Surface Neo

[sunapple]

The problem with the new #Surface devices is simple: It's called disconnect. It's all about having an integrated experience across all devices! It's all about software that works perfect with the hardware and this is where #Microsoft fails. Some examples:There is no MS Photos, there is no integrated way to stream content to TVs like with macOS and AppleTV. Such combination just doesn't exist. There is no integrated way to write & read SMS on Windows devices. No way to use a service like FaceTime. (Skype sucks big time). There is no messaging service like iMessage. There are almost no good modern apps available on Windows. No way to make and receive calls by using your phone. No way to use a SmartWatch to unlock your Windows PC.. So the problem is basically that there is no ecosystem. Work on that @Microsoft

Yes, the MS ecosystem is very much incomplete. That's why I think their collaboration with Google on Surface DUO should be interesting to you; it provides the missing functionality that you're talking about.

Windows is the biggest issue here. I have been using it for such a long time and the problem is the lack of good, high quality solutions for many functions that make the whole user experience better.
The device might be impressive, but we should be thinking in how it would integrate with our other computing devices. We should also be thinking about how we would use such a device. What are the usage scenarios that would really make a difference? I am trying hard to find anything I would really use.

Yes, the device is impressive, but it doesn't solve any problems. It just tries to solve problems that don't exist..

The way their product developer is talking about the Surface lineup, it sounds like it was specifically made to fit people's lifestyles. Maybe not yours, but apparently they are thinking about use scenarios...

The same applies to all other devices that Microsoft announced today. When Microsoft improves Windows in a way that makes the user experience great across many different devices, I will be interested. For the moment I don't feel that we are there yet..

I actually think the whole point of the announcements were improved Windows versions like Windows 10X that adapt to different devices and screens. The have been trying this since Windows 8 with its touch support. It resulted in some cross-platform apps, like Apple is now doing with ported iOS apps on macOS if I'm not mistaken.

Their Surface hardware is impressive, but it's still very much about software for MS.

 

[SteveJUAE]

You have to wait 3 months for the SL3/SP7?

Hmmm, I appreciate folks mentioning the software issues with the Pro X's Arm chip. I may hold off then and possibly get the 15" SL3 and a wacom to hold me over. Just wondering how much horse power the SL3's Ryzen 11 GPU has?

Hoping the Neo and Duo will not be ridiculously expensive.

Yep it takes a few months before MS products are released worldwide although could order from B&H as they do ship internationally

 

[LeeW]

Umm it's been widely accepted that Adobe products run better in Windows for example

Sorry, no idea why you are quoting me in relation to you comment.

 

[jrichards1408]

Sorry, no idea why you are quoting me in relation to you comment.

You said windows apps are stucky compared to the same version on Osx

 

[LeeW]

You said windows apps are stucky compared to the same version on Osx

Ah, ok. Well, what I actually said was this:

I have installed identical apps on Windows that I have on macOS and sorry but they are just sucky on Windows every time.

Side by side comparison on identical apps they are simply poor on Windows compared to macOS, every time.

I cant say anything about Adobe, never use them.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The problem with the new #Surface devices is simple: It's called disconnect. It's all about having an integrated experience across all devices! It's all about software that works perfect with the hardware and this is where #Microsoft fails. Some examples:There is no MS Photos, there is no integrated way to stream content to TVs like with macOS and AppleTV. Such combination just doesn't exist. There is no integrated way to write & read SMS on Windows devices. No way to use a service like FaceTime. (Skype sucks big time). There is no messaging service like iMessage. There are almost no good modern apps available on Windows. No way to make and receive calls by using your phone. No way to use a SmartWatch to unlock your Windows PC.. So the problem is basically that there is no ecosystem. Work on that @Microsoft

Windows is the biggest issue here. I have been using it for such a long time and the problem is the lack of good, high quality solutions for many functions that make the whole user experience better.
The device might be impressive, but we should be thinking in how it would integrate with our other computing devices. We should also be thinking about how we would use such a device. What are the usage scenarios that would really make a difference? I am trying hard to find anything I would really use.

Yes, the device is impressive, but it doesn't solve any problems. It just tries to solve problems that don't exist..

The same applies to all other devices that Microsoft announced today. When Microsoft improves Windows in a way that makes the user experience great across many different devices, I will be interested. For the moment I don't feel that we are there yet..

I'm not sure the last time you used Windows but it must of been a long time

W10 has Photos it synchs across all devices and platforms, its actually annoying at time as by the time you have taken a pic on your phone and gone to gallery its already in photo's lol, same for screenshots and clips

Until very recently Apple prohibited you from mirroring to your TV and was a distinct advantage of W10 or Android and negated the reason to have Apple TV as an intermediate device to stream. W10 Laptops and Android phones have this ability built in

You have been able to read and write sms on W10 for sometime now using Cortana across devices and is now greatly improved and will include dialling shortly as noted by MS

You may not like Skype and thats fine but it is far more widely accept especially by businesses and of course you can speak to anyone on multiple platforms unlike Facetime that is device specific and virtually useless outside a couple of countries

The same for Imessage it only has appeal in limited countries and limited devices for most in the world its a non feature

As for Apps this is Apple logic speaking W10 has Apps and Progs with the biggest selection of all platforms I have seen this before where one chap thought the Win store was the only source of software LOL. There is good reason 90% of the world uses windows and there is no lack of modern software

As for unlocking which requires another Apple purchase with any good W10 laptop has windows Hello means you just look at it. Why Apple have not integrated this from thier phones to Macs seems very odd

I agree the integration on some features is a little more polished with Apple but its trivial difference like airdrop that has severe limitations on file types or mixed files, so if you only transfer photo's it may seem more convenient on face value

 

[jrichards1408]

Ah, ok. Well, what I actually said was this:



Side by side comparison on identical apps they are simply poor on Windows compared to macOS, every time.

I cant say anything about Adobe, never use them.

What apps are you referring to? I've tried chrome. Microsoft Office. Android studio. Evernote Spotify and of course Adobe apps and bar Adobe. The others run exactly the same as in Osx and in Windows.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Umm it's been widely accepted that Adobe products run better in Windows for example

And Excel

 

[jrichards1408]

And Excel

Yea lol not sure what apps he says runs sucky

 

[LeeW]

Oh, lol, slap my thighs. Whatever, don't have time to play the Windows vs macOS games. My opinion, I don't need to justify it, clearly it will be wrong and you know better.

 

[Queen6]

Yep it takes a few months before MS products are released worldwide although could order from B&H as they do ship internationally

I'm ok with the wait as it gives MS time to work out the manufacturing kinks and we'll get more options. Surface Pro X interests. Surface Neo really appeals, can see a lot of use cases. 15" SL3 prefer more performance, equally interested to see one, and could easily see myself with one should the mobility need change, certainly be looking at how the top tier CPU/GPU performs versus the 15" SB2.

Like to have seen an update to Surface Book, that said still one of the best tech events in a long time; decent updates, interesting & innovative new products, very little flab or slobbering over themselves...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

I will say unlike the other foldable products, the neo is looking like something I could enjoy using and taking advantage. Of course we have to wait a year

 

[Queen6]

I will say unlike the other foldable products, the neo is looking like something I could enjoy using and taking advantage. Of course we have to wait a year

Me too, I really enjoy my UMPC 2in1 as it's also a premium device, however the Neo does rather usurp as it offers duel screens and a physical keyboard. Will certainly be following the progress keenly...

Irrespective of the doubters we all know that there will be a rush on such devices as W10X evolves. We've already seen the potential with Lenovo Yoga Book, however we now look to be offered far more robust HW/SW solutions which I would expect to perform as well if not better than my i7-8500Y UMPC.

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Yea lol not sure what apps he says runs sucky

Ironically I quit using the Mac professionally due to the poor implementation of the hardware and software and lack of support. Windows has never been more productive, while Apple is ever more focused on being a lifestyle product focused company, impressing the masses with tricks and bells...

Q-6

 

[LeeW]

Ironically I quit using the Mac professionally due to the poor implementation of the hardware and software and lack of support.

It's all about use case, as a web developer Windows can't touch macOS for its support of the tools I use and coming so close to a Linux server environment I don't need to use workarounds or VM's and the like to have synergy. I tried so hard to stick with Windows but it just couldn't match macOS for what I do. Not that I am giving up Windows, just for day to day work.

 

[petvas]

I'm not sure the last time you used Windows but it must of been a long time

Well, I am still using Windows every day..

W10 has Photos it synchs across all devices and platforms, its actually annoying at time as by the time you have taken a pic on your phone and gone to gallery its already in photo's lol, same for screenshots and clips

Photos syncs only if you use Onedrive and it doesn't work well. It is still very buggy and it cannot be compared with Apple Photos or Google Photos. It just doesn't work. You cannot even create an album directly in the cloud, unless you use OneDrive first. The way it works is amateur work and it shows..Also, on mobile there is no Photos app. You have to use OneDrive and it sucks.

Until very recently Apple prohibited you from mirroring to your TV and was a distinct advantage of W10 or Android and negated the reason to have Apple TV as an intermediate device to stream. W10 Laptops and Android phones have this ability built in

Miracast never worked for me. It streams very specific content and many times it will stop working during playback or it will lose the connection. Not a good solution! Miracast and DLNA streaming in Windows 10 sucks. It is another example of a feature that on paper is great but in reality doesn't work.

You have been able to read and write sms on W10 for sometime now using Cortana across devices and is now greatly improved and will include dialling shortly as noted by MS

I need an interface, an app that will show my SMS, just like iMessage. Cortana doesn't do that. It is also not available on all countries..

You may not like Skype and thats fine but it is far more widely accept especially by businesses and of course you can speak to anyone on multiple platforms unlike Facetime that is device specific and virtually useless outside a couple of countries

The same for Imessage it only has appeal in limited countries and limited devices for most in the world its a non feature

You really don't know that Skype for Business is something completely different than Skype for consumers? Also, it has been discontinued and it MS Teams is the new business communications tool. Skype for consumers works bad. It might be widely available but it has bad quality video and audio. I experience it every day with different people from different countries..

As for Apps this is Apple logic speaking W10 has Apps and Progs with the biggest selection of all platforms I have seen this before where one chap thought the Win store was the only source of software LOL. There is good reason 90% of the world uses windows and there is no lack of modern software

Well, there is no quality software available for consumers! Businesses of course use Windows because it is much cheaper and is tailored for the needs of Enterprises.

 

[Falhófnir]

Well, there is no quality software available for consumers!

You can't be serious with that lol, if it exists the chances are it exists for Windows, if it exists for Mac chances are it's a half-assed port of the Windows version... this is why Apple are trying to tap into the iOS developer community with marzipan/ catalyst to give Mac software a shot in the arm.

 

[maflynn]

Well, there is no quality software available for consumers!

Sometimes your desire to defend mac stuff/knock windows, borders on the ludicrous. So now you're postulating that the windows platform has zero consumer applications that are considered quality?

So stuff like Adobe Photoshop Elements, Microsoft Word, and Outlook don't exist for windows? Speaking of email clients, there's Thunderbird, Freebird eM client. All great email apps. Don't want to use MS products, you can move on to LibraOffice.

Don't like the built in photos app there's a huge inventory of great apps, (I already mentioned Pse), but there's also Lightroom (yes consumers use this), AlienSkin Exposure, Affinity Photo, Luminar

Oh, and then there's games - Talk about an embarrassment of riches, This is one category where the difference is so stark. I've been a Mac user since forever and games were and are one of the weakest parts to the Mac platform. Its basically an order of magnitude difference of what's available to play on the PC vs. the Mac. Very few triple A games makes it over to the Mac, but are on available on windows the same day (or even earlier) then consoles.

You seem to go out of your way to passively aggressively knock windows/pcs. I get it, we're on an Apple fan site, and many people hate windows, some for very good reasons, but I can't say that windows having no quality software is remotely considered one of them.

I'll reiterate what I keep saying, and at the risk of beating a dead horse, there's not one perfect platform. Macs have a lot of things going for them, its a great platform, but windows does as well. Both platforms have their issues and shortcomings. Its personal preference and where the pros vs cons line up for each person. Yet we see so many people try to make this into a near religious argument stating their view is the righteous one and those on the other side need to see the light.

Back to the MS surface neo subject matter (man I didn't think my post was going to be getting long), but bummed out that the status of the Neo is such we have to wait a year, especially since they had developed this technology many years ago. Oh well, hopefully the time will allow MS to nail down the details.
I'm curious to see how/why Ms decided to fork MS Windows into windows X. I hope

 

[petvas]

Sometimes your desire to defend mac stuff/knock windows, borders on the ludicrous. So now you're postulating that the windows platform has zero consumer applications that are considered quality?

So stuff like Adobe Photoshop Elements, Microsoft Word, and Outlook don't exist for windows? Speaking of email clients, there's Thunderbird, Freebird eM client. All great email apps. Don't want to use MS products, you can move on to LibraOffice.

Don't like the built in photos app there's a huge inventory of great apps, (I already mentioned Pse), but there's also Lightroom (yes consumers use this), AlienSkin Exposure, Affinity Photo, Luminar

Oh, and then there's games - Talk about an embarrassment of riches, This is one category where the difference is so stark. I've been a Mac user since forever and games were and are one of the weakest parts to the Mac platform. Its basically an order of magnitude difference of what's available to play on the PC vs. the Mac. Very few triple A games makes it over to the Mac, but are on available on windows the same day (or even earlier) then consoles.

You seem to go out of your way to passively aggressively knock windows/pcs. I get it, we're on an Apple fan site, and many people hate windows, some for very good reasons, but I can't say that windows having no quality software is remotely considered one of them.

I'll reiterate what I keep saying, and at the risk of beating a dead horse, there's not one perfect platform. Macs have a lot of things going for them, its a great platform, but windows does as well. Both platforms have their issues and shortcomings. Its personal preference and where the pros vs cons line up for each person. Yet we see so many people try to make this into a near religious argument stating their view is the righteous one and those on the other side need to see the light.

Back to the MS surface neo subject matter (man I didn't think my post was going to be getting long), but bummed out that the status of the Neo is such we have to wait a year, especially since they had developed this technology many years ago. Oh well, hopefully the time will allow MS to nail down the details.
I'm curious to see how/why Ms decided to fork MS Windows into windows X. I hope

Maybe I should rephrase. Of course there are zillions of apps for Windows, but the good ones are Win32 based. They lack polish and most of them do not work well with HiDPI displays.

Of course there is no perfect platform. I am just saying that the most complete platform is Apple's..
When I used Windows privately I had many issues with the following services and I haven't found a good solution:

• Good integrated backup, like Time Machine (Acronis comes to mind but it doesn't work as well)
• Great Photos App, that sync with ALL of my devices (MS Photos doesn't do that! OneDrive sync is not good enough and there is no iOS/Android Photos App)
• Great ToDo App like Things or Omnifocus (again, the available apps are mediocre
• A browser with smooth scrolling and great text rendering like Safari (Edge was the closest)

These issues do not go away because Microsoft announced new devices for the end of 2020 (14 months from now!!!)

As far as Outlook concerns, I used to love it, but its performance is really bad. Windows lacks polish and that is what is also bothering me. Others might not see it this way and it's ok. We have a choice and that is great!

 

[maflynn]

Maybe I should rephrase. Of course there are zillions of apps for Windows, but the good ones are Win32 based. They lack polish and most of them do not work well with HiDPI displays.

You seem to be moving the goal posts, you said quality apps, now you're stating scaling? I'll not disagree that window's scaling is inferior to macOS, but it seems you're moving the goalposts. None of your prior posts were commenting on how poor apps looked were on windows vs. macos

I am just saying that the most complete platform is Apple's..

For you, but you not for everyone. Your needs and definitions are not the same for others, like my earlier post, if someone is a gamer then the most complete platform is windows.

When I used Windows privately I had many issues with the following services and I haven't found a good solution:

• Good integrated backup, like Time Machine (Acronis comes to mind but it doesn't work as well)
• Great Photos App, that sync with ALL of my devices (MS Photos doesn't do that! OneDrive sync is not good enough and there is no iOS/Android Photos App)
• Great ToDo App like Things or Omnifocus (again, the available apps are mediocre
• A browser with smooth scrolling and great text rendering like Safari (Edge was the closest)

You're projecting your issues as its a problem for everyone.

• Acronis works very well, but granted its not timemachine.
• Lightroom mobile syncs across mobile devices and is much more powerful then Apple's photo apps
• Wunderlust, OneNote MS To-Do, Trello are very good apps
• I've never had issues with scrolling, and never really heard of many people complaining. As for text rendering, I will say text rendering in excel for windows is so much better then macOS. I constantly have to zoom the text to 125% on the mac just to see the text. MS Mail renders the text too small where as for windows its perfect.

My outlook on my new-ish Thinkpad is great and fast, Likewise, on my nearly ancient workstation that is over 5 years old. I'd say when you had your PC you may not have had configured optimally or had other issues that caused issues.

 

[jrichards1408]

It's all about use case, as a web developer Windows can't touch macOS for its support of the tools I use and coming so close to a Linux server environment I don't need to use workarounds or VM's and the like to have synergy. I tried so hard to stick with Windows but it just couldn't match macOS for what I do. Not that I am giving up Windows, just for day to day work.

Depends what web developed u do. Good luck using Osx on. Net framework..

 

[petvas]

For me it's all about quality. It's like with every other thing in life. There are people that see a difference when the buy a pair of shoes for 500$, compared to the 50$ shoes at the corner store. Others don't see or care about the difference.
Of course you can do everything in Windows. Maybe even more than in macOS, but there is a distinct quality difference in almost everything. At least everything I care about is done better and with more elegance in macOS compared to Windows. The tight integration and the great Apple ecosystem are the biggest reasons for me to be using Apple products. I can see why things are done the way they are and I see a benefit and the quality difference. Attention to detail is something that is missing from the Microsoft platform. You can choose not to care (or you don't see it), but there is a quality difference.
It might sound arrogant, but to be honest I don't care. I choose to use a technology because it suits me, not others. I tried Windows and for my use case they do not offer the same level of quality. Windows is inferior in every respect (in the categories that matter to me) and I chose not to use it privately anymore..You can of course argue about features and programs that are available on Windows, but at the end of the day Windows is like Android: A mess

 

[LeeW]

Good luck using Osx on. Net framework..

You are really making yourself look silly now.

 

[jrichards1408]

You are really making yourself look silly now.

How?. Net ide runs better on a Windows machine then in Osx

 

[LeeW]

How?. Net ide runs better on a Windows machine then in Osx

Of course it does, why would anyone want to use .net in any focused way using a mac. I don't use .net, never said I did, so again, you point is irrelevant in response to my comment.