You've got that right. All I'll ever touch on my Prius is the oil dip-stick, windshield washer fluid, and tire air pressure. Everything else is off-limits.
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Non-Retina Mid-2012 MacBook Pro Torn Apart
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You've got that right. All I'll ever touch on my Prius is the oil dip-stick, windshield washer fluid, and tire air pressure. Everything else is off-limits.
Raises hand. Anyway, I have been one of those that was annoyed with the non serviceability of this new machine. The fact is, the only upgradeable thing we are losing (well you since I don't have one) is the RAM. I have no doubt that in time, companies will make the proprietary SSD's for these machines, in fact I would bet they are already working on them now. Since I am in IT and have torn my laptops completely apart before (remember the horrendous thermal paste applications back in the day in the MBP's), the no serviceability does make me a bit sad but as has been said 99% would never dream of it. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/316736/ Seems to me that these new machines should come with a 3 year warranty off the bat since it is pretty much required. Also, I don't see why the retina screen can't be put on the 'old' MBP just the same?
Good luck running your laptop for 8 years. Upgrading the HDD and RAM will not make up for the fact that your fans will probably need to be replaced, your battery will be DONE and your processor will not be able to handle basic commands required.
perfect retort...
LOL!!!!! And bravo to the guy in Starbucks who snapped this picture.
LOL!!!!! And bravo to the guy in Starbucks who snapped this picture.
It's not that consumers don't prefer upgradable hardware, it's that Apple isn't giving them a choice and they still want the Mac. They're buying in spite of the fact that it's not upgradable , not because of it.
Personally, I think this is a disaster, especially in a machine labeled "Pro". If you buy a new computer every two years, it's probably not an issue, but I like to keep my machines much longer than that and one of the reasons I've always loved Apple is because most of their machines actually were still viable (with upgrades) after many years (as opposed to almost every PC I've ever had the misfortune of being forced to use).
I used my G4 tower for something like 7 years before giving it away and it still worked perfectly. It just wouldn't do heavy video editing and it was slow on very large Photoshop files.
My MacBook Pro laptop (from late 2008, I think) is great because I replaced the battery late last year and also replaced the hard disk with a faster model with more capacity. I was able to do this myself and I don't consider myself to be a tech.
Aside from productivity issues, there are security issues associated with delivering your machine to Apple for several days to fix/upgrade (if it will be possible at all on future machines, if the Retina machine is any indication.)
IMO, we're taking major steps backwards, all in the name of saving 1/4" of thickness. Not worth it, IMO. And I believe it will alienate certain segments of the user community. Do you reallky think developers will want a machine that they can't upgrade or switch storage/battery out of? Would it really have been so hard for Apple to keep the memory pluggable and place the SSD at the bottom of the machine beneath an access cover? They're supposed to be geniuses at engineering and they can't manage these basics?
They're supposed to be environmentally friendly, but we're now expected to toss these machines when we need more memory or storage space?
I find it pretty interesting that Apple uses almost the same parts in the MBP15'' as in the MBPR15''. There are different platform controller hubs (slightly higher part number in the MBP15''), the MBPR has a discrete Thunderbolt controller. For the rest, it's almost the same.
I looked at upping the RAM in my Mum's 13"MBP at the point of sale, they wanted £280 for 8GB in 2011. She managed fine with 4 GB for 8 months then I replaced it with £36 worth of 8 GB Corsair RAM. Simple choice but only if they let it be a choice. I intend to swap in a 256GB SSD when they become more affordable too. Apple wanted £800 for one when it was bought......
The 4 GB I took out of her MBP I sold on to a nice young lady for £20, including fitting it in her i5 iMac. She was overjoyed cos she had no clue where to put it.
Upgrades extend lifespan of good quality machinery like the stuff Apple make.
Soldering and gluing in easily replaceable items forces you away from such extensions of lifespan. I have a 3 year upgrade cycle on non upgradeable tech, my Mac Pro will still be busting its chops to do its job long after.
2008 - 2012 and still trucking on 2 RAM upgrades, 2 GFX card swaps and an extra 3 TB of storage, some of it SSD.
To use another silly car analogy, you don't replace the whole engine when your exhaust rots through, so why weld it to the block?
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Absolutely. This is my main gripe -- I want the Retina screen in the non-Retina body.
I have a 7 year old MBP that is still running just fine -- with memory upgraded and disk replaced. Strangely, the original battery is still OK, although I expect it to fail soon. PPC Firefox still works. Likewise 5 year old MacBook and MacBook Pro. New disks, memory maxed out, still work just fine.
nikhsub1 said:
Aren't the cables different?
Ha, PPC Firefox on a MBP.
I for one will not buy the retina MacbookPro, first of all it has less ports and second of all the non serviceable parts inside, the normal MacbookPro is much better IMHO.
PC tower users love to bang on about upgradeability but in actual fact what they are doing is buying a whole new computer every few years anyways.
This is how PC upgrading goes:
- Want a new processor with new architecture
- Ok so now I need a new motherboard
- Now I need faster Ram in more quantity to get the most out of my processor
- Ah damn my power supply isn't powerful enough, upgrade that too
- Hmm my Graphics card seems to be the bottleneck, I'll get a new one
It's like saying you used the same broom for 20 years but you changed the handle 15 times and the head 14 times...
This is how PC upgrading goes:
- Want a new processor with new architecture
- Ok so now I need a new motherboard
- Now I need faster Ram in more quantity to get the most out of my processor
- Ah damn my power supply isn't powerful enough, upgrade that too
- Hmm my Graphics card seems to be the bottleneck, I'll get a new one
It's like saying you used the same broom for 20 years but you changed the handle 15 times and the head 14 times...
They will be by people like me. I was forced into finding a couple of the 2.5 GHz 17" MacBook Pros as Apple no longer makes them. It would have been easier to just purchase them from Apple. This sudden demise of the 17" model shows that Apple does not feel bad in removing our choices.
It is so easy to change the hard drive & memory in these 17" laptops. The battery looks very easy also. There are only screws & a connector to remove & replace.
To me if Apple has plans to keep the 13" & 15" MacBook Pros in the lower dpi schemes they would have changed the unit to include 2 ThunderBolt ports. But then due to its already over smallness there is only room for one.
Apple is getting worse with their form over function rule. I want something big enough to do the job. The 17" model already requires me to carry a keyboard & trackball. The older style 15" would require a second screen to see what I used to see. The the hi dpi, so called retina, display will require external drives & adapters for everything, even the AC power connector. This makes this new so called super light MacBook Pro to weigh in at a greater weight than my so called too big & heavy to be a laptop 17" MacBook Pros.
But not being one of those 99% I do change mine at least every year. I formed a company policy 10-15 years ago that all hard drives must be removed from mainline service each 12 months. At that time the old drive becomes the top backup drive with the old main backup drive moving down the chain & so on until all of my drives are used up.
This policy has meant that we have had zero hard drive hard crashes. SSD drives are said to have a limited life span. It needs replacement even more than a hard drive does in a high write to usage.
I've changed out optical drives for a faster drive or to make room for a 2nd hard drive or a SSD. That is not really wasted space. What we need are more options for the space that the optical drive uses. A second SATA connector would be great. Thus a second HDD plus a 3rd SSD.
Memory is usually only done once. But memory can go bad. Also from time to time more memory can be added to MacBook Pros than Apple will sell. Like I have 16 GB of ram in my last 2 17" MacBook Pros. Something that Apple would not even offer us even at their normally higher prices. The same goes for the 2 year old Mac Pros.
Company requirements means that the 15" Retina MacBook Pro is not even allowed in the group of choices. This doesn't even have anything to do with the pentalope screwdriver needed to open the case.
MONEY does not talk, it doesn have a mouth.
You can talk - money doesn't talk.
It is not the responsibility of the corporations to do justice and make life easy for us. It is your responsibility to smarten up and know where your money is going.
All this justification for spending more up front for things "you don't really need now" is like taking out life insurance, I don't know when I might need a hip replacement or a lung machine, oh alright I'll check off this box and pay more every month just in case..
Money has to be earned, you think you're always going to stay young and invincible and always have money to throw away or something? That is what apple is banking on, they are no longer interested in the pro users with what they pulled from under all of us.
We give our money over so easily to essentially give more power to the corporations to do what ever they like while giving back only ant's turd in return. Some people can stomach that but I certainly wont.
It is just apple showing off, oh ya -- you guys think you have the ultrabook thing all figured out, BAMMMMM - check this out suckas - we'll take over that sector too nah nah nah boo boo - you get to eat poo ! ETC ETC ETC..
We're consumers caught in the middle of a school playground fight.
You can talk - money doesn't talk.
It is not the responsibility of the corporations to do justice and make life easy for us. It is your responsibility to smarten up and know where your money is going.
All this justification for spending more up front for things "you don't really need now" is like taking out life insurance, I don't know when I might need a hip replacement or a lung machine, oh alright I'll check off this box and pay more every month just in case..
Money has to be earned, you think you're always going to stay young and invincible and always have money to throw away or something? That is what apple is banking on, they are no longer interested in the pro users with what they pulled from under all of us.
We give our money over so easily to essentially give more power to the corporations to do what ever they like while giving back only ant's turd in return. Some people can stomach that but I certainly wont.
It is just apple showing off, oh ya -- you guys think you have the ultrabook thing all figured out, BAMMMMM - check this out suckas - we'll take over that sector too nah nah nah boo boo - you get to eat poo ! ETC ETC ETC..
We're consumers caught in the middle of a school playground fight.
And on this unit I CAN replace the battery and fans. The processor is a concern but I kept my G4 PowerBook for 7 years so there's a chance.
Imagine a new car which comes with non-replaceable batteries and spark plugs. Imagine if it had to be taken to the dealer to get repaired and they only offered you a 1 year warranty but of course you could fork out the extra dough for a basic 2 year extension to get the basic 3 year warranty. I can just see the anger of consumers if they made cars with non-replaceable parts to where one could not service their car outside of the original manufacturer's dealership. To make cars smaller and lighter for better fuel economy everything will now built into the main engine.
If I max out the RAM from the start I don't really need removable RAM.
With Applecare I have three years of no problems.
After it runs out, of course, and there's RAM trouble, you can't fix it yourself.
But, honestly, that's a risk I'm willing to take. I think RAM is very reliable nowadays, and my old iMac still has his original RAM.
With Applecare I have three years of no problems.
After it runs out, of course, and there's RAM trouble, you can't fix it yourself.
But, honestly, that's a risk I'm willing to take. I think RAM is very reliable nowadays, and my old iMac still has his original RAM.
What a pitty it doesnt have asymeytrical fans like the air and retina pro. I was hoping I could buy some that were in the new MBP (if it would have them) and replace the ones in mine.
Oh well, maybe I will upgrade
asymetrical fans upgrade would be a great kickstarter project!
Not if the maximum amount of RAM the chipset/CPU can handle is already offered. It wouldn't make sense. As an example, I have an AMD 990X chipset supporting 16GB RAM. If it would be sothered to my MB instead of in a slot, there would not be any difference. Even putting in more RAM with more capacity would result in only having 16GB addressable through chipset and CPU.
yes! the cost is not just the upfront cost, but the back side cost of more limited resell potential. because I have bought used machines specifically with the intent of upgrading them.
but times change. can't complain too much that Apple is in business to be in business. they have hit upon a strategy to reduce product lifetime cycles.
Battery will start to be useless in 3 years, the then current Mac OS version will not run at all on the machine in 4 years and resale value will be gone in 5 years... Just sell it on eBay after 3 years and get the next thing. Costs about the same, but you'll have a more current machine that can run modern things smoothly and with full battery life.
You could also upgrade to the newest thing as soon as it comes out, take a day to transfer all your stuff to the new one and see if everything works out as you want it and sell the old one on eBay before mainstream people notice it's not the current model. This way you spend about 300 bucks per year and always have the current Macbook Pro or iMac.
LOL! I did that with my 2000 G4 "Sawtooth" Mac: replaced the hard drive with a bigger one, added a second hard drive, increased the RAM, replaced the CD burner with a SuperDrive, upgraded the graphics card, upgraded the processor with an OWC unit, added a USB 2 card, and replaced the hard drives with bigger ones. I got 8 years out of it, and passed it to my dad, who got 2 more years out of it before the graphics card failed. In retrospect, it wouldn't have cost me any more to replace the computer at the 4-year mark, but it did spread the cost out (at any given time, it was easier to justify spending a couple hundred bucks on an upgrade, rather than a couple grand on a new computer), and I got a certain geeky satisfaction from doing my own upgrades and learning how my computer worked under the hood.
I was one of those people who kept holding out for a new mid-range tower from Apple, and when I finally accepted it wasn't going to happen, I got a new MBP in early 2008. I upgraded the RAM and the hard drive, and now I'm debating whether to extend its life for another year or two with an SSD drive, as it's finally starting to feel slow to me. So while I've historically been into upgrading hardware components (I've been into computers since the early 1980s, and I built and upgraded my own DOS and Windows PCs before I switched to Macs), I'm taking an approach of Zen-like acceptance to the likelihood that those days will soon be over.
Listen up nerds...
If you're planning to get this machine, it has plenty of RAM. If you're just wanting to reinforce your geekness with your non-techno friends, then just tell them you upgraded your machine and its ranked 1 out of 10 on ifixit's hardest to crack boxes. That will be even more impressive than having it laid out open on your mom's kitchen table.
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Great point Mr Crowbar. Take note nerds.
If you're planning to get this machine, it has plenty of RAM. If you're just wanting to reinforce your geekness with your non-techno friends, then just tell them you upgraded your machine and its ranked 1 out of 10 on ifixit's hardest to crack boxes. That will be even more impressive than having it laid out open on your mom's kitchen table.
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Great point Mr Crowbar. Take note nerds.