The issue that they have with running an LLM is how much ram it takes. You are better off in the cloud for those things. I think it will be many more years before we see a ChatGPT level AI running on local hardware.![]()
Apple will begin updating its Mac lineup with M4 chips in late 2024, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. The M4 chip will be focused on improving performance for artificial intelligence capabilities.
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Last year, Apple introduced the M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max chips all at once in October, so it's possible we could see the M4 lineup come during the same time frame. Gurman says that the entire Mac lineup is slated to get the M4 across late 2024 and early 2025.
The iMac, low-end 14-inch MacBook Pro, high-end 14-inch MacBook Pro, 16-inch MacBook Pro, and Mac mini machines will be updated with M4 chips first, followed by the 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Air models in spring 2025, the Mac Studio in mid-2025, and the Mac Pro later in 2025.
Apple is said to be nearing production of the M4 processor, and it is expected to come in at least three main varieties. Chips are codenamed Donan for the low-end, Brava for the mid-tier, and Hidra for the top-end. The Donan chip will be used in the entry-level MacBook Pro, the MacBook Air machines, and the low-end Mac mini, and the Brava chips will be used in the higher-end MacBook Pro and the higher-end Mac mini.
The Hidra chip is designed for the Mac Pro, which suggests it is an "Ultra" or "Extreme" tier chip. As for the Mac Studio, Apple is testing versions with an unreleased M3-era chip and a variation of the M4 Brava processor that would presumably be higher tier than the M4 Pro and M4 Max "Brava" chips.
M4 versions of the Mac desktops could support as much as 512GB Unified Memory, which would be a marked jump over the current 192GB limit.
The M4 chips will be built on the same 3-nanometer process as the M3 chips, but Apple supplier TSMC will likely use an improved version of the 3nm process for boosts in performance and power efficiency. Apple also plans to add a much improved Neural Engine that has an increased number of cores for AI tasks.
Article Link: Macs to Get AI-Focused M4 Chips Starting in Late 2024
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Macs to Get AI-Focused M4 Chips Starting in Late 2024
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nVidia pretty much as a lock on AI right now. running a 512x512 generation with 200% upscale on Stable Diffusion with my AMD 6950 and nVidia 4070 takes 4.3 seconds. On my new M3 Pro MBP with 36GB RAM, the exact same generation (same prompt, hash, model, etc.) it takes 8m43s. Apple has a long way to go until it even matches current consumer generations speeds.
Ultra should be first so I hope it’s true. Pros need MORE NOW. My grandma doesn’t need more than an M1. So why give her an M4.
Every product in existence has some AI component now. I’m just SLIGHTLY exaggerating here. I have so many applications and they all have AI tools now or on the roadmap and it’s ridiculous.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
As MaxTech speculates, whether Ultra should be first or not, if it is most profitable to Apple, it seems like it will become first in the order. And if base is least profitable, it seems it will roll out last. Dollars rule all at Apple Inc. these days, so I suspect they are right about this idea and that M4 Ultra will be first of M4 to launch, followed by MAX & PRO and then finally base M4.
Why? For the most tangible reason they offered: save Ultra until last and there is only a relatively small window of time to sell it before the new M++ MAX is available with benchmarks around or sometimes better than ULTRA. OR, roll it out first and the chip that will benchmark beat it will be the NEXT Ultra 1+ years later.
If Ultra is most profitable, Apple Inc would want most profitable transactions across the entire year instead of only in a short window between ULTRA and M++ MAX releases.
As they offered: why buy a M2 ULTRA MAC now... with M3 MAX benchmarks relatively impressive?
I'll guess Mac Pro with ULTRA first, then Studio and MBpros with MAX & PRO variants a few months later. Studio would launch with ULTRA and MAX as it does now... but ULTRA would having already been out for a while in the super-profitable Mac Pro.
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So go to display settings click show all resolutions and click the resolution one below the default. Problem solved.
Just hope they don't announce an M3 Ultra in the Studio only to start releasing M4 later the same year. Might be a good time for me to go back to the Mac Pro from the Studio. The current Studio makes the Pro relatively unneeded unless you are a major user of 3rd party cards and add ons (studio work etc.). But if there is not an extreme processor in the Pro and a slightly behind processor in the Studio... starting to separate the two again. Curious if there will be a Studio Pro that bridges the gap again as well. Guess we shall see in the coming months
Either way, still exciting to hear all the progress and ponder on the possibilities that will eventually drain the bank account once again! lol
I don’t believe that’s correct until Apple actually implements a fix. My understanding is that it is theoretically patchable in the M3, possibly with a performance hit, if certain functions are disabled.That "Unpatched Security Flaw" does not affect M3 users. [Confirmed by security team]. Only M1-M2 users.
GoFetch exploit can't be disabled on Apple's M1 and M2 chips
For now, cryptographic work should be run on slower Icestorm coreswww.theregister.com
Profits are based on sales of actual computers. No question that the biggest computer profit source are MacBook Pro sales (and those are even a small fraction of iPhone sales). Apple will always release their newest and best chips to promote MacBook sales first, specifically MacBook Pros with premium (Max, mid tier, or whatever they call it) processors. Although Apple tends to update a whole MacBook family at the same time, not just the highest end (all the MacBook Pro not just the 16” MxMax).
The concept that the 1st M4 computer will be an M4 Ultra or Extreme packaged in a desktop computer is nonsense
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I get your point and I get his speculation. I purchased Ultra only to find that the M++ MAX that followed not so longer after was pretty competitive. Lesson learned.
On the other hand, do as he speculated- that is, roll out Ultra first- and it will be a good while before MAX & PRO follow and longer still until base arrives. Ultra will be "king of the chips" until the next Ultra is released... unlike now, where it is king of Silicon only until next MAX... which has been < 6 months later so far. Ultra buyer then probably sees the superiority for maybe 3 months before the proposition to wait for the next MAX likely < 3 months away take over. If so, 3 months is a short window as King of the hill in the most expensive Mac.
If I was re-buying my ULTRA Mac, I would have purchased MAX instead... and won't buy ULTRA again unless it is meaningfully superior to the rest of the lineup... including the MAX that follows.
So we'll see.
On the other hand, do as he speculated- that is, roll out Ultra first- and it will be a good while before MAX & PRO follow and longer still until base arrives. Ultra will be "king of the chips" until the next Ultra is released... unlike now, where it is king of Silicon only until next MAX... which has been < 6 months later so far. Ultra buyer then probably sees the superiority for maybe 3 months before the proposition to wait for the next MAX likely < 3 months away take over. If so, 3 months is a short window as King of the hill in the most expensive Mac.
If I was re-buying my ULTRA Mac, I would have purchased MAX instead... and won't buy ULTRA again unless it is meaningfully superior to the rest of the lineup... including the MAX that follows.
So we'll see.
I feel we're a real point of parity where for the average user there isn't a benefit to jumping on the latest tech. It use to be you'd buy a PC and a year later it was completely obsolete, it'd run but not the newer things. I remember have a 25mhz cpu and my sister getting a 50mhz one. Now we all have chips that use no power and are several ghz. For the first time in a very long time I almost can't find a reason to upgrade anything, and I like having the best. I chose the M1 macbook 14pro because the screen and speakers are phenomenal. I travel for a living and I'm not some content creator. I simply wanted a good machine. Fantastic battery life, runs everything smooth, looks and sounds great. Even if it was a free swap I wouldn't change my m1 for a m3 there's simply no reason for 95% (making it up) people. The speakers are better here. So this M4 better do something life altering or it's relegated to the back burner.
Mac sales are the second lowest revenue generator for all of apple. Services are where it's at. Services pay almost double what the entire mac sales makes. Their goal is to put as many products in people's hands as they can. I get an iphone, sure, but what I also buy is applecare+ and $10/month just for cloud storage. Apple's bread and butter is what's sitting in their data centers and all the things you can't touch. I think Services is closer to $80 billion a year while macs (all of them from desktops down) is around 40 billion. The margins are even lower. A $1k macbook air smokes anything windows. They need the products to push the services.
Totally agree and I used to upgrade every year. Now only every 3 as I rarely feel like the hardware is the problem anymore as it used to be. Will be getting the M4 to replace my M1’s.
Here is what you and most here aren't grasping. Apple has been developing AI in-house for the past decade. Rarely has Apple come out first on any technology unless it was completely developed in-house, and when it comes to industry wide products that change the course of the next decade they always hang back for 2-4 years while evolving their plans and cross-platform solutions.
When Apple comes out with their plans it will be more than what people are dismissing and in areas Nvidia has no foothold nor will they ever get a foothold in.
Nvidia had their Moonshot. That's Moon is starting to wane and they know it. Their valuation is not sustainable over the long haul and they know it.
They are nothing in the IoT world where hundreds of vendors are tuning their upcoming product lines with AI SoC across all network hops, across metropolitan to rural zones.
They don't know the consumer desktop, they don't have a shot to touch the iPhone/iPad/MacBook Air/Pro/Mini worlds, never mind the Mac Pro as they have no hardware in those tiers.
They are steadily falling behind in the Supercomputer space, they aren't a hub of Cloud Services like AWS, Azure, Oracle, IBM Watson, etc.
Apple will continue to diversify, extend and grow new vertical markets in the Smart Home, IoT markets, Streaming Media Services, etc. adding more to Apple One.
The Apple CarPlay research has barely scratched the surface.
CUDA is no longer the be all end all for Machine Learning, Diffusion, etc., and it's proprietary approach is why it will lose to AMD and others who are more and more investing in AMD gear each week.
Go try out TensorWave or LaminiAI.
Apple isn't betting their AI platform on the Client. Their heavy lifting will include the Cloud.
So you believe Mac service centers are currently being run using arrays of Mac Pro and Mac Studios with ultra chips? I agree that service centers are a critical profit center for Apple, I am just dubious that anyone runs a service center using banks of machines with MxUltra chips (although banks of Mac mini is something I’ve seen being used, I’m not sure what Apple uses)
Macs are often expensive; those with upgraded RAM and SSD get really expensive. Many owners use them for a lengthy product life, and since right now for many 'AI' seems more about a bit of future-proofing rather than serving an immediate need, I imagine many considering an M4 Mac purchase will be hoping to get a long life out of it.
In the context of other developments in the industry of late, I think the product would be more compelling if it includes Wifi 7. Granted, many people won't benefit much, but then again, many live in urban areas and/or have households with multiple gadgets using wifi (e.g.: computer, notebook, couple of iPhones, iPad, couple of Alexa-enabled smart light bulbs, maybe a wireless doorbell/video camera, etc...).
It would be nice to include Thunderbolt 5. I'm curious to see what kind of performance jump over TB3 and 4 a TB5 external SSD drive will offer.
If Face I.D. isn't feasible, okay, but it would be nice.
Since Wifi 7 and TB 5 both recently came out and will be 'the future' going forward at least a few (likely several) years, and over the course of your Mac's life you might get benefit out of one or both, it adds up to a more compelling package.
In the context of other developments in the industry of late, I think the product would be more compelling if it includes Wifi 7. Granted, many people won't benefit much, but then again, many live in urban areas and/or have households with multiple gadgets using wifi (e.g.: computer, notebook, couple of iPhones, iPad, couple of Alexa-enabled smart light bulbs, maybe a wireless doorbell/video camera, etc...).
It would be nice to include Thunderbolt 5. I'm curious to see what kind of performance jump over TB3 and 4 a TB5 external SSD drive will offer.
If Face I.D. isn't feasible, okay, but it would be nice.
Since Wifi 7 and TB 5 both recently came out and will be 'the future' going forward at least a few (likely several) years, and over the course of your Mac's life you might get benefit out of one or both, it adds up to a more compelling package.
The most likely scenario for AI On iOS is that some processes run locally on all devices. Some will run locally on the newest devices and will need to run on servers for older devices. Some processes will have to run on servers for all devices. The result will be that AI will be faster on some devices and slower on others.
Apple is unlikely to limit AI to only the newest hardware. It would aggravate too many of their customers for little benefit. AI is just too important a feature of the new iOS to restrict it unnecessarily.