Sony's new line of "Full-Frame Compact" E-Mount Cameras...

[gkarris]

Sony is taking their APS-C line of bodies and putting a Full-Frame Sensor in them...

I got a used A6000 for cheap and love it, now the A7c is gonna have the same body but be FF!!!

Nail in the coffin for Micro Four Thirds?

CONFIRMED: The next new Full Frame E-mount compact camera will be named “Sony A7c” – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[Ray2]

It’s a nail in the coffin of people who don’t mind a camera they hate to use. Terrible ergonomics, fiddly control set, terrible balance with just about the entire line of obese FE lenses. I think the m43 folks know exactly what they’re doing. Photography as opposed to being suckers for marketing departments.

 

[Clix Pix]

I think this will be very interesting..... The popup EVF is from Sony's very popular RX100 line of compact cameras, and using one with a camera that has a full-frame sensor should be a different experience! Sony lenses are very good, at least the ones I've used, and if they manage to pull off a successful line of smaller native lenses specifically for the smaller bodies, that will be serious competition for other camera brands. I'm wondering now whether or not this was part of the reason that Olympus decided to close up shop, as they could see that the m4/3 cameras were already declining in popularity and that the arrival of Sony's new body and lenses would definitely have an impact on the market. This thing isn't coming out of nowhere; probably there have been rumors among the camera industry folks for some time now.

As for the target market: someone who buys one of these cameras is probably going to be using it for travel or for "vlogging" and such, and they won't be hanging the camera body off a large, long zoom lens mounted on a tripod. Since the camera body is still an e-mount, though, theoretically someone could do just that if they wanted. This is all very intriguing and I'm looking forward to the actual announcement and release of this new camera and accompanying lenses! Who knows, maybe my A7R IV will get a little brother or sister in a few months....

 

[whiteonline]

It’s a nail in the coffin of people who don’t mind a camera they hate to use. Terrible ergonomics, fiddly control set, terrible balance with just about the entire line of obese FE lenses. I think the m43 folks know exactly what they’re doing. Photography as opposed to being suckers for marketing departments.

I think that’s a bit harsh. It’s obviously that Sony needs to improve their offerings in light of increased mirrorless competition, and committing different form factors to full-frame is a smart idea.
There are lenses that will pair nicely with smaller bodies, such as the Samyang 35mm f/2.8.

I’m a Nikon guy (Z 7/Df), so no fandom here.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I have heard others complain about Sony’s ergonomics and menus, but I figure that’s just a personal preference thing. Now, if you want a stills camera that feels great in-hand, then I do tend to think that this body might be a bit of a struggle, at least with bigger FF E-mount lenses. I will even admit that my E-M5iii was a step backward in ergonomics versus the G9, but I was able to accept that trade-off for the lighter weight. My E-M5 and 4 prime lenses combined weigh less than 2lbs, and that’s with the caps and hoods—and coincidentally all that gear also costs less than this body alone. To me, it’s hard to say this would kill compact M43, as the price disparity is a major barrier. As a hobbyist, I can’t see myself ever paying $2k for a body. I’d have to be doing this for a living to consider that, and if that were the case, I would go and buy a gripped body.

Maybe Sony thinks they can get pro vloggers to buy this, and for that market, this just might work well.

 

[MacNut]

M43 is dead no matter what once Olympus goes under. Sony has the lens lineup for E mount that will be tempting. One mount fits all.

 

[Clix Pix]

This will definitely expand Sony's lens lineup even more when they add in compact, smaller, lighter weight lenses, and that could appeal to a lot of current and prospective users.

 

[robgendreau]

I'm not sure why they're doing this. Consolidating around one lens type? and sensor? The cynic in me thinks it's the razor version of a camera designed to sell FF lenses.

Too bad, I always wanted to own an APS-C A series. But maybe this will be my chance. The one described above seems more like an A7 Lite to me...and at that price doesn't seem to be worth it.

And I actually would be happy if I were Panasonic or Oly. A new GX8 with two lenses, pop up viewfinder, etc is only $600 US. And for most is going to do video just as well if not better (video being more important to the youth these days than still...although also to those of us who have to work from home too I guess).

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I am curious what this compact lens lineup will look like. Will they be cheap, or will they charge a premium for the category? This body isn’t being priced at the bargain level, so it’s hard to say how the lenses will be priced. That’s the point I’m making—it’s a much bigger investment.

Regarding the mount, yes, it’s all E-mount, but it is divided by APS-C and FF lenses. You can use an APS-C lens on a FF body, but in this case you’d get something like 10MP to work with. You either need regular FF glass or this new compact lineup. It’s expensive stuff compared to APS-C and M43.

 

[MacNut]

I'm not sure why they're doing this. Consolidating around one lens type? and sensor? The cynic in me thinks it's the razor version of a camera designed to sell FF lenses.

Too bad, I always wanted to own an APS-C A series. But maybe this will be my chance. The one described above seems more like an A7 Lite to me...and at that price doesn't seem to be worth it.

And I actually would be happy if I were Panasonic or Oly. A new GX8 with two lenses, pop up viewfinder, etc is only $600 US. And for most is going to do video just as well if not better (video being more important to the youth these days than still...although also to those of us who have to work from home too I guess).

Sony has an APS-C sensor. It’s just the same mount as the full frame.

 

[Clix Pix]

Sony has a good lineup mix of FF and APS-C camera bodies right now, and has been using E-Mount for some years now, having started out with APS-C such as the NEX series and then moving on into full-frame a few years ago. Sensor resolutions vary, from the typical 24mm to 42mm (A7R III) to 61mm (A7R IV).

They also have the RX line, which includes the RX100 series of small, "enthusiast" fixed-lens compact cameras (which are technically P&S but the user has full control over them) and the larger "superzoom Bridge" RX10 series (most recent being the RX10 IV). These use a 1-inch sensor. I think resolution is 24mm in the RX10, not sure about the RX100, but may be there as well.

I never used the A-mount cameras so don't know how they handle or how extensive the A-mount lens collection is, but Sony called them SLT rather than DSLR cameras. The A-mount configuration came from Minolta, if I understand correctly, after Sony had purchased that company.

(An aside here: it's interesting how I have come full-circle, as my first couple of SLRs were Minoltas before I then moved on to Nikon, and now in a sense, here I am back again, using Sony gear that has grown and developed from Minolta.)

 

[robgendreau]

Sony has an APS-C sensor. It’s just the same mount as the full frame.

I guess I confused myself...this is apparently a new line, not just model, like the A6400 and A7iii mated and had a baby, with the same outside shell but a FF sensor inside. So maybe not supplanting the APS-C A6400+ line going forward. Hope so.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

I don't agree with the claims of a complicated menu system and difficulty to use the Sony's. I came from Canon (not as a fanboy) and struggled through adapting to the Olympus and Panasonic M43 systems. What struck me was that both had pluses and minuses going for them in regards to my individual use needs for both video and photo capture. I do agree that this effort from Sony, if true is overpriced already and possibly only makes sense for the vlogger and those just starting out with video making.

Moving on to Sony has been less confusing for me as an individual than making a move to Nikon and that was a decision I thought long and hard over at the end of last year as I only had a finite amount of money from some recent work to throw at my move away from the GH5 for video and to get myself a fullframe sensor body again for photography! The Nikon system and physical layouts didn't feel natural to me; they have some great image making gear, but it's not the right fit for me personally. It doesn't mean I have a need to go bagging them as a brand though.

This as a choice by Sony does perplex me a little, I have my already compact a6500 as my main video capture device, very rarely ever needing to use the a7III with an Atomos external recorder for better quality video to be edited by a professional production house. Personally, I still prefer to use my original HD (1920x1080 px) Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera when possible, as I can expand that up to 4K and you would never know!

Having said that, I am one of the rarer media capture people that doesn't get bogged down in the minutia of technical detail and is rather much more interested in the fine art of storytelling through visual mediums. Not that the images I share on the POTD thread necessarily elucidate that in the best light all the time!

I still have my Oly E-M5 Mk II and will keep it for my light-painting captures with the Live capture modes being outstanding in this regard for their ability to only add new light to the base exposure. As much as certain people like to bag Oly, they were innovators when nobody else was!

Is M43 dead through this move by Sony? Nah, not in my eyes, yet. Especially as probably well over 85% of camera owners have never seriously printed any of their works, they are never going to notice the difference under normal digital viewing conditions, so for the majority it makes no sense to pay more for slightly more. There will always be those that feel to be better tog's they need better gear and there will of course be those that just have the spare do$h laying about to buy such things on a whim. Good luck to them!

For me, it's not going to affect any choices I make in regards to potential future use gear. I'm all in on the Sony E and FE lens lines as well as the M43 lenses for my BMPCC. Apart from one more FF lens, I am all set as it is. I may be tempted to get a telephoto at some stage in the future too, but probably not actually, I'd rather another piece of Cine glass!

 

[MacNut]

I do question the price point of this new camera. I think they got it wrong in the rumor.

 

[tizeye]

I saw the report a couple days ago and was kind of MEH. It just doesn't excite me. Basically it is the a6000 series grown a little larger to accommodate the FF sensor. You can't cheat the laws of physics...it has to be marginally larger than the 6000. Or you can look at it the other way...an a7 series with the viewfinder lopped off - which is probably more accurate as the lower bodies are the same size.

Currently, I pair my wife's a6000 with my a7rIII and use FF lens with both. Really enjoy the ASP-C 1.5 multiplier which is really the point and you five it up on the a7c look alike. Was toying with upgrading the a6000 but hoping they would introduce a new model that has controls similar to the a7 series. Specifically, separate controls to adjust aperture and shutter when in manual. The other alternative would be to upgrade the a7rIII to the a7rIV as its crop mode is 24 pixel like the sensor on the 6000 series.

 

[gkarris]

Trying to switch to mirrorless and tried many different brands (used). The best ones, in my experience, are Sony and Fuji... I got a used Sony A6000 for $200 used body only recently a used Fuji X-T100 for $325 used body only.

I used the "kit" telephoto lens on both (E 55-210 and Fuji X 50-230). Both have 24mp APS-C sensors.

I took both out for Aviation photos by the Airport Yesterday.

The Fuji does have better out-of-camera picture quality, but the Sony "totally smoked" the Fuji when it came to action photos focusing and exposure. The PQ was pretty close.

I found the Sony EVF to be better and the camera easier to hold...

Seems like Sony has done its homework when it comes to features and usability...

Sony is smart if these "V" lenses will work existing APS-C bodies, those are my next lenses. I'll eventually end up with a Sony Compact Full-Frame Camera, if not, I'll stick with the Sony A6000 series.

I tried a couple of MFT mirrorless (Panasonic and Olympus) - the sensor didn't really hold up to me shooting in low light and cropping...

Gonna keep my Olympus OM-D EM-5 for old time's sake (Olympus was my first dSLR back in the day).

 

[Ray2]

If it hasn’t been picked up already, the evf might not be a pop up. There are images of the top plate and there’s no seams where the evf is. There’s a pop up retraction on the same website the OP linked. No pop up flash a fixed evf. In the pics one can see the very typical Sony eyecup extending out of the back of the camera. No idea if the images are artists conceptions or for real.

No mention of IBIS.

The price is absurd given the street price of an A7III.

I tried to get interested but, like APSC, the lens line will need a lot of work in the reasonably quick (f2) primes area.

Strategically it only makes sense (to me) if Sony discontinues the APSC line. Given they sell boatloads of that line and it likely subsidizes FF, doubtful. Weird but fun keeping an eye on.

 

[gkarris]

If it hasn’t been picked up already, the evf might not be a pop up. There are images of the top plate and there’s no seams where the evf is. There’s a pop up retraction on the same website the OP linked. No pop up flash a fixed evf. In the pics one can see the very typical Sony eyecup extending out of the back of the camera. No idea if the images are artists conceptions or for real.

They're probably using A6600 images which doesn't have a pop-up EVF...

 

[Ish]

Trying to switch to mirrorless and tried many different brands (used). The best ones, in my experience, are Sony and Fuji... I got a used Sony A6000 for $200 used body only recently a used Fuji X-T100 for $325 used body only.

I used the "kit" telephoto lens on both (E 55-210 and Fuji X 50-230). Both have 24mp APS-C sensors.

I took both out for Aviation photos by the Airport Yesterday.

The Fuji does have better out-of-camera picture quality, but the Sony "totally smoked" the Fuji when it came to action photos focusing and exposure. The PQ was pretty close.

I found the Sony EVF to be better and the camera easier to hold...

Seems like Sony has done its homework when it comes to features and usability...

Sony is smart if these "V" lenses will work existing APS-C bodies, those are my next lenses. I'll eventually end up with a Sony Compact Full-Frame Camera, if not, I'll stick with the Sony A6000 series.

I tried a couple of MFT mirrorless (Panasonic and Olympus) - the sensor didn't really hold up to me shooting in low light and cropping...

Gonna keep my Olympus OM-D EM-5 for old time's sake (Olympus was my first dSLR back in the day).

The X-T100 is a very basic Fuji X camera that's best described as "sluggish". You'd be better off with the X-T20 and above. You can find these used for a similar price and I recently bought an almost new one for £499.

 

[gkarris]

The X-T100 is a very basic Fuji X camera that's best described as "sluggish". You'd be better off with the X-T20 and above. You can find these used for a similar price and I recently bought an almost new one for £499.

Thanks, used ones around here go for $500.. Hardly the value a used $200 Sony A6000 goes for...


YAY!

Official Sony teaser: Sony A7c to be announced on September 15!!! – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[Clix Pix]

Wow, September 14th and 15th are going to be big days for Sony fans and Apple fans!!

 

[Ish]

Thanks, used ones around here go for $500.. Hardly the value a used $200 Sony A6000 goes for...

That's a shame. There was a decent jump in autofocus ability between these generations.

 

[gkarris]

New leaked images:

New leaked images of the Sony A7c !!! – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[Clix Pix]

Looks interesting. I can see where for some people, that slow, small kit lens would be useful for traveling.

 

[Ray2]

Not for stills shooters with that flippy display. IBIS is nice. Pricy. I guess there's enough of a market to justify development and production for video.