Macrumors , an Apple fan site has become the most toxic Apple community I have seen and almost anti Apple

[ixxx69]

If you want to talk about how some people are leaving negative comments, it’s a pretty safe bet some will try to explain WHY they are leaving negative comments. Trying to narrow the conversation down so the other side doesn’t get room to maneuver and actually explain the base of their argument is not helpful...

Completely misses the point.

Again, no one needs to justify why they have criticisms of Apple or the opportunity to express them.

The issue is inserting those criticisms into every topic thread, every news article. Those commenters above just couldn't help themselves... and the forum is increasing full of them.

The reason those type of threads and comments now generate the majority of forum activity is because MR's has cultivated it. Forums are self-selecting.

This thread isn't going to change anything. MR's is run the way they want to run it, and they're apparently fine with the way the forums are and and the direction they are headed. The OP and others like myself are simply voicing that we're not particularly happy about it. We can always show ourselves the door, there will always be plenty of folks to fill the void.

 

[rin67630]

Is telling people, who e.g. wrote "I left Windows in 2005 and never returned again, macOS is so much superior",
what they have missed since in the world outside, is that leaving a negative comment?

 

[Madhatter32]

Ever since some of the old timers went dark, the quality of comments seem to go down a lot.

I am still here, thank you very much, but the quality of my comments have certainly declined.

 

[dumastudetto]

We’re all owners in this family of incredible products. We should come together and celebrate all the things that make Apple innovative and true.

 

[Stiksi]

Completely misses the point.

Again, no one needs to justify why they have criticisms of Apple or the opportunity to express them.

The issue is inserting those criticisms into every topic thread, every news article. Those commenters above just couldn't help themselves... and the forum is increasing full of them.

The reason those type of threads and comments now generate the majority of forum activity is because MR's has cultivated it. Forums are self-selecting.

This thread isn't going to change anything. MR's is run the way they want to run it, and they're apparently fine with the way the forums are and and the direction they are headed. The OP and others like myself are simply voicing that we're not particularly happy about it. We can always show ourselves the door, there will always be plenty of folks to fill the void.

No, that’s not it. Those comments were on topic in this thread. Just because you are tired of seeing them elsewhere does not mean that it’s ok to single them out here and say that these people are the problem. You personalized the whole discussion to two commenters. I don’t think you realized but that is an ad hominem.

As for the rest of it, that’s just reality. Macrumors isn’t fostering anything, they are doing a good job keeping this forum fairly civil while not overpolicing it so that it kills free discussion. Apple is too big to have a ”self-selecting” major discussion forum. Those are for minor players.

Sure the forum is somewhat toxic but so is every other forum that is this big, especially tech related. Saying that it’s ”those guys, not us” is not helpful in my opinion.

 

[I7guy]

No, that’s not it. Those comments were on topic in this thread. Just because you are tired of seeing them elsewhere does not mean that it’s ok to single them out here and say that these people are the problem. You personalized the whole discussion to two commenters. I don’t think you realized but that is an ad hominem.

As for the rest of it, that’s just reality. Macrumors isn’t fostering anything, they are doing a good job keeping this forum fairly civil while not overpolicing it so that it kills free discussion. Apple is too big to have a ”self-selecting” major discussion forum. Those are for minor players.

Sure the forum is somewhat toxic but so is every other forum that is this big, especially tech related. Saying that it’s ”those guys, not us” is not helpful in my opinion.

The comments were off topic to the thread title of discussing the “toxic” environment here at Macrumors, imo. Those were opinions of apples trajectory not related to the thread.

But ah yes, irony at work as the tone of this, imo, fits in with the thread title.

 

[j26]

I joined this forum pre-iPhones existence, and it was a great site for banter among Apple enthusiasts which could be positive or negative. Of course there were some that went overboard, but in the main, disagreements were respectful, and criticism was accepted

Since the iPhone launch, there has been a gradual descent into polarisation and vitriol. It gradually got so bad that it actually became one thing that turned me away from Apple products - because I didn't want to be associated with such blind fanboyism and childish behaviour.

I'm back now (both with Apple and with Macrumors), and while things are still polarised here, I can see there are a lot of reasonable heads knocking about. I just filter out the loons without ignoring, but I can say the site seems far less toxic to me than it was, say 10 years ago.

 

[G5isAlive]

It seems to me that once the PRSI forum was ended, the other forums got much worse.

We really need the PRSI forum back to concentrate all the toxic posting in one place .

The same thought occurred to me, that an awful lot of the swamp to wade through in people talking about societal issues. For example, rather than discuss the technical merits of the Apple Vision Pro we got people that say silly things like "the device is a failure because its going to lead us into a dystopian future of isolationism". Just how is that a technical comment and not a societal one? Yet the moderators watch on as people post random images of young starlets as examples of people too cool for AVP (though the starlets never commented lol). how is that a technical comment?

But as someone else said, clicks fund the site, and so the trolls are allowed to go on under the banner of constructive criticism lol.

I think what some of us miss are the days that people tried to be helpful. You came to MR to learn about what changes might be coming, not to debate the merits, but get a glimpse of the future. Then there were forums where people would exchange information on how to mod graphics boards to use in Hackintoshes. No one debated the philosophy of how Hackintoshes fit into the world, mostly they just told people how to build them.

In short MR used to be a community where we all had already made the decision on owning a Mac, we just wanted to learn how to use it better. tricks and new ideas.

And so when you get threads that are 80% rambling about the evils of Apple or the stupidity of those that use the product (often without the person even trying it), it's hard to see the constructive criticism through the uninformed opinions. And that's what people are complaining about.

 

[Stiksi]

The comments were off topic to the thread title of discussing the “toxic” environment here at Macrumors, imo. Those were opinions of apples trajectory not related to the thread.

But ah yes, irony at work as the tone of this, imo, fits in with the thread title.

There are people on this thread blaming the toxicity only on people who post ”negative comments” about Apple. Those two commenters were defending their decisions to post well argued negative comments. If responding to accusations with actual founded arguments is ”off-topic”, then the definition has changed since I last checked.

Of course, the toxicity is equally the blame of excessive negativity for the sake of negativity, aggressively defensive responses to it and the opinion polices who condemn everyone who doesn’t conform to their narrow view of what this massive forum should be.

Why not just mash that ignore button until the forum looks like what you want and let the rest of us be? You can’t force a community this large to fit your definition of it without making it a niche site again.

If you feel that this is a toxic tone, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s frustrating to try to have a conversation with someone who thinks that their side of the conversation is the only valid viewpoint. That will inevitably bleed into the tone, but I don’t think I’ve insulted anyone or been disrespectful in my responses.

 

[Chuckeee]

To me, it seems that the most toxic of the toxic comes from just a few prolific posters or from new posters that appear and then disappear (trolls). I find liberal use of the ignore feature just makes things much more enjoyable. They are still out there, but if I don’t see them, I don’t care.

 

[za9ra22]

It's no more toxic than anywhere else, other than perhaps because it's a tribal interest, discussion tends to be more polarized - and over time, pretty much all forms of discourse via the internet has become rather more toxic in general.

Given the site makes at least a sizable proportion of its revenue via clicks, I'd guess the moderators are somewhat hindered in curtailing off-topic or adversarial content, and when you add the increasing number of people who seem unable to tell the difference between their own opinion and a fact, there's bound to be some conflict.

 

[zorinlynx]

I have a love-hate relationship with Apple. I love their products, but also hate that they're so controlling about everything. Look at the EU debacle; they could have taken this opportunity to finally open up the platform and give us true sideloading, but instead they created this convoluted process for alternate app stores and still want to charge their Apple tax, and only did it in the EU. The bare minimum to comply, basically.

Just because you like something doesn't mean you can't criticize it. If anything, Apple fans should be more critical because we want the stuff we buy to be as excellent as possible. I still buy my Apple products regularly but I sure as hell am going to criticize when it's warranted. Blind love is worse than no love at all.

 

[turbineseaplane]

ignoring a user after the report button is hit is essential to getting rid of trolls.

Is there any chance the ignored users limit of 1,000 people could get raised higher?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Toxic ≠ Comment I don’t like

Toxic also ≠ Negative tone to a comment

 

[sracer]

I have a love-hate relationship with Apple. I love their products, but also hate that they're so controlling about everything. Look at the EU debacle; they could have taken this opportunity to finally open up the platform and give us true sideloading, but instead they created this convoluted process for alternate app stores and still want to charge their Apple tax, and only did it in the EU. The bare minimum to comply, basically.

Just because you like something doesn't mean you can't criticize it. If anything, Apple fans should be more critical because we want the stuff we buy to be as excellent as possible. I still buy my Apple products regularly but I sure as hell am going to criticize when it's warranted. Blind love is worse than no love at all.

I agree. And for some, it goes beyond having a "blind love" for Apple and their products and services. It is their personal identity... so any criticism of Apple is taken as a personal criticism. I think it is odd, but that's the reality, so I'm aware of that potential when I comment on Apple.

 

[turbineseaplane]

for some, it goes beyond having a "blind love" for Apple and their products and services. It is their personal identity... so any criticism of Apple is taken as a personal criticism

People really need to get a little less attached to consumer goods.

These are just products.

To all these companies, even Apple, we are all just wallets to be opened and extracted from.
That’s the extent of any “relationship”

 

[I7guy]

I have a love-hate relationship with Apple. I love their products, but also hate that they're so controlling about everything. Look at the EU debacle; they could have taken this opportunity to finally open up the platform and give us true sideloading, but instead they created this convoluted process for alternate app stores and still want to charge their Apple tax, and only did it in the EU. The bare minimum to comply, basically.

Just because you like something doesn't mean you can't criticize it. If anything, Apple fans should be more critical because we want the stuff we buy to be as excellent as possible. I still buy my Apple products regularly but I sure as hell am going to criticize when it's warranted. Blind love is worse than no love at all.

Criticize how? Like these examples, below?
- I hate apple
- Tom Crook is greedy
- a monkey can run apple

There are certainly enough of them to go around. But you mean constructive critiques such as the above?

 

[I7guy]

Toxic ≠ Comment I don’t like

Toxic also ≠ Negative tone to a comment

Toxic also = toxic.

 

[Flowstates]

There has been an awful uptick of hot-takes and antagonistic behaviour, regardless of the underlying opinion defended.

People seem to gravitate around the forum nowadays to vent and not to partake in rumoring.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

There has been an awful uptick of hot-takes and antagonistic behaviour, regardless of the underlying opinion defended.

People seem to gravitate around the forum nowadays to vent and not to partake in rumoring.

Agreed. Including some people in this very thread who will not be named.

Some people need a better hobby.

 

[JapanApple]

Having left chat boards over 20-plus years ago, people just couldn't get along causing unpleasant experiences. So, years later I decided to come back to Mac Rumors thinking I was ready. People haven't changed, but my mindset has, I don't deal with senseless chatter. People can voice their opinions but respect others' remarks as well. Not everyone agrees with each other's opinions.

 

[annk]

Is there any chance the ignored users limit of 1,000 people could get raised higher?

This is a question for arn. You can ask it in Site and Forum Feedback

 

[VisceralRealist]

I agree. And for some, it goes beyond having a "blind love" for Apple and their products and services. It is their personal identity... so any criticism of Apple is taken as a personal criticism. I think it is odd, but that's the reality, so I'm aware of that potential when I comment on Apple.

Few will acknowledge this, but it goes a long way toward explaining a lot of the conflict in these forums and the issues around "toxicity". It's certainly not limited to Apple; we could be talking about a politician or a musical genre or a clothing brand, but in the end it's the same: these things are a part of who we are. Say something negative about them and you are saying something negative about us. So we feel personally attacked when the products/companies we like are criticized or maligned. I think taking a step back is always a wise decision in these situations.

 

[bousozoku]

I am still here, thank you very much, but the quality of my comments have certainly declined.

Who are they calling old timers? I've only been here since Mac OS X 10.2, I'm thinking.

It's difficult to always be positive when the experience isn't always positive. I find it difficult not to be realistic about the condition of any operating system development.

 

[rin67630]

Few will acknowledge this, but it goes a long way toward explaining a lot of the conflict in these forums and the issues around "toxicity". It's certainly not limited to Apple; we could be talking about a politician or a musical genre or a clothing brand, but in the end it's the same: these things are a part of who we are. Say something negative about them and you are saying something negative about us. So we feel personally attacked when the products/companies we like are criticized or maligned. I think taking a step back is always a wise decision in these situations.

You think it is better to not interact with those living in their bubble?
Not telling them, that there is also a life going on outside?