macOS 13 Ventura on Unsupported Macs Thread

[redheeler]

I’m all for keeping old machines running as long as possible, I have a G3 tower that I still play with from time to time, but there must also come a point where the OEM is no longer required to support something. I just don’t know where that point is.

I always thought the cutoff should be 9 years for base operating system support, and another two years of security updates. That seems like a long time, but the problem with Apple is that support is all or nothing. It isn’t like other OEMs where new operating systems can be installed regardless of driver support from the manufacturer.

Thankfully the patcher developers have found ways around this and have done an amazing job, but I always feel uneasy relying on third parties just to use the operating system my Mac is capable of using.

 

[ylluminate]

@headlessmike I think the problem is that the industry should facilitate older systems being able to do essential things and to remain running in a functional state where at which point a user was satisfied (sure this needs to be nailed down) at some point when they were using them. It's fine that the OEM not be required to update the OS for that device, so to speak and at some "reasonable" point, however they should be required to keep software able to be functional for basic usage. It may be that the real culprits here are some of the bigger orgs that are driving the browser march and SSL effort that is forcing the complete abandonment of older hardware that still should work.

Perhaps they should be required to pay a "support" tax to infrastructural tools such as web browsers that would be earmarked for legacy support implementation and maintenance?

 

[ylluminate]

@redheeler 9 years would not work for many cases. Take for example the MacPro5,1. It runs circles around many computers that are just 3-5 years old yet still when equipped with a pair of Xeon X5690s and a newer GPU. OCLP allows us to still keep several of these massive investments (at their purchase) still in operation - and rightly so. Apple really should not have abandoned such machines. Consider systems that are purchased now with a maxed out Pro being over $50k USD. If an org has a fleet of these then they have strong grounds for a serious lawsuit against Apple if Apple stops Intel instruction set support even within the next 5-10 years.

Yes, we shouldn't have to rely on third party patching to get us to that point. It is simply absurd to have to travel this road.

 

[steverae]

Well - just tried installing 13 on my 13,2 iMac running 12.5 beta with OCLP and it downloaded but like others, rebooted into internet recovery.

Luckily I was able to force it back to the default drive so still have 12.5 running. Will wait and see what happens over the next few days.

My other machines all running 12.5 beta 2 are a MBP 2015 and a Mac Pro 5,1 with ATI Radeon 7950 GPU.

TBF I'm quite happy with Monterey, nothing in Ventura really excited me if im honest, not like universal control did lol. -I use that all the time - its brlliant.

anyway -its after midnight here in the UK so good night all and look forward to the next few days

 

[redheeler]

@redheeler 9 years would not work for many cases. Take for example the MacPro5,1. It runs circles around many computers that are just 3-5 years old yet still when equipped with a pair of Xeon X5690s and a newer GPU. OCLP allows us to still keep several of these massive investments (at their purchase) still in operation - and rightly so. Apple really should not have abandoned such machines. Consider systems that are purchased now with a maxed out Pro being over $50k USD. If an org has a fleet of these then they have strong grounds for a serious lawsuit against Apple if Apple stops Intel instruction set support even within the next 5-10 years.

Yes, we shouldn't have to rely on third party patching to get us to that point. It is simply absurd to have to travel this road.

When Apple stops Intel support, that’ll be a sad day in the history of the Mac. Apple is dropping a hint with Ventura that it’s rushing to do so ASAP. Looking at the exclusion of the 2013 Mac Pro and 2016 MacBook Pro I can see it moving up from 2027 to as soon as 2025. Installing Linux or Windows may become imperative to keep using our Intel Macs, and that should be an embarrassment for Apple but they’ll invent a way to justify it somehow.

 

[ylluminate]

@steverae the only thing I'm interested and excited about is potential kernel improvements (especially since it's been shown now that Linux on Apple Silicon is faster in benchmarks than macOS) and improvements in various core functionality areas such as multi-display issues that have been present for the last few releases.

Many have acknowledged that Apple basically allowed mobile to drive their focus for the past 12 years and that has been devastating to those of us who want to do real work on macOS. I was sickened by the fluff presentation today since it really shows that they are trying to cater to users that really are not using systems heavily for development and heavy multitasking.

I routinely have 20+ apps open and have had arguments with Apple engineers before about how I "abuse" their operating system by not closing apps. They seem to not care about users who actually have workloads that entail multiple jobs and multiple responsibilities and specialties and desire to cater to vertical workers vs horizontal / broad spectrum workers.

I work on other Windows, Linux and even FreeBSD systems routinely, but my main workstation is always Apple / macOS since it's the only thing that has everything I need in one package in a sane mix (and no, WSL2 really still doesn't cut it on Windows 10+).

 

[0xCUBE]

Well, folks, it seems like all pre-Haswell computers can't even boot into Ventura as of yet. Also no unsupported Macs' GPUs have hardware acceleration, including dGPUs on newer models. My own 2015 15" doesn't have acceleration, although it did boot just fine as it's a Haswell machine. We'll see what tomorrow brings

 

[BeatCrazy]

yep 10bit HEVC is first introduced with Kaby Lake, I guess that's the Nr.1 Reason why all machines before Kaby Lake where dropped

I don't think HEVC support is the reason. It's more like Apple rarely (in actually only one example Late 2013 trash can Mac Pro) supports more than 8 versions of macOS.

So if your Mac got its 7 or 8 versions of macOS, you're basically done for.

 

[Minato1990]

So my fully maxed out 2015 MBP could potentially run it?

 

[redheeler]

Well, folks, it seems like all pre-Haswell computers can't even boot into Ventura as of yet. Also no unsupported Macs' GPUs have hardware acceleration, including dGPUs on newer models. My own 2015 15" doesn't have acceleration, although it did boot just fine as it's a Haswell machine. We'll see what tomorrow brings

What technique are you using, a simple boot.plist mod? Did you KEXT transplant?

I would be surprised if KEXT transplant doesn’t bring back acceleration.

 

[Person132]

So I reinstalled Ventura on an SSD I had lying around t rule out any issues with my NVME drive, and it seems to install it fine, but when it goes to reboot after the install is complete, the apple logo pops up and the bar starts to move, but then it just reboots. I tried going into verbose mode but there is no hint as to what is making it reboot. I'll keep investigating it though.

 

[BeatCrazy]

So my fully maxed out 2015 MBP could potentially run it?

Likely. Using the OCLP tool, my 2009 27" iMac runs Monterey with zero issues.

 

[binarysmurf]

I played with OpenCore to install Monterey on a 2013 21.5" iMac. It works well enough to be usable but not 100% without issues.

Not to denigrate what you're saying, but I'm running Monterey on a 27" 2012 iMac via OCLP and it's flawless. 😳

Edit: Having said that, it's a top spec system.

 

[Cognizant.]

So my fully maxed out 2015 MBP could potentially run it?

I've used patched versions of macOS for years on older hardware and they always ran fine. There's no reason for these new requirements except for Apple wanting to focus on less hardware ... and of course making money through planned obsolescence. This is one of the more ridiculous cut offs that I've seen, but I think it's in large part due to Apple wanting to cut Intel out of their lineup for good.

 

[redheeler]

Not to denigrate what you're saying, but I'm running Monterey on a 27" 2012 iMac via OCLP and it's flawless. 😳

Edit: Having said that, it's a top spec system.

No issues with performance, but some sleep/wake weirdness as I mentioned in a different comment. Someone suggested to update OpenCore which I may try. But don’t get me wrong, overall it works pretty well!

 

[duvelhedz]

Going to attempt the Ventura upgrade on my iMac 12,2 on a separate partition and see how it goes.

 

[Person132]

Going to attempt the Ventura upgrade on my iMac 12,2 on a separate partition and see how it goes.`

That will be pretty interesting if it works as my 2010 mac pro installs, and then reboots as soon as it gets to the apple logo.

 

[Jack Neill]

I played with OpenCore to install Monterey on a 2013 21.5" iMac. It works well enough to be usable but not 100% without issues.

I have 12.4 running perfectly on mine. What issues are you having?

 

[GregJohn]

My 2017 MacBook Pro just barely made it 💀

 

[TheRevenantFromDoom2]

Is it complicated to upgrade OS versions from an already patched version of Monterey running through OCLP?

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Looks like my (just) 5 year old MBA (2017) won't be able to run Ventura. Making the planned obsolescence envelope even tighter, Apple? Not even a hobbled version, as is the case with Monterey now.

It has more todo with Encoding Support than "PLANED OBSOLESCE"

 

[JCsHands2]

Is it complicated to upgrade OS versions from an already patched version of Monterey running through OCLP?

It's still unknown. So far you can't just run the upgrade, your system will either not boot or boot to Internet Recovery.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

I've used patched versions of macOS for years on older hardware and they always ran fine. There's no reason for these new requirements except for Apple wanting to focus on less hardware ... and of course making money through planned obsolescence. This is one of the more ridiculous cut offs that I've seen, but I think it's in large part due to Apple wanting to cut Intel out of their lineup for good.

Oh yea everytime some like 5 year old hardware gets dropped u cry planned obsolescence LOL. If u cry about it why don't u go to Microsoft for Windows or Linux Devices This thread is to Brainstorm ideas about how to make it run on unsupported hardware and not about listening to your crying about "Planned Obsolesce". Apple is supporting thair Products way longer than any other Manufacturer does. So maybe cry about other manufacturers "Planned Obsolesce".

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Going to attempt the Ventura upgrade on my iMac 12,2 on a separate partition and see how it goes.

Maybe u should Blackout your Serial Number. Just a Tip

 

[BrooklynMan]

I've tried to upgrade my MacBook Pro 13,3 with OCLP-- just hitting a wall with Recovery Mode, even after resetting NVRAM. Any suggestions?