise instead of spend to it.

Point is, we all have choices. Every day. I've made mine. I've sacrificed many things to be where I am financially. Pay the price, or go home and stop complaining (if you are one of those who do - not necessarily what I believe you are doing tomtad).

 

[Night Spring]

Do you know Batman75 personally? Disposable income is largely due to life choices. They start at a young age. Many people live paycheck to paycheck because they chose a way of making money that only offers that. Or they choose to live that way. Plenty of people out there make what some would consider a "rich" income that live paycheck to paycheck as they want to have a bigger house, bigger TV/Theater room, a particular vehicle, eat out at expensive places, etc.

I watched people go through those choices and complain they live paycheck to paycheck, or can't afford this or that. Some of those same people chose to spend nights out drinking, partying, traveling, etc all the time instead of planning. Sorry, but I don't have compassion for that. I did some of those things, but not to the excess I witnessed.

You have a choice to look at what professions or businesses appear to provide the income allowing you to do things you love. You have a choice to act right at work, make yourself available, make yourself promotion worthy. You have a choice to continually review what's out there and learn what you need to know to make a change if that other thing pays more or offers more of what's important to you. You have a choice to save that raise instead of spend to it.

Point is, we all have choices. Every day. I've made mine. I've sacrificed many things to be where I am financially. Pay the price, or go home and stop complaining (if you are one of those who do - not necessarily what I believe you are doing tomtad).

If you were born middle class or above in a first world country, this is true. But not everyone is born into economic/social/political circumstances that give them full autonomy over their life course.

I also disagree with the theory that everyone who is spending excessive time posting negative opinions about VP are doing so out of envy for a product they can't afford. I can easily envision someone who just doesn't like the idea of wasting money on things they think are pointless, even though they can afford them. In fact, I've had well-off relatives who would lecture me about something or other I chose to spend on, because they thought of them as wasteful.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

If you were born middle class or above in a first world country, this is true. But not everyone is born into economic/social/political circumstances that give them full autonomy over their life course.

I also disagree with the theory that everyone who is spending excessive time posting negative opinions about VP are doing so out of envy for a product they can't afford. I can easily envision someone who just doesn't like the idea of wasting money on things they think are pointless, even though they can afford them. In fact, I've had well-off relatives who would lecture me about something or other I chose to spend on, because they thought of them as wasteful.

You can be born any class in a first world country and still achieve what you want. Everyone has their challenges. In the USA, many from families considered poor have advantages over others. Government subsidies, grant programs, etc. Some things may be a bit harder for them, but many who have made the right choices are what people could consider quite successful.

Elsewhere in the world, you have a point. But when it comes to discussing the VP, I don't see them as a market or discussion point.

I agree, not everyone spending excessive time posting negatively about the VP is doing so because they can't afford it. I'd say the majority just hate on Apple. They don't want Apple to be successful and hate how they prefer control to ensure better experiences with their products. And I too have had those discussions about spending money on things some felt were not worth the spend. Before buying the VP, it was a discussion I had with myself.

 

[batman75]

I also disagree with the theory that everyone who is spending excessive time posting negative opinions about VP are doing so out of envy for a product they can't afford.

This is true. Not everyone who posts a negative opinion of this product is doing so out of envy. But whoever does is clearly got a lack of taste.

 

[Night Spring]

You can be born any class in a first world country and still achieve what you want. Everyone has their challenges. In the USA, many from families considered poor have advantages over others. Government subsidies, grant programs, etc. Some things may be a bit harder for them, but many who have made the right choices are what people could consider quite successful.

I wouldn't call government subsidies, grant programs, etc, *advantages*. They are meant to correct the disadvantages of being born poor. And just because some are able to make it out of poverty, doesn't mean that those who can't are lazy or made the wrong choices. I mean, someone born poor has to work a lot harder and be a lot smarter/disciplined/etc than someone born middle class to get to the same economic/social level. A person of middling ability born middle class can probably stay middle class with a minimum of effort, but a person born poor with the same level of ability will likely stay poor.

 

[Dovahkiing]

seems like as good a time as any to lock this thread…

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I agree, not everyone spending excessive time posting negatively about the VP is doing so because they can't afford it. I'd say the majority just hate on Apple. They don't want Apple to be successful and hate how they prefer control to ensure better experiences with their products. And I too have had those discussions about spending money on things some felt were not worth the spend. Before buying the VP, it was a discussion I had with myself.

Huh? A lot of the people sharing negative opinions on the AVP are Apple customers in some capacity. Why would they not want Apple to do well and deliver good products? I’ve criticised it to some degree and can afford it and am also an iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch user. Just because some may think it’s an over priced gimmick, it doesn’t mean they are on a campaign of hate for Apple the company.

 

[Macaholic868]

Huh? A lot of the people sharing negative opinions on the AVP are Apple customers in some capacity. Why would they not want Apple to do well and deliver good products? I’ve criticised it to some degree and can afford it and am also an iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch user. Just because some may think it’s an over priced gimmick, it doesn’t mean they are on a campaign of hate for Apple the company.

Nobody here, myself included, has used to the term “all” or even implied it that I’m aware of. In fact I qualified what I was saying at least twice in my original post on this. Of course not all users with negative things to say are doing it because they can’t afford it and don’t want to feel excluded. I’m talking specifically about those people who come here day after day just to bag on the device, not those who actually offer constructive criticism. What I’m saying is a large percentage of those that do come here and bag on it frequently are either in that category or are just trolling and I want to be clear that I’m even qualifying that statement by saying I think it’s a large percentage because, again, it’s not everybody.

As for the discussion about life choices and device affordability again I never said that the only factor dictating whether or not somebody can afford the device is life choices. That’s clearly not true. Bad things happen to good people and unfortunately for some of us the three choices that make up the statistics below aren’t always choices for everyone but they are for the majority of Americans and for others in First World nations.

Search the web for “The Success Sequence” and you’ll find something similar to the following. There are a lot of places where this is discussed so this is just one of many quick summarizations of the general concept behind it. Some places tweak these 3 steps slightly and get slightly different percentages as a result. For instance take 1 listed below. Some will define the first step as finishing high school while you attend, others will define it as getting a high school diploma or completing a GED program, etc. and small tweaks like that can slightly skewer the percentages one way or the other but the general concept remains:

The Success Sequence states that by taking the following three steps (in that order), men and women of all races and socio-economic backgrounds will have much lower poverty rates and much higher rates of middle-income status than those who do not complete the milestones:

1. Get at least a high school degree
2. Get a full-time job
3. Get married before having children

Recent research indicates 97% of millennials who follow all three steps are not poor as adults. Additionally, 90% of young adults who complete the first two steps (graduate high school and get a full-time job) are not poor in their 30s. In comparison, half of adults in their 30s who missed all three steps (52%) are in poverty.

In 2021, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services assessed the benefits of the Success Sequence for “Economic Self-Sufficiency”. It concluded that “Consistent with prior research, the analysis shows that high school completion, full-time employment, and marriage are all associated with an increased chance of avoiding poverty in young adulthood… Consequently, young adults with the lowest poverty rates are those who have completed some combination of high school, employment, and marriage.”

 

[AdonisSMU]

I guess I should report in… but I came to say that I use the AVP more now than I did when I first received it on February 3rd.

 

[xraydoc]

I guess I should report in… but I came to say that I use the AVP more now than I did when I first received it on February 3rd.

My poor iPad is feeling lonely. I've preferentially gone to the AVP over the iPad for couch internet browsing and such. I do sometimes put my Magic Keyboard in my lap so I can type on various forums like this and Reddit and such -- I find dictating to Siri awkward for things like that and the virtual keyboard is too slow.