NSA Servers Collect Personal Data Sent by iPhone Apps

[mozumder]

I just finished a trip to London and Southern Africa. On my way, I had a chance to talk with numerous Brits and other Europeans. Of course, they are incensed that they are being recorded all the time by the NSA, but even more so, they are puzzled at why Obama has not yet been forced to resign. Such revelations in Europe would have led to widespread protests, yet Americans have been shockingly blase (can't figure out how to get the accent on the E) about the whole shenanigan.

It's ironic. My wife just drove by a Navy ad 'for our nation, for us all'. I wonder why they don't put up roadside ads garnering support for the NSA? I suppose the plaqard might read 'trust US. It's for the greater good.'

American's aren't demanding Obama resign because the activities of the NSA do not affect them.

Americans understand that metadata does not constitute private data.

It is only a small subset of precious snowflake libertarians that have the mistaken belief that metadata was private. The supreme court has already decided for them that it wasn't.

 

[MacNut]

American's aren't demanding Obama resign because the activities of the NSA do not affect them.

Americans understand that metadata does not constitute private data.

It is only a small subset of precious snowflake libertarians that have the mistaken belief that metadata was private. The supreme court has already decided for them that it wasn't.

First the NSA said, "we are not collecting your data" then it changed to, "we are collecting all data but not looking at it." So the rule is just don't trust the NSA.

Also where is your evidence that they are not targeting Americans. Is it because they said so, or do you have insider information?

 

[edk99]

So it is ok for the NSA to steal our personal data, but when Snowden does it he is a traitor?

To answer the question in your signature YES. I guess you don't know the definition of what a traitor is. NSA is not giving our data away to other countries or enemies. They are collecting it for their own analysis. Snowden has given some of that data away. A very big difference.

 

[MacNut]

To answer the question in your signature YES. I guess you don't know the definition of what a traitor is. NSA is not giving our data away to other countries or enemies. They are collecting it for their own analysis. Snowden has given some of that data away. A very big difference.

The NSA has swapped data with Europe and other countries. You don't think these agencies talk with their allies?

 

[Zombie Acorn]

To answer the question in your signature YES. I guess you don't know the definition of what a traitor is. NSA is not giving our data away to other countries or enemies. They are collecting it for their own analysis. Snowden has given some of that data away. A very big difference.

You think the NSA isn't sharing intelligence with other countries? Thats cute.

Also if they can broker an information trade with an "Enemy" be sure that they would sail any of our asses down the river in a few seconds if they obtained something valuable.

 

[mozumder]

First the NSA said, "we are not collecting your data" then it changed to, "we are collecting all data but not looking at it." So the rule is just don't trust the NSA.

Also where is your evidence that they are not targeting Americans. Is it because they said so, or do you have insider information?

It's because they said so, and all the released documents prove that.

Where is your document stating they're targeting Americans? Since all their documents were stolen and now public, I'm sure you can show them?

Right now, the only thing I see from the documents is that the NSA is actively protecting Americans privacy rights by filtering out data from Americans. Why would they even do that if they thought they could get away with privacy violations?

Put up or shut up.

 

[MacNut]

It's because they said so, and all the released documents prove that.

Where is your document stating they're targeting Americans? Since all their documents were stolen and now public, I'm sure you can show them?

Right now, the only thing I see from the documents is that the NSA is actively protecting Americans privacy rights by filtering out data from Americans.

Put up or shut up.

Oh right because last year the NSA denied any of these programs existed. And surely they are telling the truth now.

Enjoy http://www.theguardian.com/world/in...es-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1

 

[tgara]

It's because they said so, and all the released documents prove that.

Where is your document stating they're targeting Americans? Since all their documents were stolen and now public, I'm sure you can show them?

Right now, the only thing I see from the documents is that the NSA is actively protecting Americans privacy rights by filtering out data from Americans. Why would they even do that if they thought they could get away with privacy violations?

Put up or shut up.

This is all true as far as I can tell. Officials from the NSA have testified before Congress under oath about the program, a presidential commission investigated this matter, the news media has been all over it. However, no evidence has been produced that the NSA used any of the collected data in an abusive way to target any American individual or group. You can be sure that if someone was targeted for abuse, you would be hearing about it on the news, no? But so far, nothing... no examples of actual abuses of the NSA program or data for political purposes, commercial gain, or even personal advantage. If there is evidence of abuse out there, please someone provide a link to it.

What I conclude is that the NSA has been very responsible with the collected data so far (and in stark contrast to the IRS). In fact, the only NSA employee who has abused the system and revealed private information is Edward Snowden.

 

[MacNut]

This is all true as far as I can tell. Officials from the NSA have testified before Congress under oath about the program, a presidential commission investigated this matter, the news media has been all over it. However, no evidence has been produced that the NSA used any of the collected data in an abusive way to target any American individual or group. You can be sure that if someone was targeted for abuse, you would be hearing about it on the news, no? But so far, nothing... no examples of actual abuses of the NSA program or data for political purposes, commercial gain, or even personal advantage. If there is evidence of abuse out there, please someone provide a link to it.

What I conclude is that the NSA has been very responsible with the collected data so far (and in stark contrast to the IRS). In fact, the only NSA employee who has abused the system and revealed private information is Edward Snowden.

The publication of the Verizon phone records order had one immediate political impact. It revealed that at a Senate committee hearing in March 2013, the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, had given misleading testimony. He was asked by Senator Ron Wyden whether the NSA collected “any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans”. Clapper’s reply: “No, sir”.

Forced to revise his answer after the Guardian published the document in June, Clapper at first said that he had given “the least untruthful answer” possible in a public hearing. But then it emerged that Wyden’s office had given the DNI 24 hours notice of the question, and an opportunity to correct the record shortly thereafter. Clapper changed his account to say that he had simply forgotten about collection of domestic phone records.

The erroneous testimony sparked calls for Clapper’s dismissal and has become a glaring example of failings in the oversight arrangements that are supposed to govern NSA surveillance programs.

So ya.

 

[mrsir2009]

To answer the question in your signature YES. I guess you don't know the definition of what a traitor is. NSA is not giving our data away to other countries or enemies. They are collecting it for their own analysis. Snowden has given some of that data away. A very big difference.

Really?

The United Kingdom – United States of America Agreement (UKUSA), is a multilateral agreement for cooperation in signals intelligence between the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

Although the UKUSA alliance is often associated with the ECHELON system, processed intelligence is reliant on multiple sources of information and the intelligence shared is not restricted to signals intelligence.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement

 

[tgara]

So ya.

Clapper said in subsequent statements that he was confused by the questions posed, and corrected the erroneous testimony. I'm not defending him, btw. If he knowingly lied, he should be punished and several congressmen from both parties have called for his removal. They may be right.

But as I see it, the whole Clapper testimony thing is a bit of a sideshow. The bigger question we all should be concerned about is what the NSA is doing with the data. As I said, so far I do not know of any abuses. Are there any examples?

 

[MacNut]

Clapper said in subsequent statements that he was confused by the questions posed, and corrected the erroneous testimony. I'm not defending him, btw. If he knowingly lied, he should be punished and several congressmen from both parties have called for his removal. They may be right.

But as I see it, the whole Clapper testimony thing is a bit of a sideshow. The bigger question we all should be concerned about is what the NSA is doing with the data. As I said, so far I do not know of any abuses. Are there any examples?

The fact that Snowden was able to run away with everything is a big example. This proves that they don't know how to control the data or who has access too it.

Clapper committed treason by lying to Congress and should face charges.

 

[Rigby]

The bigger question we all should be concerned about is what the NSA is doing with the data. As I said, so far I do not know of any abuses. Are there any examples?

They have overstepped their authority thousands of times:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...10e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html

But even if they had not abused this power so far, who guarantees that it stays that way? The congressional oversight is obviously not working. Given the reports that the mass surveillance program has been completely ineffective as a counterterrorism tool, I see no justification for a program that is at best borderline unconstitutional.

 

[tgara]

The fact that Snowden was able to run away with everything is a big example. This proves that they don't know how to control the data or who has access too it.

But the NSA (government) didn't engage in any abuse of the data they held. Yes, the NSA may have been careless by not vetting him properly, or keeping an eye on him, etc. But that doesn't make the NSA guilty of disclosing confidential information. Look, I have no sympathy for Mr. Snowden. He is a thief and a traitor to this country, no question about it. He was in a position of trust and he abused that trust. But he acted on his own. It was he alone who stole and disclosed the data, not the NSA.

Clapper committed treason by lying to Congress and should face charges.

Treason is a little harsh. At worst, it's perjury, which is actionable.

----------

They have overstepped their authority thousands of times:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...10e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html

But even if they had not abused this power so far, who guarantees that it stays that way? The congressional oversight is obviously not working. Given the reports that the mass surveillance program has been completely ineffective as a counterterrorism tool, I see no justification for a program that is at best borderline unconstitutional.

It's not unconstitutional. That's been made abundantly clear by a whole line of Supreme Court cases.

 

[Rigby]

It's not unconstitutional. That's been made abundantly clear by a whole line of Supreme Court cases.

The Supreme Court has never even looked at this program.

 

[rdowns]

The Supreme Court has never even looked at this program.

Until someone files a suit, they won't. Rand Paul said he was going to file a class action suit but I suspect it was merely his weekly, look at me, put me on TV minute. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Rigby]

Until someone files a suit, they won't. Rand Paul said he was going to file a class action suit but I suspect it was merely his weekly, look at me, put me on TV minute. I hope I'm wrong.

I know. But there are serveral pending federal lawsuits, e.g. from the EFF and the ACLU. I'm confident that the Supreme Court will eventually review it, but it may take several years.

Here's an article from Wired that illustrates how flimsy the legal justification for this program is:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/10/nsa-smith-purse-snatching/

 

[phillipduran]

I would guess that about 99.99% is read by a computer infrastructure of some kind, looking out for keywords. Unless you're hiding something that you should be genuinely worried about being uncovered, why all this worry?.

The words of Brit everybody.

Don't let this mentality creep into the mindset of the US citizen. Control the government. Suppress the power of the government. Limit their ability or you too will one day say things like that. THIS government belongs to the people, the people do not belong to the government.

Governments gain power and corruption and unless you keep that beast in check, they will grab more and more until you are oppressed. Just about every single founding father of this nation spoke about not letting the government gain too much power. Spying on us. Militarization of our police forces. TSA growing power. Homeland security. Our current president even said years back that there should be a new Army created for use within the borders. Things are being setup to rule the citizens with an iron fist. They are already abusing IRS powers to target those they are opposed to. Get it in check or it is just going to get worse month after month until they start hauling people away.

 

[mozumder]

So ya.

Again, this is metadata, not private communications.

Government has the right to collect metadata of American citizens without a warrant, according to the Supreme Court. That is because metadata isn't private.

Show us where government is collecting actual private communications, without a court order.

The documents are out there. Put up or shut up.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Lol!

Since everything I do is tracked and monitored, I only use computers and electronic devices to look at the most exotic and weird forms of pornography imaginable.

Go figure from a user dubbing themselves "Xenomorph!" Bravo!

 

[rdowns]

Since everything I do is tracked and monitored, I only use computers and electronic devices to look at the most exotic and weird forms of pornography imaginable.

Can you elaborate on that a little? I'd hate to think I'm missing out on some depravity.

 

[tgara]

The Supreme Court has never even looked at this program.

They don't need to. They have outlined what is and is not a constitutional search and seizure under the fourth amendment in the whole line of cases, and this type of information is not protected under the fourth amendment. Didn't you take Con Law in law school?

 

[Rigby]

They don't need to.

Yes they will. We already have conflicting rulings, it's just a matter of time until the Supreme Court will have to intervene.

They have outlined what is and is not a constitutional search and seizure under the fourth amendment in the whole line of cases, and this type of information is not protected under the fourth amendment.

The "whole line of cases" is all based on single, 35 year old precedent dealing with a lone phone stalker. The notion that this can be applied to the wholesale surveillance of the entire population is, shall we say, far-fetched. Until very recently nobody even knew that the FISA court used this as a cover for the NSA's dubious activities since their ruling was secret. But as they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. The roaches are already scurrying.

 

[LagunaSol]

If only the government gave out free email addresses and subsidized hardware. Then everyone would embrace being spied upon 24/7 - with big smiles on their faces.

 

[AustinIllini]

If only the government gave out free email addresses and subsidized hardware. Then everyone would embrace being spied upon 24/7 - with big smiles on their faces.

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