Well, it physically cannot be done by Apple today, not without making the battery life shorter or making the MBP bigger/heavier.
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Non-Retina Mid-2012 MacBook Pro Torn Apart
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For a 5 yr old machine I think that's fair. It's not a Pro either. Don't know if it's 13/15inch or what condition it's in. 400 bucks off the price of your next machine is still pretty good after 5 years.
In my case user upgradeability doesn't matter so much anymore
I don't mind the decrease in user "repairability/upgradeability" so much anymore and this is why:
The only changes I did to my 2008 unibody MacBook were the replacement of the optical drive for a OWC 1TB HDD kit to gain more storage and a scratch disk as I seldomly have to burn a CD/DVD. I also upgraded the RAM from the standard 4GB to 8GB.
Now my new Retina will be used exclusively for my photography work, the optical drive is gone which for me is great, we have now the option of Thunderbolt external storage, I can also now hook it up to a TB Display (which I couldn't with my 2008 MB).
The optimal setup for Lightroom and Photoshop max out at 6 cores since anything above for this software is a waste as it is not used by the software, With the new RMBP I am getting quad core and a flash drive which is lightning fast not to mention the 16GB of RAM, yeah 32GB would be awesome but in comparison to my 2008 setup this is like "achieving Nirvana" fast)
So the way I see it, for the next 3 or 4 years this machine will serve my needs, plus I'm sure 3rd party manufacturers will eventually come with options to upgrade the ram and the flash storage one way or another for the users than need so, users can always sell their current one and upgrade to the new ones.
I guess it just really comes down to what's best for each user and if it is profitable to have one of these new RMBP's depending on what is it going to be used for and what is your cycle of upgrading to a full new machine.
Who knows, maybe if business continues to do well next year when they launch the MBP's I can add one too
What are you guys primarily using your RMBP'S for?
Added Note, this is from OWC blog:
I don't mind the decrease in user "repairability/upgradeability" so much anymore and this is why:
The only changes I did to my 2008 unibody MacBook were the replacement of the optical drive for a OWC 1TB HDD kit to gain more storage and a scratch disk as I seldomly have to burn a CD/DVD. I also upgraded the RAM from the standard 4GB to 8GB.
Now my new Retina will be used exclusively for my photography work, the optical drive is gone which for me is great, we have now the option of Thunderbolt external storage, I can also now hook it up to a TB Display (which I couldn't with my 2008 MB).
The optimal setup for Lightroom and Photoshop max out at 6 cores since anything above for this software is a waste as it is not used by the software, With the new RMBP I am getting quad core and a flash drive which is lightning fast not to mention the 16GB of RAM, yeah 32GB would be awesome but in comparison to my 2008 setup this is like "achieving Nirvana" fast)
So the way I see it, for the next 3 or 4 years this machine will serve my needs, plus I'm sure 3rd party manufacturers will eventually come with options to upgrade the ram and the flash storage one way or another for the users than need so, users can always sell their current one and upgrade to the new ones.
I guess it just really comes down to what's best for each user and if it is profitable to have one of these new RMBP's depending on what is it going to be used for and what is your cycle of upgrading to a full new machine.
Who knows, maybe if business continues to do well next year when they launch the MBP's I can add one too
What are you guys primarily using your RMBP'S for?
Added Note, this is from OWC blog:
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Are you just looking for reasons to contradict me?
Yes, like you did in your reply. Soldered on RAM is a ripoff.
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I got a 2006 MacBook for free. $400 is fair.
Sell your Mac every 2 years for minimal $/year. And you get the newest Macs all the time. I did the research, and it costs about the same as buying an iMac and keeping it for 10 years. Imagine using a 2002 computer right now.
How does soldering the RAM make it a ripoff? Ever heard of saving costs? Did you read the space difference the RAM in-slot needs, not even talking about the resistance the electricity has with the extension... you gotta know a little about that before you argue that this is the reason. Also, how do you know it is actually cheaper to not use standard parts? Point is: we don't know all the reasons why it is dome this way. We know the form factor is way smaller. That's about it.
Edit: Showing you the difference soldered RAM (and other changes) can have on size, so yea, they "ripped off" a lot of weight and size, if that is what you mean:
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Soldered RAM is a non issue if they offer the maximum capacity the chipset supports in this configuration. And they do. That's precisely why a MBPR can be configured with 16 GB and the new MBP cannot.
Well spotted sir! If Nvidia's track record for too hot laptop GPUs in skinny MBP cases is anything to go by it may not be. Only time will tell.
All early and late 2011 MBP models run just fine with 16 GB non-Apple RAM.
Why shouldn't the new ones run as well?
I think the problem isn't what Apple could do, and I don't think there is much of a problem with the cost of Retina displays, but the problem is that the number of displays manufactured is far less than the number of Macs with Retina displays that Apple could sell. That is why you can only get a Retina display with an expensive computer, so Apple makes the most of the screens they get.
Once the number of displays available goes up, I can't see a reason why Retina displays wouldn't go into other cases. Of course you will want a bigger battery because Retina needs more power, which can be done the hard way by squeezing things closer together, or for the MBPs it can be done the easy way by removing the optical drive and filling the space with battery. MBAs might be more difficult.
Sure you do. For two reasons.
1) If you're going to buy a Mac, you're going to buy a Mac, no reason to look at other vendors. You need to compare within the Mac range.
2) Macs are already good value. Show me a Dell that's .7 inches thick, has a 15" Retina Display, gets 7 hours of battery, has a 256GB SSD, and has a quad core processor for less than $2199, then we'll talk.
I can see your point, but "Pro" grade stuff doesn't always mean you can tinker with it. Take a high end Canon camera designed for professionals. You can't open those things up and mess with them. Okay, so it's not a computer but, take a high end HP or Dell workstation, or laptop so the comparison is more accurate, aside from RAM and HD you can't upgrade them...if you want some upgradeability there is always the non-retina MPB.
can a 13" retina be done?
there is one thing that doesnt add up (or maybe it does)
some of us are talking about a 13" retina coming out in Q3-4 but how likely is it.
of course i m asking YOU macrumors as i dont want to tear a MBP...but how likely is it that a 13inch could cram the same amount of stuff as a 15"inch retina in a 13" body ....can it really be done? and more importantly can the new heat dissipation system handle it!
Thanks guys!
there is one thing that doesnt add up (or maybe it does)
some of us are talking about a 13" retina coming out in Q3-4 but how likely is it.
of course i m asking YOU macrumors as i dont want to tear a MBP...but how likely is it that a 13inch could cram the same amount of stuff as a 15"inch retina in a 13" body ....can it really be done? and more importantly can the new heat dissipation system handle it!
Thanks guys!
I know that they do, that was the point i was trying to make. In a standard MBP, Apple offers up to 8 GB configured in the store, and you can put 16 GB yourself. In the Retina MBP, Apple offers the 16 GB option in the store because you can't upgrade yourself. But this chipset configuration is already maxed out at 16 GB (same as C2D models are maxed out at 8 GB so you can't put 2x8GB sticks), so the soldered RAM is not an issue upgradewise.
Is it really worth the cost to replace all of the internals in your laptop just to have it around for 8 years? I understand upgrading memory and RAM, but at some point it makes sense to let a laptop go and replace it.
My laptop is more than 4 years old and I'm definitely feeling that it doesn't perform as well as when it was new (mainly it's not so portable anymore) so rather than tinkering around with it, I've decided to replace it.
Some people like to have their purchases last a long time. I know I do when I build a pc, and or buy a laptop. I want it to last at least 4 years minimum for a laptop, 5 for a desktop. I don't like the idea of non-user upgradeable parts. Especially when it comes to ram and HD's. I don't mind it for graphics cards and processors in laptops, but when I cannot upgrade the ram or HD myself I have a serious problem with that.
The kool aid drinkers again try to downplay the problem, because god nobody upgrades their RAM anymore!
The thing is having sealed RAM and proprietary SSD is fine on say the Air because that target market is much different then I'd imagine a $2100 power computer is.
It's not even really the RAM, the SSD is the biggest **** kicker. For one you are stuck at that 256GB option on the base model, you have to go up a model in order to increase it.
Not to mention SSD speeds get faster each year, in 2-3 years who knows how the current one will look compared to SSDs of that time, probably not very well.
Finally the repairability, a HD/SSD failure in most computers is a simple swap that might take 5-10 minutes for someone experienced. It's inherently more difficult and expensive thanks to proprietary parts and all the difficulty opening the case.
Horrible analogy with the Canon camera, there is nothing internally that an end user would want to replace in a DSLR.. this would be more like Canon sealed a CF card in a pro camera and didn't give you the option to replace or chose it. That's a better stupid ass analogy.
The thing is having sealed RAM and proprietary SSD is fine on say the Air because that target market is much different then I'd imagine a $2100 power computer is.
It's not even really the RAM, the SSD is the biggest **** kicker. For one you are stuck at that 256GB option on the base model, you have to go up a model in order to increase it.
Not to mention SSD speeds get faster each year, in 2-3 years who knows how the current one will look compared to SSDs of that time, probably not very well.
Finally the repairability, a HD/SSD failure in most computers is a simple swap that might take 5-10 minutes for someone experienced. It's inherently more difficult and expensive thanks to proprietary parts and all the difficulty opening the case.
Horrible analogy with the Canon camera, there is nothing internally that an end user would want to replace in a DSLR.. this would be more like Canon sealed a CF card in a pro camera and didn't give you the option to replace or chose it. That's a better stupid ass analogy.
h'okay. this is for the iFix it people. I am curious on one major thing.
Look here:Link
and then look here: Link
these are the logic boards of each one. the first one is obviously the non-retina display and the 2nd is the retina display. my biggest question is...
Will the retina display work in the non-retina display. it looks like it still uses the 30 or 40 pin display connector. judging by the photos, it looks rather close to comparison.
anyone else curious?
Look here:Link
and then look here: Link
these are the logic boards of each one. the first one is obviously the non-retina display and the 2nd is the retina display. my biggest question is...
Will the retina display work in the non-retina display. it looks like it still uses the 30 or 40 pin display connector. judging by the photos, it looks rather close to comparison.
anyone else curious?
I can't imagine a rMBP not lasting a minimum of 4 years with the specs that it has at the moment. I know it's not upgradable but it's pretty future-proof right out of the box and should last a minimum 4/5 years. Plus considering it has a lot of features that will be the standard over the next couple of years, I can imagine it holding it's value quite nicely.
Also with the rMBP, it IS possible to upgrade the memory even though you're locked into the RAM you buy.
If you return your rMBP to Apple with failed RAM soldered on the board they could possibly remove it and replace it with a larger capacity stick (in theory). I'm not saying they would give you the option though.
My biggest concern about non upgradeable/removable RAM or SSD is not just the lack of upgrade but the hassle of getting it repaired when a removable version of either would be very easy and probably much cheaper to do yourself after the 3 year mandatory Applecare package has run out. Don't think the Applecare is mandatory? Go ask Apple how much a replacement retina screen costs.
So what you're saying is, that $2,200 Retinabook isn't actually $2,200. It's $2,550 because Apple Care is almost mandatory.