Macrumors , an Apple fan site has become the most toxic Apple community I have seen and almost anti Apple

[I7guy]

You’d be surprised how many Apple folks wade these, and similar, waters.

Oh I’m sure folks from many smartphone platforms are on MR and other sites, but it seems clear that they don’t go scavenging for requirements. If they did iOS would look way different. Side loading would have already been allowed. Downgrading to any version would already be a possibility. And so on.

 

[turbineseaplane]

it seems clear that they don’t go scavenging for requirements. If they did iOS would look way different. Side loading would have already been allowed. Downgrading to any version would already be a possibility. And so on.

It's a good point - they could learn a lot around here!

Hopefully one day they pay a bit more attention 😉

 

[ThomasJL]

I use Apple computers and smartphones because they are relatively more user-friendly in comparison to alternatives like Windows computers are Android smartphones. The height of Apple products' user friendliness was during the time Steve Jobs was CEO. Today, while Apple still makes the most user-friendly computers and smartphones, the level of user-friendliness has decreased dramatically under the clueless leadership by Tim Cook.

Many Apple fans today defend Cook because they believe the illogical notion that Apple making astronomical record amounts of money under Cook's leadership is the same thing as maintaining the high level of user-friendliness that existed in products released under Jobs's leadership.

 

[zakarhino]

My family have been using Apple products for probably 30-40 years. I've been using them since the moment I could figure out how to use a computer. You know sometimes "negativity" is actually a yearning for improvements and changes we would love to see from a platform and company we've invested so much time and money into. We spend YEARS of our lives in these things. That's not an exaggeration either, do the math. Combine your professional and personal time spent using Apple devices daily and multiply that by 10-20 years or whatever. The number will shock you, perhaps even cause an existential crisis LOL. Not to mention 5-6 figures of $$$ on Apple gear over the course of a lifetime lol.

I'm of the opinion consumers should be demanding of any company they're doing business with. I don't want to make excuses for Apple, that's pathetic. Seems like a lot of people on here just want to enjoy a positive reinforcement circle to feel good about their purchase or because they feel like they owe Apple some defense. Nah, I'd much prefer to see constant pressure on Apple to push their craft.

Maybe you have a problem with, just as a random example, the few Android users on here that have a religious devotion to proving Android is the better platform. Fine, but I don't think the majority of people complaining are in that camp. We like Apple.

On the other hand, I can only guess, Apple does not get it's requirements from fan sites such as this, as influential as MacRumors is on the internet.

They literally do because emails between Apple execs (such as Tim Cook with Schiller or Federighi) have clearly shown they have in depth debates over what customers and journalists are saying online or in emails sent directly to the execs. If they're not browsing MR Forum, they're reading emails from the same forum users that openly state they've sent emails to Tim about something they've complained about on the forum.

Tim Cook: "I wake up at 4am and spend the first hour of my day reading customer emails" I believe him, the court docs prove it.

 

[I7guy]

My family have been using Apple products for probably 30-40 years. I've been using them since the moment I could figure out how to use a computer. You know sometimes "negativity" is actually a yearning for improvements and changes we would love to see from a platform and company we've invested so much time and money into. We spend YEARS of our lives in these things. That's not an exaggeration either, do the math. Combine your professional and personal time spent using Apple devices daily and multiply that by 10-20 years or whatever. The number will shock you, perhaps even cause an existential crisis LOL. Not to mention 5-6 figures of $$$ on Apple gear over the course of a lifetime lol.

I'm of the opinion consumers should be demanding of any company they're doing business with. I don't want to make excuses for Apple, that's pathetic. Seems like a lot of people on here just want to enjoy a positive reinforcement circle to feel good about their purchase or because they feel like they owe Apple some defense. Nah, I'd much prefer to see constant pressure on Apple to push their craft.

Maybe you have a problem with, just as a random example, the few Android users on here that have a religious devotion to proving Android is the better platform. Fine, but I don't think the majority of people complaining are in that camp. We like Apple.



They literally do because emails between Apple execs (such as Tim Cook with Schiller or Federighi) have clearly shown they have in depth debates over what customers and journalists are saying online or in emails sent directly to the execs. If they're not browsing MR Forum, they're reading emails from the same forum users that openly state they've sent emails to Tim about something they've complained about on the forum.

Tim Cook: "I wake up at 4am and spend the first hour of my day reading customer emails" I believe him, the court docs prove it.

I explained my rational, imo. I don’t say Tim Cook didn’t read emails, I said they didn’t get requirements from fan sites. Now that doesn’t mean they don’t use social media to gauge how a particular update may go based on feedback or lack thereof.

 

[zakarhino]

I explained my rational, imo. I don’t say Tim Cook didn’t read emails, I said they didn’t get requirements from fan sites. Now that doesn’t mean they don’t use social media to gauge how a particular update may go based on feedback or lack thereof.

Ah sorry I missed your follow up. Yeah that's fair.

 

[I7guy]

[…]

Many Apple fans today defend Cook because they believe the illogical notion that Apple making astronomical record amounts of money under Cook's leadership is the same thing as maintaining the high level of user-friendliness that existed in products released under Jobs's leadership.

Maybe many do. You’re going to tell them they are thinking about it wrong?

 

[russell_314]

Wait, I don’t really understand

Are you implying that if it weren’t for money concerns, they should only allow posts here that are in support of and/or positive about Apple?

I didn’t say or imply that. Also there’s a difference between posts that have an educated critique and “Apple sucks” posts just to get a reaction.

 

[VisceralRealist]

I think sometimes people conflate being an Apple supporter with being positive, but sometimes those types of posts are anything but. Telling someone with the mildest critique of iPhone design or iOS to "go get an Android phone if you hate Apple so much" isn't an example of "positivity". Lol.I do think there are some users here who are only here to talk about how much they used to like Apple and its products, and they have nothing but negativity to contribute, and I'm not defending them. But I also see "supporters" engage in plenty of negative, insulting behavior toward those they regard as "haters", so "negativity" isn't only on one group here.

I think ultimately what would benefit everyone is if you see a post you disagree with, if you see "haters" or "fanboys" posting, remind yourself that you don't have to react.

 

[Plutonius]

It’s getting a bit ridiculous. Half the people I would ask , why are you even on an Apple forum if you down even own Apple products or don’t like them at all

It seems to me that once the PRSI forum was ended, the other forums got much worse.

We really need the PRSI forum back to concentrate all the toxic posting in one place .

 

[ixxx69]

I empathize with the OP. I was just thinking about this as I skimmed through threads where folks were looking for assistance. Thread after thread was invaded by folks complaining about Apple that was not in any way constructive to the OP's questions.

It's why MR forums become less and less a place of "knowledge" as the years go by. They're now primarily known as a place to Apple flame war and Apple bash. And the front page comments are all that is.

I have plenty of criticisms of Apple. There's nothing wrong with starting a thread to praise/criticize Apple (though why the same people find it interesting to "debate" the same topics over and over again is beyond me). But keep it to the threads where that is the topic.

I actually just popped into the feedback forum to see if anyone else had recently noticed this ever-increasing trend, and am not surprised to see many of the exact same users I always see making the exact same defenses of the toxicity that permeates this site. To the OP, you're being gaslit.

It seems to me that once the PRSI forum was ended, the other forums got much worse.

We really need the PRSI forum back to concentrate all the toxic posting in one place .

Maybe that has contributed to it, maybe not. But this falls entirely on the way MR's chooses to run their site.

We do not need MR to contribute to the ills of the world by platforming the hateful and harmful "opinions" that were commonly expressed on the PRSI forum. There's already enough of that on the internet. It's understandable that MR chose not to use their limited resources on PRSI, and appreciated that they therefore recognized that PRSI needed to be closed.

 

[klspahr]

Some people enjoy “yanking someone’s chain” to see if they can get them to bark.

The “ignore” strategy mentioned above seems like the best response.

 

[CalMin]

Firstly, thank you for raising this up OP.

I love this site. I'm a paid contributor and I spend too much time here, but I have to agree with this post. It seems the mods aren't always able to keep up or manage some of the vitriol that pops up from time to time.

I rarely use the report button (perhaps only 2 or 3 times in over at least a 10-year period) but when I have used it, it's not because someone disagrees with me or makes a point that I don't like, it's been because someone has been disrespectful to others in the thread, or is simply childishly dissenting rather than having an adult conversation or debate about something we care about. There are a lot of low quality comments that are clearly just intended to spur conflict etc.. A great example of this is the hate posted whenever there's a link to sale price with affiliate links.

The best thing about the site is the IGNORE button. I have a few members on that list and I'm constantly vindicated by it because it seems the mods to little to moderate the behaviors.

Still - like I said to begin with, I still love the site and most of the community, but unless they start doing a better job of cleaning up the trolls, it will be less and less fun to visit.

 

[annk]

Firstly, thank you for raising this up OP.

I love this site. I'm a paid contributor and I spend too much time here, but I have to agree with this post. It seems the mods aren't always able to keep up or manage some of the vitriol that pops up from time to time.

I rarely use the report button (perhaps only 2 or 3 times in over at least a 10-year period) but when I have used it, it's not because someone disagrees with me or makes a point that I don't like, it's been because someone has been disrespectful to others in the thread, or is simply childishly dissenting rather than having an adult conversation or debate about something we care about. There are a lot of low quality comments that are clearly just intended to spur conflict etc.. A great example of this is the hate posted whenever there's a link to sale price with affiliate links.

The best thing about the site is the IGNORE button. I have a few members on that list and I'm constantly vindicated by it because it seems the mods to little to moderate the behaviors.

Still - like I said to begin with, I still love the site and most of the community, but unless they start doing a better job of cleaning up the trolls, it will be less and less fun to visit.

It's great that you don't use the report button simply because someone disagrees with you or you don't like what's being said. Unfortunately, this does happen. We are luckily experienced in weeding those reports out.

I would encourage you and all users to use the report button whenever you see something you think breaks a rule, even if you're not sure. It's part of how this community works. You don't even have to write anything in the message field if you don't have time - we'll see if there's a violation there. This makes it easier for us to get to problems as quickly as possible and to get to as many problems as possible. With tens of thousands of posts made daily, it really does help us quite a bit.

Finally, I think that while reporting is important because it helps us take action, ignoring a user after the report button is hit is essential to getting rid of trolls. If a troll doesn't get any response, the fun goes out of it and that person will go elsewhere. I know that it can be tempting to reply, but simply acting as if the post isn't there is very effective. Just go on with the discussion as if the trolling comment were invisible.

 

[Ctrlos]

I like and use Apple products every day. I think their hardware design is second to none, the build quality is brilliant and they last for decades.

But I also know that Tim Cook's business model has been based on removing value from the lowest price devices to upsell people to the more expensive ones and the 'french cheese' effect of making people question what is wrong with lower priced products. They have also displayed a worrying level of totalitarian paranoia about losing their grip on the app store rather than just providing developers with a better deal and hoping they will see it.

 

[I7guy]

I like and use Apple products every day. I think their hardware design is second to none, the build quality is brilliant and they last for decades.

But I also know that Tim Cook's business model has been based on removing value from the lowest price devices to upsell people to the more expensive ones and the 'french cheese' effect of making people question what is wrong with lower priced products. They have also displayed a worrying level of totalitarian paranoia about losing their grip on the app store rather than just providing developers with a better deal and hoping they will see it.

The above may be true to some extent (and as far as the App Store imo apple is justified to retain its tight hold—but thats neither here nor there) as to why some people decide not to converse in a civil manner.

 

[laz232]

It’s getting a bit ridiculous. Half the people I would ask , why are you even on an Apple forum if you down even own Apple products or don’t like them at all

Over the past few years - under Tim Cook's leadership, Apple has lost focus on many of the aspects that are important for me and my business.
The move away from Intel means that virtualisation to run design software (I do electronic hardware design for protection of life, infrastructure etc) has become almost impossible.

I wish Apple kept a focus on computers instead of becoming a lifestyle company -
I don't want or need Apple to provide financial services (credit cards), fitness lifestyles, a car, VR headsets, gimmicks such as the "Touch Bar" or 5000 dollar monitors and half-baked "Pro" computers (2013 onwards).

 

[ixxx69]

I like and use Apple products every day. I think their hardware design is second to none, the build quality is brilliant and they last for decades.

But I also know that Tim Cook's business model has been based on removing value from the lowest price devices to upsell people to the more expensive ones and the 'french cheese' effect of making people question what is wrong with lower priced products. They have also displayed a worrying level of totalitarian paranoia about losing their grip on the app store rather than just providing developers with a better deal and hoping they will see it.

Over the past few years - under Tim Cook's leadership, Apple has lost focus on many of the aspects that are important for me and my business.
The move away from Intel means that virtualisation to run design software (I do electronic hardware design for protection of life, infrastructure etc) has become almost impossible.

I wish Apple kept a focus on computers instead of becoming a lifestyle company -
I don't want or need Apple to provide financial services (credit cards), fitness lifestyles, a car, VR headsets, gimmicks such as the "Touch Bar" or 5000 dollar monitors and half-baked "Pro" computers (2013 onwards).

Wow, as if on cue. These are textbook examples of the kind of comments I'm referring to that seemingly invade every thread these days.

If you want to start a thread on your issues with product value or Tim Cook's leadership, or whatever, go ahead. But it's really made this forum a bummer that nearly every time someone starts a thread on just about any other topic, there's a bunch of these kind of comments to wade through.

 

[I7guy]

Wow, as if on cue. These are textbook examples of the kind of comments I'm referring to that seemingly invade every thread these days.

If you want to start a thread on your issues with product value or Tim Cook's leadership, or whatever, go ahead. But it's really made this forum a bummer that nearly every time someone starts a thread on just about any other topic, there's a bunch of these kind of comments to wade through.

Those comments are really off-topic to this thread as we are discussing the perception of the MacRumors site and not discussing ones' views on Apples' business trajectory.

 

[Ctrlos]

Wow, as if on cue. These are textbook examples of the kind of comments I'm referring to that seemingly invade every thread these days.

If you want to start a thread on your issues with product value or Tim Cook's leadership, or whatever, go ahead. But it's really made this forum a bummer that nearly every time someone starts a thread on just about any other topic, there's a bunch of these kind of comments to wade through.

There isn’t really though. Ask for help in the other forums and you’ll normally get a polite answer

If anything the worst comments tend to be any thread involving the EU or Android.

 

[smirking]

I've been visiting this site on and off for 20 years (ouch). The negativity is nothing new. It ebbs and flows too.

Sometimes it's nothing but storm clouds here. That gets to be a bit much.

At other times it's nothing but rainbows and unicorns. That gets to be a bit much too.

 

[Stiksi]

Wow, as if on cue. These are textbook examples of the kind of comments I'm referring to that seemingly invade every thread these days.

If you want to start a thread on your issues with product value or Tim Cook's leadership, or whatever, go ahead. But it's really made this forum a bummer that nearly every time someone starts a thread on just about any other topic, there's a bunch of these kind of comments to wade through.

Those comments are really off-topic to this thread as we are discussing the perception of the MacRumors site and not discussing ones' views on Apples' business trajectory.

If you want to talk about how some people are leaving negative comments, it’s a pretty safe bet some will try to explain WHY they are leaving negative comments. Trying to narrow the conversation down so the other side doesn’t get room to maneuver and actually explain the base of their argument is not helpful.

I agree, the forum is toxic, but not excessively and I would say it’s 50:50 between fanboy-hater camps and people who just want to overpolice the discussion.

Apple is a $4 trillion company, it’s going to be controversial just because being that big, it affects everyone’s life to some degree and if you’re into tech, to a huge degree. It’s just not the niche company it was in the early 2000’s and that means the no. 1 forum discussing Apple will be a lively place.

 

[I7guy]

If you want to talk about how some people are leaving negative comments, it’s a pretty safe bet some will try to explain WHY they are leaving negative comments. Trying to narrow the conversation down so the other side doesn’t get room to maneuver and actually explain the base of their argument is not helpful.

The justification of why people post negative opinions and make this a ”toxic” forum doesn’t really help that particular quality of life overall.

I agree, the forum is toxic, but not excessively and I would say it’s 50:50 between fanboy-hater camps and people who just want to overpolice the discussion.

Apple is a $4 trillion company, it’s going to be controversial just because being that big, it affects everyone’s life to some degree and if you’re into tech, to a huge degree. It’s just not the niche company it was in the early 2000’s and that means the no. 1 forum discussing Apple will be a lively place.

 

[Stiksi]

The justification of why people post negative opinions and make this a ”toxic” forum doesn’t really help that particular quality of life overall.

Those were not toxic comments. Negative comments are not toxic simply because you disagree with them or even that you would rather not see them at all. Your signature seems ironic in this occasion.

Toxic comments are the ones that try to take others down. These comments were just negative opinions on Apple that even had decent arguments.

 

[minik]

Ever since some of the old timers went dark, the quality of comments seem to go down a lot.