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buggybear

macrumors member
Feb 24, 2005
43
0
mactel2007 said:
i couldnt get anything meaningful out of those links. just a bunch of badly written guff... and the 2nd page wouldnt load.
just tell us the prices and performance! summarize!

Oh well ... badly written guff ... this depends on taste, right? I was not saying you should go there for an extraordinary reading experience ;)

Seriously ... all pages load well. And summarizing stuff which is already rather compact (page 2 always has a simple table with benchmark results) is just not the way to go ;)

For the lazy ones, the closing paragraph in the lastest article says:

http://www.animationartist.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=32951-1 said:
Summing up, the Boxx 7400 workstation is the fastest computer we’ve seen yet, Mac or PC. It’s relatively quiet, it has 1394 on the motherboard with ports on the front and back, it’s well-designed, and includes the first-rate support of Boxx Technologies. It’s an excellent machine which can rapidly crunch through any content creation chores you throw at it. There is that pesky matter of price, though. At $5,669, the Boxx 7400 is over $1000 more expensive than the best Mac G5, and over $2000 more expensive than the dual core single-processor Intel box from Dell we tested a week ago. So your best overall value would be with the dual core Dell machine, which still beats the Mac even with one hand (chip) tied behind its back and costs $1100 less. If you care about looks, style and cachet, have a superiority complex, and don’t mind buying into a platform that’s slower and already obsolete, go with the Mac G5. But if you care about the “rough-and-tumble of real-world performance” and can afford it, the Boxx 7400 should be your first choice. Highly recommended. 9.7 out of 10 stars.
 

GuyClinch

macrumors member
Jun 6, 2005
36
0
Wow..

Wow I checked out those comparo articles.

I thought that the G5 was actually better at graphics benchmarks. However the AMD offering just kills it. I KNOW that in games Macs get smoked but the same goes for graphics.

I should have read your comparo earlier. That's a good posting. It's amazing how powerful the Steve Job's distortion field is. Even I was under the impression that PCs were inferior for heavy graphics work.

My point was that the PC world has had very good interger performance and has felt "snappy" in the non-graphics world. I think that some of those AMD64x2 processors would perform quite well in the graphics tests. It's a same they always test Opteron's. Those processors are overpriced and don't provide much improvement compared to their to the AMD64 line IMHO - except in server functions.

That's not the best line of the article though. I thought it was this one:

For those of us who are unaffected by the Steve Jobs “Reality Distortion Field,” this drubbing that the Mac took on these benchmarks should lay to rest, for now, the question of which platform is faster for content creation. In fact, here at the Midwest Test Facility the fastest Mac has never beaten the fastest PC in any of our overall head-to-head testing

You mac guys have been getting used and abused by Jobs for years now. It's amazing what you guys have been posting about the G5 chip. It's worse then I thought.

Pete
 

Flynnstone

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2003
1,438
96
Cold beer land
OS X -> great OS. XP?

G5 Power Mac -> good hardware.
P4/Opteron with good mother board with a real video card -> good hardware.

G4 -> Ok.
Celeron , motherboard with integrated video -> crap!

Just my opinion !
 

BillHarrison

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2003
332
0
There is a disc image of the Conference Macs available now. Requires a Darwin 8 install to work. VERY limited in hardware support etc, for example, IDE drives are basically unsupported.

I am guessing posting a link here would be taboo, not recommending this to anyone, however at this point its more a "look what I can do" thing than actually stealing anything, as its basically useless at the moment.
 

Omen88

macrumors regular
Jan 8, 2002
177
0
Flanders (Belgium)
BillHarrison said:
There is a disc image of the Conference Macs available now. Requires a Darwin 8 install to work. VERY limited in hardware support etc, for example, IDE drives are basically unsupported.

I am guessing posting a link here would be taboo, not recommending this to anyone, however at this point its more a "look what I can do" thing than actually stealing anything, as its basically useless at the moment.

Yep it seems the real deal, I checked the Kerberos app's executable with lipo and it stated: Architectures in the fat file: Kerberos are: i386 ppc

Sad thing is I don't have access to my PC till saturday... My hopes aren't very high of it getting to work though.
 

Mord

macrumors G4
Aug 24, 2003
10,091
23
UK
i cant try darwin on my pc atm (f**king generic ram) but it would not work on QEMU, it stated it had IDE issues, dose anyone know if it'll work on a sata drive? and i'm guessing SCSI would be worse than IDE.
 

MagnusDredd

macrumors member
Jun 17, 2003
81
0
Phoenix, AZ USA
Probably no point in even posting this....

The benchmarks you have referred to are generated using After Effects and Cinebench. After Effects does video processing, and Cinebench is a synthetic test that approximates performance. After Effects is one application of many used in video processing. Video processing is not all graphics programs.

As far as processing speed I could show what numbers a G5 generates running RC5 vs. a P4, check the listing of keyrates here: http://www.orange.co.jp/~masaki/rc572/ratee.php

I could use that to conclude that for number crunching I'd be better off using a single G5 machine than 2 or 3 P4 machines. I could also use Seti@home to conclude the opposite. But it's only one application....

Likewise I could show how much faster the P4 was than the Athlon 64 doing MP3 encoding using Lame and conclude that for audio encoding P4s were faster, or the opposite by only looking at Ogg Vorbis encoding.

This is why when you see good gaming machine reviews, they benchmark the systems using 5 to 10 different games. If the above reviewer wanted to prove anything about Graphics Apps in general, I should have seen Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave, Maya, Media 100, Avid Studio, and quite a bit more. Likewise had they wanted to they could have picked a starting product and an ending product and done it using different programs on differing systems but achieving the exact same result (which is generally not done).

All that a benchmark proves is that a given machine can run that application at a given speed. This is why I always discounted Apple's famous Photoshop bake-offs and why I never paid much attention to any benchmark other than gaming. The reason for this is that machines are so damned fast these days that I rarely spend much time waiting on anything that's not dependent on network speed. Most of the time taken on the machine is taken up using the interface in order to get the machine to do something. If it takes 20 steps on one system, and 5 on another.....

Games are the exception for me for the most part. My gaming experience is actually affected fairly strenuously by the machine I'm using. If I'm playing America's Army, the higher the resolution I run the game at the easier it is to snipe the enemy. Also if the game gets really choppy during a firefight, I cannot fire at, out-maneuver, or turn to face my enemy before they take me down. This affects my experience in playing the game.

For other things.... I wrote a shell script that created over 18,000 folders, assigned permissions and ownership, and made them out in a specified hierarchy giving every student and teacher on campus a set of folders to manage assignments and other files. It took about 2 hours to generate the script and 5 minutes to run on a dual 1Ghz G4. Faster machines would not have helped, except for the SASI (student info database) server which is a dual Xeon with loads of RAM. I created a 100+ Meg Photoshop file with about 800 layers and took it to Kinkos for printing. Attempted to open on the "fastest" machine in the store (a 2Ghz P4). After waiting for 15 minutes I force quit Photoshop and walked over to a Mac (1Ghz) and had it open in 5 minutes to the amazement of the staff. This is so subjective as to be stupid. It does not prove anything other than perhaps that Kinko's Windows machines are all screwed up. PDFs are viewable on my old 733Mhz G4 using Preview as my 1733Mhz Athlon using Acrobat. I'd probably use preview on the Athlon except it doesn't exist. I play Dawn of War on Windows because there's no Mac port. I also play Doom 3 on the Athlon because the Mac version requires a much faster machine than the G4.

I'm interested in CPUs and discussions of such, however when it degrades into a battle of male insecurity with little regard to constructive discussion, I begin to lose interest.
 

alep85

macrumors regular
Jun 4, 2005
131
0
WWDC image.....wow!

So does this support the Geforce4 MX card and a Serial ATA or IDE drive? I'm interested, I have an iMac G5, but the thought of just being able to SEE OS X on my HP 873n Media Center PC would rock.

UPDATE: Upon research, my HDD is a 5400 rpm Ultra DMA drive.
 

greatdevourer

macrumors 68000
Aug 5, 2005
1,996
0
Erased Citizen said:
um guys theres no such thing as "OSX for intel" steve said that OSX itself was processor independent therefore theres no special version for intel, you could run any OSX on pc probably, people just havent been aware of the possibility. there may be builds for developers but no special intel only version.
No, I don't think you've understood what Steve said. Linux is multiplatform, but you can't take an IA-64 disk and expect it to run in a PPC machine. It's not like that. When people say "it's processor independant", it means that it can be compiled for any platform, not that the OS is one binary fits all. Sure, Universal Binary, but you can't really do that to an OS.

-jimi- said:
I need a high performance workstation and I need Linux and Windows on it but I love to use OS X. Leaked OS X would be the only choice for me until Apple releases the new Intel PowerMacs. I cannot afford an extra $6000 workstation just for being able to use OS X.
Woa, where'd this $6000 figure come from?

Omen88 said:
I am not saying that G5 is slow, but for things besides video editing and heavy altivec related processing, it is slower than the Pentiums and AMDs
Yes (sort of ish - my 450Mhz Cube boots (fully, including logging in) into Tiger in under 15 seconds, and I've yet to see a PC under 3Ghz to do that.), but Apple's main market are those who do heavy processing (graphics, video, audio and science)

Willie Sippel said:
That, and the fact that Apple will take a step backward and go 32bit again...
This is what really bugs me about the Intel move. As said previously, 64-bit was a massive leap, and its effects were felt greatly by Apple's main market, being heavy-processing jobs. So why take 2 steps back to a 32-bit archetcture that can't eat huges chunks of data the way PowerPC can
 

MBHockey

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2003
4,050
297
Connecticut
greatdevourer said:
No, I don't think you've understood what Steve said. Linux is multiplatform, but you can't take an IA-64 disk and expect it to run in a PPC machine. It's not like that. When people say "it's processor independant", it means that it can be compiled for any platform, not that the OS is one binary fits all. Sure, Universal Binary, but you can't really do that to an OS.

Woa, where'd this $6000 figure come from?

Yes (sort of ish - my 450Mhz Cube boots (fully, including logging in) into Tiger in under 15 seconds, and I've yet to see a PC under 3Ghz to do that.), but Apple's main market are those who do heavy processing (graphics, video, audio and science)

This is what really bugs me about the Intel move. As said previously, 64-bit was a massive leap, and its effects were felt greatly by Apple's main market, being heavy-processing jobs. So why take 2 steps back to a 32-bit archetcture that can't eat huges chunks of data the way PowerPC can

By time time the PowerMacs are transitioned to intel...intel will also be 64 bit.

Do you ever use apps that use more than 4GB of memory each? If not, you can't tell the difference between 32 and 64 bit.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
0
greatdevourer said:
No, I don't think you've understood what Steve said. Linux is multiplatform, but you can't take an IA-64 disk and expect it to run in a PPC machine. It's not like that. When people say "it's processor independant", it means that it can be compiled for any platform, not that the OS is one binary fits all. Sure, Universal Binary, but you can't really do that to an OS.

Woa, where'd this $6000 figure come from?

It's easy to reach that figure when purchasing a Mac. Chances are he wants the high end Intel Power Mac. Along with a 23" Cinema Display.
 

Mord

macrumors G4
Aug 24, 2003
10,091
23
UK
it's acctually been leaked by xISO, and the DRM has been striped, just because it's hardware on the legit mactel dosent mean you cant strip it in the software to not look for the hardware in a run of the mill pc.

however it's tricky to run, there are IDE problems and you need an SSE2 cpu (p4 or athlon64), and there is talk of a 1GB ram requirement.
 

greatdevourer

macrumors 68000
Aug 5, 2005
1,996
0
MBHockey said:
By time time the PowerMacs are transitioned to intel...intel will also be 64 bit.

Do you ever use apps that use more than 4GB of memory each? If not, you can't tell the difference between 32 and 64 bit.
It does make a difference (eg, compressing DVDs to H.264 at full resolution) for really data intesive stuff
 

Mord

macrumors G4
Aug 24, 2003
10,091
23
UK
no this is not gnaa work they used to xISO name to make it look legit, this actually real
 

~loserman~

macrumors 6502a
mactel2007 said:
im reminded of the time many years ago now, that i bought BeOS 4.5 for my p.c
it was cute and nice, but there werent many apps for it. so i lost interest very fast.
without apps on it, any os is just a "so what?" once you've got it up and running.
this was true when they released beos 5 for free.. all the geekier minded p.c users loaded it up, and promptly got bored.

This is the same way Windows users feel about Macs.
Lack of Software titles.
I have been using a Mac as my only computer for 2.5 years and it has been the hardest thing for me to get used to.
When I started using a Mac only I really missed using the plethera of software titles that I was used to running. Die hard Mac users always say that there are good Mac programs for every thing and Macs are used for getting work done. I think both statements false.
A Mac is a decent computing experience but they have a serious lack of software for many of the things I used a computer for.
Fortunately for me I'm in management now and don't do any real work any more. :D

Also Xcode is absolutely the worst Development tool I have ever seen or used and is inferior to Visual Studio in every way.
Heck it isn't hardly any better than just using vi. No wonder there are so few Apple developers.
 

MBHockey

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2003
4,050
297
Connecticut
~loserman~ said:
This is the same way Windows users feel about Macs.
Lack of Software titles.
I have been using a Mac as my only computer for 2.5 years and it has been the hardest thing for me to get used to.
When I started using a Mac only I really missed using the plethera of software titles that I was used to running. Die hard Mac users always say that there are good Mac programs for every thing and Macs are used for getting work done. I think both statements false.
A Mac is a decent computing experience but they have a serious lack of software for many of the things I used a computer for.
Fortunately for me I'm in management now and don't do any real work any more. :D

Also Xcode is absolutely the worst Development tool I have ever seen or used and is inferior to Visual Studio in every way.
Heck it isn't hardly any better than just using vi. No wonder there are so few Apple developers.

Could you give examples of what you found you couldn't do on a Mac?
 

Mord

macrumors G4
Aug 24, 2003
10,091
23
UK
here is the situation:

two copys were leaked, both real but one had the DRM on and one did not, to run the DRM striped version you need 1GB ram and an SSE3 cpu (recent P4 or venice sandiego athlon) and a heck of allot of luck to get it working, i know one person who has got it working and i was just kicked off the IRC channel for talking about it too much all the torrents have been taken off the trackers so only people who snatched it while they could have these files, and most of them are DRM'd versions which are useless (the Phoenix one) now when i have this running for myself tomorrow (need to borrow a dvd drive and some ram) i'll post a video from cold boot with no networking with one uncut shot.
 

iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
8,634
0
Reanimation_LP said:
YES. IT HAS BEEN LEAKED.

The full damn DVD was leaked about a week or so ago.
That's pretty well known. It's also pretty well known that the "cracked" image that people have been downloading is a GNAA production.
And people have gotten past the TPM, though its slow and unstable.
Well, one person claims to have it working and others have reported that they are unable to duplicate the results.
 

chatin

macrumors 6502a
May 27, 2005
930
598
Fact: OSX is loose on the street.

Someone should put this on the page 1 rumor site because it is 100% fact. I've used a Sony Vaio running Tiger 10.4.1.

Everything worked on a 2 year old Sony Vaio, but no updates.

I was able to go to the quicktime trailer site and play Tom Cruise's Imax Space Trailer thing. Then, I got discusted (not by TC), and told the hacker to please delete that.

:mad: :(
 

MBHockey

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2003
4,050
297
Connecticut
Yeah i've got it up and running on a old Toshiba laptop with a 2.6 GHz celeron CPU. Runs ok, but it's only sse2 enabled so no itunes, or dvd player, and it makes safari crash often.

it boots up in half the time my 1GHz PB running Tiger does, and the intel mac port of Deer Park is good.
 

Rod Rod

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2003
2,180
6
Las Vegas, NV
Squidly said:
Interesting article here from Wired.com.

Hackers have found a way to bypass a chip designed to prevent the Mac OS from running on non-Apple PCs, which are often cheaper than Macs.
The Wired article is a bit off-base, saying that a $300 PC running OS X is faster than any G4 or G5.

edit: I re-read it and I suppose if the writer meant that to be in the future-tense, it's not that off . . . I suppose 5 years from now it's conceivable.
 
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