PowerBook G3 Wallstreet "PDQ" Appreciation

[Macbookprodude]

The later models with the 7455 can be upgraded to a 7457, and clocked at around 1.2 GHz.

1.2 ghz w/ L3 Cache 1 or 2MB ?

 

[dosdude1]

Compared to 1.0ghz, is the speed difference something I will see in rendering light video editing ? Also, can you fix screens ? I have a Titanium (2 of them) - one is using a lower res screen and the other one which is the higher res screen has an issue with the graphics chip + other small issues with it.

Graphics chipset is something I can replace easily. As for the screens, the older Titaniums (1st gen ones) use a lower res screen, and the newer models (667 MHz and later) use the higher resolution panel. They are not interchangeable as far as I'm aware, but I may be mistaken.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Graphics chipset is something I can replace easily. As for the screens, the older Titaniums (1st gen ones) use a lower res screen, and the newer models (667 MHz and later) use the higher resolution panel. They are not interchangeable as far as I'm aware, but I may be mistaken.

Yes, because this 1ghz Titanium I am using came with a lower res screen which works great, but i prefer my 1280 screen. I don't want to mess with it, as the Titanium parts are brittle and they can break easily compared to the Aluminum PowerBooks. The graphics goes wild when I am running youtube, but when I did a graphics stress test, no abnormalities at all, strange. IF I were to send you my titanium, is possible you can fix for a fee ?

 

[dosdude1]

1.2 ghz w/ L3 Cache 1 or 2MB ?

L3 cache is external, so it'd stay at 1MB. L2 cache would be increased from 256K to 512K.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Ok, if I can get the chip.. 7457 and send you the system w/ the chip, how much to install it ?

 

[dosdude1]

Ok, if I can get the chip.. 7457 and send you the system w/ the chip, how much to install it ?

I have a ton of 7457s already. I can do the upgrade for $150, using one of the chipsets I have already.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I have a ton of 7457s already. I can do the upgrade for $150, using one of the chipsets I have already.

Ok, cool.. I will send you the Titanium that has the hi res screen. Email me in private your address, so I can send to you.

 

[AphoticD]

They are not interchangeable as far as I'm aware, but I may be mistaken.

In my experience, the lower res panel from the Onyx and Mercury models are compatible with the DVI model and later, however there is a magnet at the rear of the panel which needs to be repositioned to trigger the hall sensor near the trackpad.

I have also successfully installed an 1152x res panel from an early Titanium into an early Aluminum PBG4 15”. Every Titanium and Aluminum 15.2” PowerBook G4 except for the A1138 (DLSD) uses the same LVDS and inverter connections.

There is a report here of somebody trying a 1280x res panel in an Onyx (550MHz), which resulted in a glitchy resolution. They suggested they would try SwitchResX but never reported the outcome, so I would assume that it didn’t work.

 

[randomdamage]

Awesome, glad to see it runs well. My main concern was definitely the cooling, so hopefully it stays cool enough to continue running stably. Very surprised you were able to source brand new 7400s, had no idea anyone still sold them.

Yep, it definitely runs warmer. I'm playing with the heat spreader to optimize heat transfer to the sheet metal cover.

 

[randomdamage]

Regarding the PDQ with the 7400... In OS9, no matter what I try, I haven't been able to get any applications to use Altivec. On a fresh install (as well as a not-so-fresh install) of 9.0.4 (Universal), ASP recognizes the processor as "PowerPC G4", as does Metronome, Gauge Pro, and every other utility that I've got.

However, in Gauge Pro, "Altivec Support" is shown as "No". I've also run the AltiVec Fractal Carbon app and it too does not detect Altivec. I've tried going into open firmware and changing the CPU property name, changing the pvr value to some other G4, adding "altivec" property, etc., but can't seem to get OS9 to enable Altivec. I do have the vBasicOps, vBigNum, vMathLib, and vectorOps extensions enabled.

Meanwhile... I have no issues while running OS X (Tiger). Running the same AltiVec Fractal Carbon app, it correctly detects Altivec and gives me ~1.5Gflop speeds.

I wonder what magic I need to get OS9 to enable Altivec? Anyone have any ideas? (I did try loading the Sonnet Crescendo/WS software. It gave me the "Crescendo /WS" extension, but doesn't seem to do anything.)

 

[Macbookprodude]

Hmm.. powerlogix had at one time a utility called ativecenabler1.0 - but I can’t seem to find it and wayback gives an error when I request download - maybe someone here has this app. Come to think of it, I may see if the G4 550 chip I have from wegener media is detecting AltiVec under OS 9.

 

[galgot]

PDQ Accelerated!

Not to be discouraged by a few failed attempts, I systematically went through each iteration of Mac OS X updates from 10.4.11 backwards to find a working driver for the ATI Rage LT Pro.

Mac OS X 10.4.3 - 10.4.11 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.4.4.2 (1366)
Mac OS X 10.4.0 - 10.4.2 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.4.0.11 (2895)
Mac OS X 10.3.7 - 10.3.9 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.26.1 (2435)
Mac OS X 10.3.4 - 10.3.6 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.18.2 (2059)
Mac OS X 10.3.3 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.8.6 (1978)
Mac OS X 10.3.0 - 10.3.2 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.3.0.11 (1734)

(Each patched to include the '0x4c501002' device ID).

All of which resulted in the same behaviour as before; Purple patches in Millions of Colors and psychedelic distortion when set to Thousands.

Until finally;
Mac OS X 10.2.8 ATIRagePro.kext + ATIRageProGA.plugin v1.2.26.32 (1679)

We now have full 2D acceleration in Tiger 10.4.11 on the PDQ! Setting bit depth to "Thousands" results in the best performance. Disabling shadows makes a massive improvement in redraw (I'm using Shadowless, but ShadowKiller will do the same).

View attachment 764270

This has made the 233Mhz/512K PDQ with 384MB of RAM a very acceptable performer with Tiger. Everything has become fluid and responsive much like the Pismo (which operates at more than twice the speed at 500Mhz/1MB with 1GB RAM).

The only downside is that OpenGL surfaces fail to initiate due to an invalid pixelformat error. This means Screensavers are broken and any OpenGL based 3D apps and games which don't have a fallback.

View attachment 764267
VRAM is now reported as 8MB (not 16MB as before). Actual is still just 4MB though.

View attachment 764266

Attached is the modified ATIRagePro.kext and ATIRageProGA.plugin drivers (v1.2.26) to install into a Tiger installation.

ATIRageProDrivers10.2.8.zip

To install, download and unzip, copy into /System/Library/Extensions/, then in Terminal;

sudo chown -R root:wheel /System/Library/Extensions/ATIRagePro*
sudo chmod -R 755 /System/Library/Extensions/ATIRagePro*
sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions
sudo rm /System/Library/Extensions.mkext
sudo rm /System/Library/Extensions.kextcache

You can then reboot and OS X will rebuild the caches during boot time, but I found it's easier to ask XPostFacto to "Install Extensions", which will automatically rebuild the boot caches and allow a normal reboot.

I hope this can help some other PDQ owners to squeeze the most out of this old Mac.

-AphoticD

Hi, I know this is an old post, but I finally managed to try an Tiger install on a PDQ 266 Mhz.
Was not easy, and involved several install cloning and so forth cause it would want to install from install CDs, but I have it running.
A question though, did you had problem with sleep ? If mine goes to sleep, it doesn't wake, it's like shutdown.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Regarding the PDQ with the 7400... In OS9, no matter what I try, I haven't been able to get any applications to use Altivec. On a fresh install (as well as a not-so-fresh install) of 9.0.4 (Universal), ASP recognizes the processor as "PowerPC G4", as does Metronome, Gauge Pro, and every other utility that I've got.

However, in Gauge Pro, "Altivec Support" is shown as "No". I've also run the AltiVec Fractal Carbon app and it too does not detect Altivec. I've tried going into open firmware and changing the CPU property name, changing the pvr value to some other G4, adding "altivec" property, etc., but can't seem to get OS9 to enable Altivec. I do have the vBasicOps, vBigNum, vMathLib, and vectorOps extensions enabled.

Meanwhile... I have no issues while running OS X (Tiger). Running the same AltiVec Fractal Carbon app, it correctly detects Altivec and gives me ~1.5Gflop speeds.

I wonder what magic I need to get OS9 to enable Altivec? Anyone have any ideas? (I did try loading the Sonnet Crescendo/WS software. It gave me the "Crescendo /WS" extension, but doesn't seem to do anything.)

try an actual fresh install of Mac OS 9 on the machine now its got a G4 CPU or on a G4 Machine then transfer the install over

should work then

Classic Mac OS is a bit funky, in that it only installs drivers/software for only the hardware it detects at install time

unless you manually go into the installer and tell it to install everything etc

this is why USB cards dont work on existing G3 beige OS 9 installs for example

 

[ervus]

Anyways, just wanted to post that I successfully swapped in a G4 CPU on my original 266MHz CPU card.

Very nice! Thanks for posting your results. I've noticed that the 7410 CPUs can use significantly less power than the 7400. This was helpful to get a dual CPU Cube that remained fanless, but it should apply to these notebook computers as well. You can also drop the voltage to reduce power/heat. It seems like apple liked to set the voltage at the top of the range as a general rule.

 

[Amethyst1]

I've noticed that the 7410 CPUs can use significantly less power than the 7400.

Wasn't that the whole point of the 7410 so that it could be shoehorned into the TiBook?

 

[Macbookprodude]

Like the 7400, the 7450 uses more power and that’s in my 1Ghz titanium.. I am planning to update this with a 1.2 7457

 

[randomdamage]

try an actual fresh install of Mac OS 9 on the machine now its got a G4 CPU or on a G4 Machine then transfer the install over

should work then

Classic Mac OS is a bit funky, in that it only installs drivers/software for only the hardware it detects at install time

unless you manually go into the installer and tell it to install everything etc

this is why USB cards dont work on existing G3 beige OS 9 installs for example

Unfortunately, I did a complete from scratch 9.0.4 install on a blank partition. That said, it was from a mounted installer disk image while booted from an existing OS9 install. I’ll try booting from the installer disk directly to see if that makes a difference!

 

[Macbookprodude]

*By Request* - does anyone have altivecenabler1.1 ?

 

[randomdamage]

Very nice! Thanks for posting your results. I've noticed that the 7410 CPUs can use significantly less power than the 7400. This was helpful to get a dual CPU Cube that remained fanless, but it should apply to these notebook computers as well. You can also drop the voltage to reduce power/heat. It seems like apple liked to set the voltage at the top of the range as a general rule.

Adjusting the core voltage down a touch should help. I'll give that a go. The 7410 isn't a practical option for the PDQ, since the cache is running at 3.3V on the CPU card and the 7410 doesn't support that voltage option.

Unfortunately, STILL no luck enabling Altivec under OS9. I booted from a retail 9.1 CD and installed to a freshly formatted drive, choosing to do a Universal Install. No luck...

I've been trying to track down the PowerLogix Altivec Enabler but have not been able to locate it anywhere.

 

[weckart]

Unfortunately, STILL no luck enabling Altivec under OS9. I booted from a retail 9.1 CD and installed to a freshly formatted drive, choosing to do a Universal Install. No luck...

A quick scoot around the web found this web forum post.

Probert
Jan 20 2003
1.1.3

5.0
I wanted to check whether the altivec enabler was functioning for the G4 upgrade in my Powermac. The mac (system profile etc) doesn't give accurate information on the upgrade, so it's hard to know what's actually going on. Your program was concise, easy to use and answered the question. Thank you

Seems like Fractal generating programs were the in thing back in the day to check whether Altivec was being invoked as System Profiler was giving bum info.

 

[randomdamage]

A quick scoot around the web found this web forum post.




Seems like Fractal generating programs were the in thing back in the day to check whether Altivec was being invoked as System Profiler was giving bum info.

Yep, I've been using the AltiVec Fractal Carbon app under both 9 and X. It clearly is using Altivec in OS X, but not in Mac OS 9 unfortunately.

 

[Macbookprodude]

There is an app from PowerLogix called altivec enabler for 9, but all attempts of finding it have failed..

the file is - altivecenabler1.0.hqx.sit - however I tried going to a past PowerLogix site before OWC took over and that site where one can download it doesn’t exist(maybe not archived).. that is the only way to get altivec enabled under OS 9.. whoever has this, please preserve it by uploading to the garden.

 

[randomdamage]

I'm curious know if anyone could dump the rom from a Sonnet or PowerLogix Wallstreet G4 upgrade card? I'd be curious to see what they may have patched during the rom transfer process from the original CPU card.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I'm curious know if anyone could dump the rom from a Sonnet or PowerLogix Wallstreet G4 upgrade card? I'd be curious to see what they may have patched during the rom transfer process from the original CPU card.

I think altivec should be working without something that drastic

the G3 beige Desktop machines or even older the PowerSurge machines never got nor needed any sort of ROM patching, so I doubt the PDQ would need anything, its just a G3 beige in laptop form factor

(although as you say I am curious if the Sonnet/PowerLogix cards did do any patching, for maybe say better OOB CPU detection like enabling L2 at the lowest level rather then with an enabler in the OS)


have you tried Mac OS 9.2.2?

 

[Macbookprodude]

To enable altivec in OS 9, need altivecenabler1.1.sit.hqx