Everyone’s use case is different so it’s hard to say exactly what temperature. People who need the power will not care because they still need it to get their tasks done so if the temp is a big issue for someone, he should not own max.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
M3 Max Low-Power Mode is INSANE
- Thread starter macduke
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So there is a universal scenario where everyone’s m3 max starts throttling regardless of what the users are running ? I am just curious!
If it’s like any other cpu then yes. It will have a programmed temperature at which it will throttle to keep below a certain temp
14700k, for example, will run at max speed until it hits 100 degrees Celsius. It will then slow itself down to keep below that temp.
Got it. Is it safe to say that different use cases lead to different temperatures hence different throttling experiences? This is what I meant. My understanding is that more powerful chips will always generate more heat and use more energy to get things done faster, leading to higher temps.
Sure.
But my question, which you replied to,
was how hot does m3 max get and at what temp does it throttle.
It could also be the case that it throttle based on power limit before it ever hits a temp limit
I don’t know anything about them. That’s why I’m asking
Okay. I don't have the exact data to answer your questions and should not have left a comment. My initial comment started from a post about people saying putting max chip in 14 is a disaster due to the high temp. I hope they don't throttle based on the power limit.... Are you debating to get m3 max?
Power throttling would actually make sense since they are mobile chips
I just built a new pc instead of going m3
Sonoma is probably the last macos that will run on intel though so my next computer will almost certainly be apple silicon
i've also did some metrics / power testing : https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m3-max-14c-powermetrics-wattage-wrong-14-vs-16.2414321/
it would've been great if the 14 m3 max had the low-power profile of the 16 (higher clock), compressor video encoding time/power is very nice on 16 lp.
it would've been great if the 14 m3 max had the low-power profile of the 16 (higher clock), compressor video encoding time/power is very nice on 16 lp.
Last edited:
Can anyone confirm what is mentioned in this video, with regards to music production?
Anyone with an M3 Max try this in Logic, running high track counts, 100-200 instances of Kontakt, VIs, and effects, in low-power mode? Does the fan still kick on? Does the machine choke?
Anyone with an M3 Max try this in Logic, running high track counts, 100-200 instances of Kontakt, VIs, and effects, in low-power mode? Does the fan still kick on? Does the machine choke?
If your debating between the Pro and the Max, there is always a middle ground to consider if your are worried about heat and throttling which is the same thing I was worried about. You could go with the base M3 Max which is what I did as a compromise because the Pro was weak but I didn't need the full max. All chips create heat, so with 2 less cpu cores and 10 less gpu cores the base max should run cooler than the 16 core 40 core gpu fat max and of course its $500 cheaper. Been extremely happy with my 16" inch. The fans never come on during general use, only when I run a Benchmark or Final Cut. Under general use the temps are always 35-40c for the CPUs and 32c for the GPUs with the room temperature at 21c (71 degrees F).
Last edited:
Hello gentlemen,
I have been reading this thread and it seems like I could get the help I was looking for. My problem is that the use case I am facing is pretty hard to research although it’s rudimentary and simple imo.
The goal is to run several VMs (Windows and or Macos) using parallels. Inside those VMs basic stuff would be happening like office, mail, YouTube and one dedicated VM for researching whilst opening 30-40 tabs in Firefox occasionally. Another use case would be coding in python but nothing fancy. At times those VMs would run at once. Sometimes two or three simultaneously. I would say 70% of the time one VM would be running alone with a lot of tabs opened.
I am not looking at ANY content creation or video/music editing.
Now… I am coming from a windows i7 laptop where the fans are driving me crazy, any VM on its own causes the machine to heat up and working with it becomes very annoying plus it’s very laggy although 32gb ram is never an issue. To solve this problem going back to macOS became a reasonable idea since those M chips are known for their power and efficiency.
So where does my use case fall? Pro or Max category? From my understanding I need to focus on the CPU count rather than GPU cores but I wouldn’t mind extra GPU cores if I had to jump to the max due to the CPU demands. Playing games occasionally would be a nice bonus I guess.
Picking M2 or M3(both in 16” not looking for 14”): From what I have researched the issues with the M3 are the lower RAM bandwidth and the fans kicking in early. Furthermore the performance vs efficiency cores combination on the pro version was giving me a headache too, since I expect multiple VMs will benefit from more P-Cores and six won’t be satisfying the demands given? That’s why I jumped from the Pro Version to the max to have 10P instead. Apple really messed up the configuration with the M3 iteration and I am pretty sure it’s on purpose. They force me into upgrading to a configuration that I won’t need most of the time.
Alternatively I was trying to get a M2 Max (12c/38c) but those have become very rare if you don’t want to spend a premium. Plus I would like to have the 600nits out of the box.
Then I came across the Low power mode with the M3 and ended up in this forum after I had tried to contact parallels support which was a bad idea and waste of time. The incompetence was surprising to say the least.
Can you guys help me to the get a better understanding of this use case and if it’s even possible to get rid off the fan noise issue with a m3 max WITHOUT running the low power mode all the time. It bothers me to know that I am spending so much money to end up with overpowered machine I have to run in a throttled mode.
I would have picked the M3 pro but the 6P cores are simply not ok. Is it true that the M2 Max will run cooler and more silent for the same tasks? Will the 8P cores of the M2 Max be enough or better go for the 10P cores and the m3 max?
I mean some retail dealers asking 3800 euro for the 12c/38c m2 while offering the m3 14c/30c for 3700 Euro. Or just wait for the M4 end of this year hoping the pro versions will have 8P cores and more Bandwidth again?
It’s so annoying how apple handled this generation with their decision also with this fingerprint magnet color.
Some general questions:
1) Does parallels utilize performance or efficiency cores for those kind of use cases?
2) Do I have to take single core or multi core performance into account when looking at benchmarks?
3) understanding the physics behind power one would assume that more powerful cpus would always drain more watts for the same tasks by nature? Which would always lead to higher temps and more fan activities? That’s why in the past I have been buying i5 cpus even in MacBook Pros during the intel days. I hope I am not fundamentally wrong with my assumptions.
I have been reading this thread and it seems like I could get the help I was looking for. My problem is that the use case I am facing is pretty hard to research although it’s rudimentary and simple imo.
The goal is to run several VMs (Windows and or Macos) using parallels. Inside those VMs basic stuff would be happening like office, mail, YouTube and one dedicated VM for researching whilst opening 30-40 tabs in Firefox occasionally. Another use case would be coding in python but nothing fancy. At times those VMs would run at once. Sometimes two or three simultaneously. I would say 70% of the time one VM would be running alone with a lot of tabs opened.
I am not looking at ANY content creation or video/music editing.
Now… I am coming from a windows i7 laptop where the fans are driving me crazy, any VM on its own causes the machine to heat up and working with it becomes very annoying plus it’s very laggy although 32gb ram is never an issue. To solve this problem going back to macOS became a reasonable idea since those M chips are known for their power and efficiency.
So where does my use case fall? Pro or Max category? From my understanding I need to focus on the CPU count rather than GPU cores but I wouldn’t mind extra GPU cores if I had to jump to the max due to the CPU demands. Playing games occasionally would be a nice bonus I guess.
Picking M2 or M3(both in 16” not looking for 14”): From what I have researched the issues with the M3 are the lower RAM bandwidth and the fans kicking in early. Furthermore the performance vs efficiency cores combination on the pro version was giving me a headache too, since I expect multiple VMs will benefit from more P-Cores and six won’t be satisfying the demands given? That’s why I jumped from the Pro Version to the max to have 10P instead. Apple really messed up the configuration with the M3 iteration and I am pretty sure it’s on purpose. They force me into upgrading to a configuration that I won’t need most of the time.
Alternatively I was trying to get a M2 Max (12c/38c) but those have become very rare if you don’t want to spend a premium. Plus I would like to have the 600nits out of the box.
Then I came across the Low power mode with the M3 and ended up in this forum after I had tried to contact parallels support which was a bad idea and waste of time. The incompetence was surprising to say the least.
Can you guys help me to the get a better understanding of this use case and if it’s even possible to get rid off the fan noise issue with a m3 max WITHOUT running the low power mode all the time. It bothers me to know that I am spending so much money to end up with overpowered machine I have to run in a throttled mode.
I would have picked the M3 pro but the 6P cores are simply not ok. Is it true that the M2 Max will run cooler and more silent for the same tasks? Will the 8P cores of the M2 Max be enough or better go for the 10P cores and the m3 max?
I mean some retail dealers asking 3800 euro for the 12c/38c m2 while offering the m3 14c/30c for 3700 Euro. Or just wait for the M4 end of this year hoping the pro versions will have 8P cores and more Bandwidth again?
It’s so annoying how apple handled this generation with their decision also with this fingerprint magnet color.
Some general questions:
1) Does parallels utilize performance or efficiency cores for those kind of use cases?
2) Do I have to take single core or multi core performance into account when looking at benchmarks?
3) understanding the physics behind power one would assume that more powerful cpus would always drain more watts for the same tasks by nature? Which would always lead to higher temps and more fan activities? That’s why in the past I have been buying i5 cpus even in MacBook Pros during the intel days. I hope I am not fundamentally wrong with my assumptions.
Last edited:
If I were you I'd get a Max, not because of benchmarks but because of RAM. Nothing you do sounds like it needs a particularly fast CPU or particularly many CPU cores. I would (and did) get 64GB so that it will keep a while, though less might be acceptable. With 3 VMs 48GB gives you 12GB per system.
Just a reminder... You'll have to run the Arm version of Windows 11. There is an x86/x64 emulator, but not every application is compatible, and there will be a performance hit compared to running the apps natively on a 64-bit PC.
They're power limited based on the testing I've done. The M1 Max/M2 Max also had the same issue. It's been widely misrepresented in some Youtube reviews of the systems. The 14" models are capped around 30watts but can burst higher where the 16" is closer about 60 watts. The lower power cap is why the 14" gets hit especially hard in mixed work loads compared to the 16". High Power mode in the 14" M3 max variant has helped narrow this gap somewhat but it still is there.
Last edited:
I can see "low-power" mode throttling multi-core functionality - especially when you know you don't need it. But why throttle single core performance too? One would always want fast single core power, right?
because it helps save energy and when you use the single core it overclocks it to 4 GHz, absorbing a lot of watts... so it also cuts the overboost of the single core
I have been experimenting with Low Power Mode on my 14 inch M3 Max and I think it's excellent except for the screen switching from 120Hz to 60Hz. If I could turn on Pro-Motion with lower power on the CPU/GPU it would be great.
Overall though, after a few months of ownership I can't help but be a bit disappointed with how fast the M3 Max can suck down the battery in the 14 inch chassis - with a few unruly Chrome tabs you can drain it in a couple of hours. My 14 inch M1 Pro in the same situation can hang on for an hour or more extra, despite the processor being on a less efficient node and having a slightly smaller batter.
Overall though, after a few months of ownership I can't help but be a bit disappointed with how fast the M3 Max can suck down the battery in the 14 inch chassis - with a few unruly Chrome tabs you can drain it in a couple of hours. My 14 inch M1 Pro in the same situation can hang on for an hour or more extra, despite the processor being on a less efficient node and having a slightly smaller batter.
I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I have coconutBattery set up to show the watt draw in my menu bar and it's a great little tool to get a quick view of power consumption. On my M1 Air, I generally see 2-3 watts power draw at 50% screen brightness. It'll spike up to like 8-12 watts when I'm on a zoom with the brightness up, and I can see the battery time remaining estimate drop accordingly. (By comparison, my old Intel i5 Air would pull upward of 10-15 watts all the time almost no matter what I did, so its battery life was crap.)
I've futzed around with low power mode on the M1 and haven't seen it have much effect on the watt draw.
I believe an alternative way to tackle the throttling is to cap the max power to 40-50w. There used to be a tool which I was using with the Intel Macs but not sure if it works with the new arm based ones. I am on a m1 13 mbp due to the size and tempted to go for the 14 mbp. I was close to order the m3 pro with 36gb RAM which I need, but at this config the price is very close to the m3 max 14/30 version. By the way the M2 Max has dropped in price lately and is close to the m3 pro 18gb version. If the battery performance at low power mode is the same as the m3 pro I would get it tomorrow but I have not seen any tests comparing any of the above.
Can you borrow one and try it? Do you know someone with either a Pro or a Max that you could try running a bunch of VMs on? It sounds like a good workflow for a Pro with 36 Gb of RAM, but I don't actually know that. If you tried a Pro and discovered that it was generally up against CPU and/or RAM pressure, that's a good argument for a Max. If you tried a Max and discovered that it was using 24 GB of RAM and always had a bunch of unloaded cores, that's a good argument for a Pro.
Worst comes to worst, buy your best guess and test it thoroughly within the return period (this is a good argument for buying from Apple or some other retailer with a generous return policy). It's not abusing the return policy if you think you're right and are intending to keep it, but aren't sure. $10 spent on iStat Menus is probably a worthwhile investment to see what it's doing in real time...
I totally agree with you about LP and the refresh rate. I really wish you could still get 120Hz with the LP mode (or if it was an option it'd be even better)!
I stopped using Chrome a while back when they made their changes to privacy and ad-blocking. I used to do web app development and used Chrome almost exclusively but I'm very disappointed in Google/Chrome nowadays.
A side-benefit was my battery life literally quadrupled, perhaps even more. I just use Safari now -- there are lots of perks with being able to pickup instantly with what I was browsing on my phone on my Mac.
You can also do it with Chrome to see the pages you browsed on your iPhone, iPad, etc