People kinda need to hold off being too excited for the Surface Book.

[maflynn]

, I can easily afford to take any risk that may present itself, and there may be many indeed.

Well risk mitigation is an important part and if your comfortable with the risks, then there's no reason. For me my funds are much more constrained (read I have two kids and a wife and I'd die a slow death if I bought this now )

I was using my SP3 for the past few days and there were some things I missed with OS X that I do wonder if I get the SB would I fully miss. On the other hand, having more flexibility and abilities with Windows allowed me to work a little more efficient - so go figure

 

[AppleRobert]

BGR had an article that stated every version of the Book on Microsoft online store is sold out.

 

[spinedoc77]

Well risk mitigation is an important part and if your comfortable with the risks, then there's no reason. For me my funds are much more constrained (read I have two kids and a wife and I'd die a slow death if I bought this now )

I was using my SP3 for the past few days and there were some things I missed with OS X that I do wonder if I get the SB would I fully miss. On the other hand, having more flexibility and abilities with Windows allowed me to work a little more efficient - so go figure

You have to get the wife addicted, makes things much easier. I give my wife my SP3, she gets excited and then the SP4 isn't an issue when it comes out of the box.

 

[TechGod]

You have to get the wife addicted, makes things much easier. I give my wife my SP3, she gets excited and then the SP4 isn't an issue when it comes out of the box.

Oh My God. Are you trying to encourage him to waste money? you're a horrible influence!

 

[touchstoned]

I'm not impressed. Calling the dgpu "innovative" is interesting considering it's actually a step back in terms of efficiency and harkens back to the days of Intel Graphics or HD3000 when laptops wouldn't even run games slowly, they wouldn't even render. So back then, they used nvidia dgpus in laptops.


Microsoft has finally reached the level of innovation that compaq achieved circa 1999. So they stuff that archaic inefficient dgpu, plus a "skylake" intel processor that essentially preforms the same as an intel processor for 3 or 4 years ago into a shiny chassis with a new hinge and people eat it up. It will preform similar (but poorer) to a 13" MBP in everything except possibly games, where it will still be limited by its TDP. It will be crushed by the 15" quad-core macbook pro in everything including possibly many games, at least if its equipped with a 950M and a dual-core cpu. The 2x speed claims are probably in direct reference to one benchmark, likely 3Dmark.

"Microsoft is the new Apple".... People are actually typing those words on their macbooks, ostensibly thinking they are actually true! I find that appalling, the level of pandering people have started to do for microsoft in their incessant blundering (Windows 8, Windows 10, non-pro surface) has reached epic scale and has actually overtaken macrumors. Where will it go next? Al-Jazeera?

This is just another flawed product by a flawed company. Microsoft should stick to business software, the only thing they consistently do more or less competently.

 

[spinedoc77]

I'm not impressed. Calling the dgpu "innovative" is interesting considering it's actually a step back in terms of efficiency and harkens back to the days of Intel Graphics or HD3000 when laptops wouldn't even run games slowly, they wouldn't even render. So back then, they used nvidia dgpus in laptops.


Microsoft has finally reached the level of innovation that compaq achieved circa 1999. So they stuff that archaic inefficient dgpu, plus a "skylake" intel processor that essentially preforms the same as an intel processor for 3 or 4 years ago into a shiny chassis with a new hinge and people eat it up. It will preform similar (but poorer) to a 13" MBP in everything except possibly games, where it will still be limited by its TDP. It will be crushed by the 15" quad-core macbook pro in everything including possibly many games, at least if its equipped with a 950M and a dual-core cpu. The 2x speed claims are probably in direct reference to one benchmark, likely 3Dmark.

"Microsoft is the new Apple".... People are actually typing those words on their macbooks, ostensibly thinking they are actually true! I find that appalling, the level of pandering people have started to do for microsoft in their incessant blundering (Windows 8, Windows 10, non-pro surface) has reached epic scale and has actually overtaken macrumors. Where will it go next? Al-Jazeera?

This is just another flawed product by a flawed company. Microsoft should stick to business software, the only thing they consistently do more or less competently.

Absolutely agree 100%. When you get that 15" quad core MacBook pro and pull off the screen and start drawing on it with a stylus rest assured you made the right choice.

A full windows OS on a tablet like the surface/surface pro? Bleh that's so 2015, why don't we put a watered down 1999 OS on a tablet? Maybe that 1999 level of innovation is underrated.

 

[touchstoned]

Absolutely agree 100%. When you get that 15" quad core MacBook pro and pull off the screen and start drawing on it with a stylus rest assured you made the right choice.

A full windows OS on a tablet like the surface/surface pro? Bleh that's so 2015, why don't we put a watered down 1999 OS on a tablet? Maybe that 1999 level of innovation is underrated.

Compaq and HP already innovated that.

And what an amazing product that was! Really, for the price of this surface book you could easily get an ipad pro that will last you 10 hours battery life with a superior scree, gpu, cpu, and software and a 12" macbook that is way lighter and more attractive, and preforms basically the same as your ridiculous compaq T1100 2015 model wait I mean surface book.

It's a non starter. I am their exact demographic and I scoff at the product, same with most of the people I know save my fool cousin who drools over such amazing pieces of engineering as Xbox one. They will probably break even on costs or perhaps fool a few rubes into being product test lemmings. It's the Microsoft way.

In your strange obsession to draw on and fondle your laptop screen you have crossed the purposes of a laptop and a tablet device, and made something that is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. Sweet.

 

[fieldsphotos]

Wow, lots of hating on the use case for a surface book here. I am a photographer and would LOVE to be able to edit in Photoshop with a stylus on a ultra light laptop while I travel, etc. A poor man's Cintiq as it were.

I am waiting to order one until actual reviews and benchmarks come out, but if it has good performance for photoshop and lightroom, I am in.

 

[FFR]

Compaq and HP already innovated that.

And what an amazing product that was! Really, for the price of this surface book you could easily get an ipad pro that will last you 10 hours battery life with a superior scree, gpu, cpu, and software and a 12" macbook that is way lighter and more attractive, and preforms basically the same as your ridiculous compaq T1100 2015 model wait I mean surface book.

It's a non starter. I am their exact demographic and I scoff at the product, same with most of the people I know save my fool cousin who drools over such amazing pieces of engineering as Xbox one. They will probably break even on costs or perhaps fool a few rubes into being product test lemmings. It's the Microsoft way.

In your strange obsession to draw on and fondle your laptop screen you have crossed the purposes of a laptop and a tablet device, and made something that is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. Sweet.

I kind of agree with you I'm passing on the surface book and picking up an iPad pro, I wanted a tablet first and three hours sot for the surface book in tablet mode is abysmal.

Also to consider dimensions, weight, and battery life:

iPad pro: 6.9 mm/ 713 g/ 10 hours
Surface book: 7.7mm/ 728 g/ 3 hours
Surface book docked: 13-23mm/ 1,515g/ 12 hours
And for comparisons sake:
Surface 4: 8.9 mm/ 786 g/ 9 hours

Some people were asking about the surface pro 4, too big.

 

[spinedoc77]

Compaq and HP already innovated that.

And what an amazing product that was! Really, for the price of this surface book you could easily get an ipad pro that will last you 10 hours battery life with a superior scree, gpu, cpu, and software and a 12" macbook that is way lighter and more attractive, and preforms basically the same as your ridiculous compaq T1100 2015 model wait I mean surface book.

It's a non starter. I am their exact demographic and I scoff at the product, same with most of the people I know save my fool cousin who drools over such amazing pieces of engineering as Xbox one. They will probably break even on costs or perhaps fool a few rubes into being product test lemmings. It's the Microsoft way.

In your strange obsession to draw on and fondle your laptop screen you have crossed the purposes of a laptop and a tablet device, and made something that is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. Sweet.

Plenty of people said the surface pro was a non starter, look where that went. Sure you can get an IPP, but can you run PhotoShop, CAD, etc on it? That 12" MacBook has a dgpu, removable tablet, stylus? Go get a T1100 and put it next to a surface book, go ahead I dare you. Put them side by side and tell me about the dimensions, the weight, the OS, the dgpu's, the digitizer/stylus technology, etc. Yeah I thought so.

Look, I'm not necessarily defending the surface book, it's not my cup of tea and I don't think it will sell as much as the surface pro's, although it did sell out pretty quickly. I just can't stand to hear inane comments about 1999 technology, especially when they include the iPad which is 1999 OS technology, and that's being generous.

Yeah I have a strange obsession to draw and fondle on my tablet screen, not on my laptop screen, keep up it's not rocket science. That strange obsession is shared by a heck of a lot of people who use it for work and personal use, ever hear of a company called Wacom? It's comical to note the hate towards stylus use on the surface book, but then say you are going to get an IPP which finally incorporated a stylus in 2015, but let me guess you don't plan on using the stylus on your iPad laptop.

Anyhow why the anger? It's kind of comical seeing someone so incensed over a product release.

So just to reiterate what an inane comparison the TC1100 versus the surface book pro is, here are some pics.

 

[mclld]

You know MS is killing it when you see so many salty hardcore Apple people lashing out. Even the most hardcore fanboy of any company should be glad the competition is putting out great stuff, it just means everyone will work hard to improve

 

[Liquorpuki]

In your strange obsession to draw on and fondle your laptop screen you have crossed the purposes of a laptop and a tablet device, and made something that is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. Sweet.

Over the last year, I used my SP3 to take notes and study for the last two classes to finish up my MS Degree, do Matlab programming for my Grad Project, draft up documents for work, take notes at conferences, and study for my engineering license. If I had to write down an equation or create a sketch, I just pulled up OneNote and drew on it.

The whole argument about not a good laptop or not a good tablet is dumb. In 2015, it's good enough in both spaces to make convergence worth it. If you needed the best in class for convergence to be an option, nobody'd be using smartphones right now. Everyone would still be carrying a flip phone and a PDA.

 

[Renzatic]

Some people were asking about the surface pro 4, too big.

When you start drilling down to numbers that fine, the differences between the SP4 and iPP are pretty much nil. 2mm and 1/5th of a pound aren't worth fretting over. In practice, they'd look and feel about the same.

 

[Renzatic]

The whole argument about not a good laptop or not a good tablet is dumb. In 2015, it's good enough in both spaces to make convergence worth it. If you needed the best in class for convergence to be an option, nobody'd be using smartphones right now.

I don't know how he could say it's good at neither, since it's primarily designed to a laptop on par with the MBP series. Being able to remove the screen for some decent, if not shortlived tablet time doesn't change that.

 

[touchstoned]

Plenty of people said the surface pro was a non starter, look where that went. Sure you can get an IPP, but can you run PhotoShop, CAD, etc on it? That 12" MacBook has a dgpu, removable tablet, stylus? Go get a T1100 and put it next to a surface book, go ahead I dare you. Put them side by side and tell me about the dimensions, the weight, the OS, the dgpu's, the digitizer/stylus technology, etc. Yeah I thought so.

Look, I'm not necessarily defending the surface book, it's not my cup of tea and I don't think it will sell as much as the surface pro's, although it did sell out pretty quickly. I just can't stand to hear inane comments about 1999 technology, especially when they include the iPad which is 1999 OS technology, and that's being generous.

Yeah I have a strange obsession to draw and fondle on my tablet screen, not on my laptop screen, keep up it's not rocket science. That strange obsession is shared by a heck of a lot of people who use it for work and personal use, ever hear of a company called Wacom? It's comical to note the hate towards stylus use on the surface book, but then say you are going to get an IPP which finally incorporated a stylus in 2015, but let me guess you don't plan on using the stylus on your iPad laptop.

Anyhow why the anger? It's kind of comical seeing someone so incensed over a product release.

The 13" macbook pro is perfectly capable of taking a dgpu and up until pretty recently you were allowed to upgrade the 13" to dgpu, so it's not like MS is breaking new ground here by offering that. The use cases for the surface pro are very legitimate and it appears to do some things that no apple product can, not so with this surface book. This is just a 2015 version of HP Compaq T1100, and it will similarly flop. The price is absurd! I mean for the top config you could get a quad core macbook pro and an ipad pro, both! If Apple is overpriced then what does that make microsoft selling a $2600 dual core laptop?


I don't think you understand that I'm not frustrated with MS or its products so much as the ridiculous fanboy responses to every MS product release. This is macrumors and we should know better than to fall for such gimmicks as "2x as fast LOLZ". Are you seriously arguing that MS is telling the truth when they say its 2x as fast?

If apple made such absurd claims they would be crucified.

 

[spinedoc77]

The 13" macbook pro is perfectly capable of taking a dgpu and up until pretty recently you were allowed to upgrade the 13" to dgpu, so it's not like MS is breaking new ground here by offering that. The use cases for the surface pro are very legitimate and it appears to do some things that no apple product can, not so with this surface book. This is just a 2015 version of HP Compaq T1100, and it will similarly flop. The price is absurd! I mean for the top config you could get a quad core macbook pro and an ipad pro, both! If Apple is overpriced then what does that make microsoft selling a $2600 dual core laptop?


I don't think you understand that I'm not frustrated with MS or its products so much as the ridiculous fanboy responses to every MS product release. This is macrumors and we should know better than to fall for such gimmicks as "2x as fast LOLZ". Are you seriously arguing that MS is telling the truth when they say its 2x as fast?

If apple made such absurd claims they would be crucified.

I don't disagree, it is overpriced. It's probably a niche market as well, but I think within that niche market it will sell well. Once again I don't think it's going to be a blockbuster or anything, but it won't lose money either IMO. The surface pros seem to be very popular with those who need the stylus support, and I think that will be the niche the surface book slides into.

Of course I've previously pointed out that with better battery life the SP4 might be a better option unless you need the dGPU, that's why I think the higher priced models will actually sell better. I can't see much of a use for the non dGPU units over the SP4 other than the larger screen size, but with the loss of battery life and the kickstand.

I still don't get the TC1100 analogy though, I can pick every single one of Apple's offerings and say it's a 2015 version of something else, I just don't see the comparison other than very loosely in functionality. The surface book can do some things the MacBook cannot absolutely do, and will therefore appeal to that market. Whether that market can sustain the product is still a question mark, once again I don't disagree with you I just think it's too early to tell. The surface books all sold out pretty quickly so that's a good thing. But I suppose we will see how it sells.

Personally I think MS should have just stuck with the surface pro 4, made 2 screen sizes and sold the dgpu separately. I feel they are splintering their own market by having the tablet portion of the surface book have very low battery life, no kickstand, etc. I'm picking up a SP4 myself, but thought long and hard about getting the surface book because of the larger screen size.

 

[Renzatic]

The 13" macbook pro is perfectly capable of taking a dgpu and up until pretty recently you were allowed to upgrade the 13" to dgpu, so it's not like MS is breaking new ground here by offering that. The use cases for the surface pro are very legitimate and it appears to do some things that no apple product can, not so with this surface book. This is just a 2015 version of HP Compaq T1100, and it will similarly flop. The price is absurd! I mean for the top config you could get a quad core macbook pro and an ipad pro, both! If Apple is overpriced then what does that make microsoft selling a $2600 dual core laptop?

I can't argue with you on the price, but the comparison to that old Compaq is pretty suspect.

Have you ever played with one of those? It was a massive, uncomfortable bastard of a thing that lasted about 2 hours on a charge. It wasn't a good laptop, and it wasn't a good tablet.

The Book looks and acts like a laptop, weighs about as much as the MBP, and has the added bonus of being able to flip the screen around, or take it off and play with it for a couple of hours. There aren't any real compromises there. The only weird thing about it is that gap when it's closed. But it's there to give a slight angle for those who want to draw on it. When it's closed with the screen flipped outwards, it sits at about the same angle as the SP3/4 does at its lowest point. Perfect for drawing or writing on.

It has about as much in common with the T1100 as the iPad does with the Newton. It's the execution, not the basic idea, that sets them apart from their ancient predecessors.

 

[lowendlinux]

The 13" macbook pro is perfectly capable of taking a dgpu and up until pretty recently you were allowed to upgrade the 13" to dgpu, so it's not like MS is breaking new ground here by offering that. The use cases for the surface pro are very legitimate and it appears to do some things that no apple product can, not so with this surface book. This is just a 2015 version of HP Compaq T1100, and it will similarly flop. The price is absurd! I mean for the top config you could get a quad core macbook pro and an ipad pro, both! If Apple is overpriced then what does that make microsoft selling a $2600 dual core laptop?


I don't think you understand that I'm not frustrated with MS or its products so much as the ridiculous fanboy responses to every MS product release. This is macrumors and we should know better than to fall for such gimmicks as "2x as fast LOLZ". Are you seriously arguing that MS is telling the truth when they say its 2x as fast?

If apple made such absurd claims they would be crucified.

The GPU's were nVidia but not really discreet

 

[Liquorpuki]

The 13" macbook pro is perfectly capable of taking a dgpu and up until pretty recently you were allowed to upgrade the 13" to dgpu, so it's not like MS is breaking new ground here by offering that. The use cases for the surface pro are very legitimate and it appears to do some things that no apple product can, not so with this surface book. This is just a 2015 version of HP Compaq T1100, and it will similarly flop. The price is absurd! I mean for the top config you could get a quad core macbook pro and an ipad pro, both! If Apple is overpriced then what does that make microsoft selling a $2600 dual core laptop?

This Surface Book is basically a Surface Pro geared toward those who use the device mostly in laptop mode or need a dGPU boost. It was a no-brainer for me since the only time I took the keyboard cover off my SP3 was if I was taking notes. Far as breaking new ground, MS figured out how to hotswap an external GPU into a tablet through the charging/data contacts. That's a pretty big deal technology-wise and means moving forward, MS could sell different SKU bases with more powerful dGPU's.

Also MS overprices their hardware to give their OEM's margin to compete. Apple overprices to capitalize on brand strength and started doing funny stuff like stick ULV chips in their iMacs.

I don't think you understand that I'm not frustrated with MS or its products so much as the ridiculous fanboy responses to every MS product release. This is macrumors and we should know better than to fall for such gimmicks as "2x as fast LOLZ". Are you seriously arguing that MS is telling the truth when they say its 2x as fast?

If apple made such absurd claims they would be crucified.

Apple claimed the iPad Pro is faster than 80% of laptops out there based solely on clock rate. In the age of parallelism you don't just look at clock rate and when it comes to performance, you can't ignore the fact a passive cooling TDP also gives you less computing power. Apple claiming the iPad Pro has a console-class GPU is pretty absurd too.

Up until recently, MS sucked at marketing. This was the first keynote where people didn't have to listen to Joe Belfiore's whiny voice and make fun of his hair. A big reason why that event made a huge impression was they copied Apple down to a T. Everything from the secrecy to the one more thing moment to Panos Panay using superlatives all over the place.

 

[FFR]

When you start drilling down to numbers that fine, the differences between the SP4 and iPP are pretty much nil. 2mm and 1/5th of a pound aren't worth fretting over. In practice, they'd look and feel about the same.

True I could compromise on the extra 2mm, the extra 73g, the smaller screen, and less battery life, but why should I?

I decided on the iPad pro. Now to decide between the gold and the slate grey.

Oh and the surface variant i would have purchased costs £1300 vs £749-£849 for the iPad pro.

To all those that decided on the surface book or pro 4 congrats on your purchase.

 

[Renzatic]

I decided on the iPad pro. Now to decide between the gold and the slate grey.

Space Grey or Silver all the way. My personal, entirely subjective opinion is that the gold isn't so much gold, as it is Smokers White.

 

[burgman]

If apple made such absurd claims they would be crucified.

Uh, have you ever watched an Apple Keynote?
A 2015 Mercedes is the new version of the 1886 model. I don't understand the point of view complaining that new products are just remakes of older ones. Are you saying that the first version of a particular new product category should freeze out future iterations? How fun that would be using my old gear. Yeah imagine the possibilities

 

[touchstoned]

Uh, have you ever watched an Apple Keynote?
A 2015 Mercedes is the new version of the 1886 model. I don't understand the point of view complaining that new products are just remakes of older ones. Are you saying that the first version of a particular new product category should freeze out future iterations? How fun that would be using my old gear. Yeah imagine the possibilities

Every time apple makes a claim about performance in a keynote it is tested and always turns out to be pretty much exactly right. If you look at the claimed performance increases when they release Macbooks you will see the exact figures: 15% cpu and 30% GPU or something of that sort. It is only on the iPhone and iPad keynotes where they claim 50%+ increases in performance, and they are always borne out to be true.

Please look up the keynotes because you aren't remembering them properly, Apple would never claim a 2X performance increase in a macbook and never has come close to claiming such an increase because x86 just doesn't improve that quickly as a platform.

Then, please take a look at the spec sheet for this surface book, claimed to be 2x (100%) faster than the 13" macbook pro, and tell me you think those figures are legitimate. I just want to see you type that, at which point I can stop arguing about this because you would have to be insane to think a dual core with a gtx 9xxM gpu is going to be 100% faster than any macbook made in the last 5 years.

 

[Renzatic]

Then, please take a look at the spec sheet for this surface book, claimed to be 2x (100%) faster than the 13" macbook pro, and tell me you think those figures are legitimate. I just want to see you type that, at which point I can stop arguing about this because you would have to be insane to think a dual core with a gtx 9xxM gpu is going to be 100% faster than any macbook made in the last 5 years.

MS is doing the exact same thing Apple does here. They'll come up with these numbers that are technically true, but don't explain they're being judged by a narrow criteria, or under very specific circumstances.

No matter who says what, I never pay much heed to the numbers being rattled off at keynotes.

 

[fieldsphotos]

I see that the surface book now has 7-8 week shipping times for the dGPU units. That custom nVidia chip must be slowing production.

I went ahead and ordered one so I can get it before years end, which is when I was needing to upgrade my 13" Air. If the actual benchmarks suck, I will just cancel the order. But at least now I am on the list to get one.