Self Checkouts

[Nermal]

Yeah, cash is actually seeing an uptick because credit/debit processing fees have gotten so high here that businesses are increasingly offering cash discounts or tacking on extra fees for credit/debit card use to account for them. Last I read, the banking industry here is too loosely regulated in this regard compared to the EU and are abusing the hell out of us, thus the driving force behind this trend.

Similar sort of thing here in NZ. It's become fairly common to see little "2% credit card surcharge" signs (usually handwritten) next to the terminal. However, there's a difference: although you could certainly avoid that surcharge by using cash, you can also avoid it by using the "other card". We have a home-grown card-based system that uses the same terminals and doesn't have any fees. It's common to fall back to that in order to avoid the Visa/Mastercard surcharge.

 

[GalileoSeven]

I do most of my shopping at WalMart now for a few reasons and I prefer the self checkouts, mainly because I want to get in and get out ASAP with a minimum of fuss. And if they're going to have senior citizens wagging their fingers at me at the door asking to see my receipt either way? Then yeah, I'll go with the computer rather than add some checker with a DGAF attitude into the mix

 

[Nermal]

There is no specialness in this, no above and beyond - which is what you are tipping for when you get good service.

That reminds me of the "culture clash" when a friend was buying something from an American website. The site asked him to rate the transaction (from 1 to 5 stars). Everything had gone well and the product was exactly as advertised, so he gave it 4 stars. This resulted in a return email demanding to know why he hadn't given them 5 stars.

It seems that in the US, doing everything "normally" should result in 5 stars. But then how do you indicate going above and beyond? You can't give them 6 stars. Whereas outside the US - or at least in certain countries - 3 stars is "good", 4 is "great", and 5 is "you really moved heaven and earth for me".

 

[eyoungren]

That reminds me of the "culture clash" when a friend was buying something from an American website. The site asked him to rate the transaction (from 1 to 5 stars). Everything had gone well and the product was exactly as advertised, so he gave it 4 stars. This resulted in a return email demanding to know why he hadn't given them 5 stars.

It seems that in the US, doing everything "normally" should result in 5 stars. But then how do you indicate going above and beyond? You can't give them 6 stars. Whereas outside the US - or at least in certain countries - 3 stars is "good", 4 is "great", and 5 is "you really moved heaven and earth for me".

Yeah, 'less than perfect' is generally what four stars represents here (the US). And a lot of self-absorbed people can't handle any insinuation that they were less than that. But perfect means perfect and no one is perfect, even if service is outstanding. So I get your point.

That's America for you. We're 'exceptional' and can't stand being told we aren't.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I never fill out those customer surveys.
I’m not here to do marketing for your company thanks.
You need to pay me for my time.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Yeah, 'less than perfect' is generally what four start represents here (the US). And a lot of self-absorbed people can't handle any insinuation that the were less than that. But perfect means perfect and no one is perfect, even if service is outstanding. So I get your point.

That's America for you. We're 'exceptional' and can't stand being told we aren't.

That reminds me of what the English teacher said in my senior year of high school. He never grades ANYONE 100 on a paper because nothing is ever perfect. The highest he will typically give is, I think he said 98, maybe 99 if it was truly exceptional, but never, ever, 100. That made a couple of my classmates who were looking to maintain a 4.0 GPA very upset.

 

[fanboy-ish]

When I go to the supermarket I purposedly choose the staffed checkout, to prove a point, it's my way of saying "I want to show you that me, as your customer, want those people to be employed", it's a drop in the ocean, I know, but that's what I can do.

When I was younger, and a full-blown misanthrope, I dreamed of a world where I'd just have to interact with machines, then I started, like everyone else, needing to call customer support services and realized that interacting with human beings can be invaluable, in certain situations; the other day, when I received my Kindle, I encountered a problem and Amazon doesn't make it easy to get in touch with a human being, they want you to go through their chat bot that just redirects you to links on their website, I was this close to returning the device, until, after a few tries, I was able to have Amazon call me and solve the problem.

 

[adrianlondon]

I quite like self-checkouts as I often buy things that are reduced due to them being on their sell-by date. I can ensure everything goes through at the correct price. Sure, I can challenge a cashier if they scan something using the original barcode by mistake, but I have to stop them mid flow and get them to re-check carefully.

We're lucky here in Switzerland as the stuff we buy isn't weighed, so I don't get that annoying issue with "unidentified item..." etc warning. As soon as I cycle over to France or Germany though, I'm back to things being weighted. Also, although I can survive in both French and German, the self-service machines all have an "English language" option which makes things a little bit easier.

As for paying ... I use my phone, linked to a few credit cards, for pretty much everything. (I don't wear a watch.)

Here in central Europe almost every place has contactless. Plus, living on the borders of two other countries and regularly shopping in another, it saves me dealing with different currencies. I do have to make sure I'm using the best credit card for each purchase though, as some charge quite a bit for foreign currency transactions whereas some charge nothing extra.

 

[eyoungren]

When I go to the supermarket I purposedly choose the staffed checkout, to prove a point, it's my way of saying "I want to show you that me, as your customer, want those people to be employed", it's a drop in the ocean, I know, but that's what I can do.

When I was younger, and a full-blown misanthrope, I dreamed of a world where I'd just have to interact with machines, then I started, like everyone else, needing to call customer support services and realized that interacting with human beings can be invaluable, in certain situations; the other day, when I received my Kindle, I encountered a problem and Amazon doesn't make it easy to get in touch with a human being, they want you to go through their chat bot that just redirects you to links on their website, I was this close to returning the device, until, after a few tries, I was able to have Amazon call me and solve the problem.

I believe in human interaction, particularly when there is something you cannot get done yourself. The other day, dealing with our doctor's office in person helped a matter of some concern to us. Dealing with people is often a better way to go.

But, for me, not with self-checkout. There are things I can do on my own that I don't need to have an interaction with others for. Self-checkout is one of those things. Dealing with my mobile carrier is another.

It's really just a situational thing. More and more, customer support is designed to deal with a company's problem. And if you understand that YOU are the problem the company wants to get rid of, then you understand why it's so hard to get a hold of someone to help you. It's by design, to get rid of you as fast and as quickly as possible or avoid having to deal with you altogether. A company loses money having to support you or solve your problem with the company. Ergo, make the problem go away by preventing contact.

 

[Kung]

That's America for you. We're 'exceptional' and can't stand being told we aren't.

Well, I *am* exceptional! Mommy always told me so.



On a serious note...I've started using the 4-star thing recently; visited the UK in May, and somehow engaged in a discussion about this exact thing.

And you wouldn't believe (or you would, actually lol) the number of times a 4-star rating has resulted in them contacting me. I explained "5-stars means you moved heaven and earth to ensure everything was resolved to my satisfaction. I bought and received a product...so that means you did your job. No harm meant but...that's fulfilling expectations, not exceeding them."

What bothers me is that peoples' jobs are at risk if I don't essentially tell their bosses (via surveys and the like) that what they did deserved 5 stars. :/

 

[eyoungren]

Well, I *am* exceptional! Mommy always told me so.



On a serious note...I've started using the 4-star thing recently; visited the UK in May, and somehow engaged in a discussion about this exact thing.

And you wouldn't believe (or you would, actually lol) the number of times a 4-star rating has resulted in them contacting me. I explained "5-stars means you moved heaven and earth to ensure everything was resolved to my satisfaction. I bought and received a product...so that means you did your job. No harm meant but...that's fulfilling expectations, not exceeding them."

What bothers me is that peoples' jobs are at risk if I don't essentially tell their bosses (via surveys and the like) that what they did deserved 5 stars. :/

Yeah, I am guilty of the whole 5 star thing too. It's especially prevalent on eBay. However, it also seems to me it doesn't account for everything.

I bought a pair of new pants off eBay on Friday (12/1/23). Seller has a 100% rating. Now, I was not expecting them to move over the weekend, but I did get a UPS tracking number on Sunday (12/3/23). Seller is sending ground and eBay's estimated delivery window is Friday (12/8/23). Did it ship Monday (12/4/23)? No. Did it ship Tuesday? No. Late Wednesday it gets dropped off at UPS.

Now it's Christmas season and this is ground. Two days for ground service to meet the estimated delivery date? From Montana to Phoenix? Crazy!

It did get delivered on time, if you want to call around 6pm 'on time'. But a couple things I deduce here. Seller, probably created a label on Sunday because the system was bugging about shipping. Then, three days later the shipper finally manages to make it to UPS to ship the package. As late as they could possibly do it and still not violate eBay's estimated delivery date. I get life, I get snow, I get all that. But three days after creating a shipping label?

I gave the seller 5-stars because I didn't want to deal with them any further. I will never buy from that seller again. They met the requirements, but took their sweet time doing it.

 

[Herdfan]

What bothers me is that peoples' jobs are at risk if I don't essentially tell their bosses (via surveys and the like) that what they did deserved 5 stars. :/

Yes, auto dealers are like this. The manufacturer sends out the surveys and if the dealer doesn't get at least 9's out of 10's then they get to have a nice conversation with the DM. Even 8's are bad which is a "B".

A dealer that I used to go to got busted because they were having the customers bring the surveys back to them for a 10% discount on an oil change. They would then throw out the bad ones and send the good ones in.

 

[Huntn]

Yeah, I am guilty of the whole 5 star thing too. It's especially prevalent on eBay. However, it also seems to me it doesn't account for everything.

I bought a pair of new pants off eBay on Friday (12/1/23). Seller has a 100% rating. Now, I was not expecting them to move over the weekend, but I did get a UPS tracking number on Sunday (12/3/23). Seller is sending ground and eBay's estimated delivery window is Friday (12/8/23). Did it ship Monday (12/4/23)? No. Did it ship Tuesday? No. Late Wednesday it gets dropped off at UPS.

Now it's Christmas season and this is ground. Two days for ground service to meet the estimated delivery date? From Montana to Phoenix? Crazy!

It did get delivered on time, if you want to call around 6pm 'on time'. But a couple things I deduce here. Seller, probably created a label on Sunday because the system was bugging about shipping. Then, three days later the shipper finally manages to make it to UPS to ship the package. As late as they could possibly do it and still not violate eBay's estimated delivery date. I get life, I get snow, I get all that. But three days after creating a shipping label?

I gave the seller 5-stars because I didn't want to deal with them any further. I will never buy from that seller again. They met the requirements, but took their sweet time doing it.

Amazon ratings are easily suspect. Merchants regularly bribe good reviews.

 

[Nermal]

Amazon ratings are easily suspect. Merchants regularly bribe good reviews.

I bought something from AliExpress once and they sent me the wrong item. "We'll replace it for free, and I hope you'll still give us a 5-star review!"

Of course, I didn't give them a 5-star review. And they "punished" me by not sending the replacement.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If what is basically standard service is supposed to merit a five star rating (on Amazon and similar organisations) how is one supposed to signal that the service received exceeded expectations and was actually excellent?

 

[eyoungren]

If what is basically standard service is supposed to merit a five star rating (on Amazon and similar organisations) how is one supposed to signal that the service received exceeded expectations and was actually excellent?

That's kind of the idea. Sellers are gaming the system. They want buyers to assume that they got that fifth star because their service was indeed excellent (when it wasn't). People buy into that, subconsciously or not. And four is better than five, so if you see a seller with five stars you're likely going to choose them even if it doesn't mean a thing more than sellers with four stars.

Because people assume.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That's kind of the idea. Sellers are gaming the system. They want buyers to assume that they got that fifth star because their service was indeed excellent (when it wasn't). People buy into that, subconsciously or not. And four is better than five, so if you see a seller with five stars you're likely going to choose them even if it doesn't mean a thing more than sellers with four stars.

Because people assume.

If everyone (well, almost everyone) is ranked at (or, expects to be ranked at) five stars, how can you tell the really good sellers from the mediocre ones?

Geographically, and culturally, I'm European, (and, moreover, I used to be a teacher, which meant a lot of experience grading student essays and term papers), and thus, I have no difficulty in not awarding the highest mark, or grade, to everyone, especially if they do not merit it, on the grounds of goods or services.

My internal mental marking system is that one awards three stars when everything is (or has been) perfectly fine, the service was as expected and ordered, and paid for, and the goods (or service) was/were delivered without any problems, and thus, there are no complaints; it is perfectly adequate, there are no complaints, but there is nothing extra or worth noting, nothing special to this exchange. A classic C, in other words.

Fours stars is good, a grade that signals that this is better than average, or, that the product is particularly good, or has been delivered promptly, efficiently and/or with courtesy; what one would have graded, or classed, or ranked, as a B.

Five stars means something well beyond the standard norm, the delivery of exceedingly good products or service, something almost exceptional - in quality or standards. In other words, an A.

Now, I cannot conceive of a universe where every exchange of goods and servcies gets to be ranked - and worse, expects to be ranked - as excellent and exceptional, for that is not how things work, especially in the profit driven world of commercial transactions.

 

[eyoungren]

If everyone (well, almost everyone) is ranked at (or, expects to be ranked at) five stars, how can you tell the really good sellers from the mediocre ones?

Which again, is the point. Sellers do not want you to be able to tell. Would you buy from a mediocre seller if you new another one could deliver the exact same and do a better job at it?

Obfuscation. You won't know until you actually buy, and at that point they have your money. Sure, you can post a mediocre rating once you find out they actually are mediocre, but then you're now dealing with any of the fallout of that the seller chooses to drop on your head.

Now, I cannot conceive of a universe where every exchange of goods and servcies gets to be ranked - and worse, expects to be ranked - as excellent and exceptional, for that is not how things work, especially in the profit driven world of commercial transactions.

Totally agree. It's not how it works. But they want you to believe it does because that keeps fooling people into giving them money.

 

[Nermal]

Yep, some sellers do really dodgy things. I know someone who bought an item for a specific purpose. The description implied - but didn't explicitly state - that it could be used for that task. It turns out that it wasn't suitable.

He posted a review, and it was probably fair: I think he gave it around three or four stars because it did do what it advertised, but he noted in the comments that it didn't accomplish what he wanted (his intention was to warn other people so that they didn't waste their money).

The vendor saw the review and offered him a refund. He returned the product, got the refund... and they deleted the review "because they're customer reviews and you're not a customer any more".

 

[eyoungren]

Yep, some sellers do really dodgy things. I know someone who bought an item for a specific purpose. The description implied - but didn't explicitly state - that it could be used for that task. It turns out that it wasn't suitable.

He posted a review, and it was probably fair: I think he gave it around three or four stars because it did do what it advertised, but he noted in the comments that it didn't accomplish what he wanted (his intention was to warn other people so that they didn't waste their money).

The vendor saw the review and offered him a refund. He returned the product, got the refund... and they deleted the review "because they're customer reviews and you're not a customer any more".

Sounds about right…SMH!

 

[Huntn]

If what is basically standard service is supposed to merit a five star rating (on Amazon and similar organisations) how is one supposed to signal that the service received exceeded expectations and was actually excellent?

My impression is that a 5 star rating signals you are completely satisfied with your purchase.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My impression is that a 5 star rating signals you are completely satisfied with your purchase.

Not in Europe.

In Europe, or the UK, a three star rating means "this is fine, no problems, no complaints, but nothing special, everything is as it should be", while a four star rating indicates that you are pleased - that this is, or has been, better than average - with the transaction or exchange.

Five stars means excellent.

Why should one give, assign, award, five stars to an average, - although perfectly satisfactory - exchange of goods, or services?

 

[adrianlondon]

5 stars = perfectly happy, things all went well, would use this company again
4 stars = was ok, would use them again unless somewhere else was cheaper
3 stars = meh, you forced me to review so this is what you get
2 stars = pile of crap - would not use this company again
1 star = bribe me to take this review down

 

[Huntn]

Not in Europe.

In Europe, or the UK, a three star rating means "this is fine, no problems, no complaints, but nothing special, everything is as it should be", while a four star rating indicates that you are pleased - that this is, or has been, better than average - with the transaction or exchange.

Five stars means excellent.

Why should one give, assign, award, five stars to an average, - although perfectly satisfactory - exchange of goods, or services?

Individual perspective. For an item you purchase, let’s say a tool, that performs as it should, this is a 5 out of 5 for me, unless it breaks quickly, which would drop the rating significantly. This is why I hold off on my reviews for most purchases. Customer service is different. Even if I said, great customer service, if the product is sub standard, it is sub standard, unless it was a fluke, first one substandard, replacement is better.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Individual perspective.

Cultural and continental perspective, not just individual.

I doubt that you would find anyone in Europe who would rate a standard commercial exchange or transaction with five stars.

If it is satisfactory, it gets three, perhaps, four.

If it is excellent, or, in any way, outstanding, it receives five.

Giving everyone a "five star rating", or grade, works only on the assumption that everyone, and everything is superb, which, of course, is not the case.

And assuming that it was (and is) the case, it does not allow for acknowledgement of the truly superb, of the genuinely outstanding, not least, because, if everyone receives a grade of "excellent", how are the truly superlative performers supposed to be acknowledged or recognised?