Surface Pro X

[Dave245]

Dave as you know until recently you though all Win10 apps/progs were all in the MS store and not the 100000's elsewhere ie the biggest library available

Here's a link on some users postings on works/does not work doubt there will be many you or I use

Surface Pro X Application Support

Home Surface Pro X Application Support Spreadsheet,Admins Welcome to the Surface Pro X application support spreadsheet! Here you can find out which applications run great (and also those that don't!) on the Surface Pro X. All of this information can be found in the multiple sheets, found at the...

docs.google.com

Issues with reading, send msg or calls etc is an Iphone issue not the SPX, you should be fine with Samsung Android device your thinking about

Dropbox may be a shame for some but many now have up to 6 family members with 1TB free each on onedrive with secure folders, PC back-up and works across all platforms and devices

I doubt for your usage there would be issues, but I thought you were going down SB3 route

Yea I did, I think because I’ve been so use to Apple devices that it was all new and I didn’t give the Surface enough time or enough of a chance.
I’m looking around while waiting for the Surface Book 3 to be announced, I like the look of both devices.

I can’t see the Pro X in person at the moment as there are no stores open near where I live (in the U.K) due to the Covid19 issue.

The Book 3 is still on my list, I’m just browsing while I wait

 

[fokmik]

a lot of devel will join full power for ARM full support after Apple next year will bring the first macs with ARM

 

[maflynn]

a lot of devel will join full power for ARM full support after Apple next year will bring the first macs with ARM

More likely just compile their iOS apps to run under macOS. I don't see developers flocking to Apple just because they're embracing ARM, quite the opposite. Developers will wait and see how things progress before spending what little time and money they have on a niche platform.

 

[Falhófnir]

More likely just compile their iOS apps to run under macOS. I don't see developers flocking to Apple just because they're embracing ARM, quite the opposite. Developers will wait and see how things progress before spending what little time and money they have on a niche platform.

For some things it might give the Mac a shot in the arm (NPI) - for example if game studios are able to target a combined market of iPads and Macs (relatively high volume models similar to the MBA) with current-console levels of power through Apple Arcade, it might just be a worthwhile market to port semi-current games as a second priority after PC and XBOX/ Playstation with some regularity. Other than that it will likely make little difference, if it's not currently worth the while to port your software to Mac it still won't be, if it is, I doubt there's that much more effort involved in the grand scheme of things, so it will remain so.

 

[c0ppo]

Developing games for Linux isn't worth it. But now with Proton, most of games just work, so it's not a big issue.
Developing games for Mac is way worse then doing the same for Linux. While linux suffers from defragmentation, mac OS is a single entity. But Mac OS practically dropped OpenGL, and it will never support Vulkan.

Metal is really great. But macs are a niche market for gaming, so it doesn't pay off to develop for mac.
Apple isn't interested in gaming. At least not on macs. They make ton of money from gaming on mobile devices, so why would they even bother with gaming on macs?

 

[maflynn]

But Mac OS practically dropped OpenGL, and it will never support Vulkan.

Don't forget that many games 32bit still and so that basically closes the door to many available titles.

 

[c0ppo]

Don't forget that many games 32bit still and so that basically closes the door to many available titles.

Indeed. Totally forgot about that one since I'm no longer on Mac OS.

 

[Alex W.]

better getting the normal pro, the x is gimped vs the normal one btw - owned both and hated the x

 

[Dave245]

After finding out the the Surface Book 3, (when used as a tablet) only has 3.2 hours of battery life. I might be heading into the Surface Pro X direction. Does anyone think there will be an update later this year for the X? or are we likely to see it merge with the Pro 7 style of device and become the Pro 8?

 

[KarmaRocket]

I've been looking at the Surface Pro X as an IPP replacement. I really love the design and think it's the perfect size for my needs (writing, note taking, some coding). IMHO if Microsoft really wants Windows ARM to take off they need to update the SPX every year and have the SQ1 make significant gains like Apple's Ax chips. Especially if they get x86-64 emulation working properly as it will probably require more horsepower.

I haven't seen any rumors of an update for the SPX. Hopefully they don't follow the same update path as the Surface Book and only release something every 2 or so years.

 

[Falhófnir]

I've been looking at the Surface Pro X as an IPP replacement. I really love the design and think it's the perfect size for my needs (writing, note taking, some coding). IMHO if Microsoft really wants Windows ARM to take off they need to update the SPX every year and have the SQ1 make significant gains like Apple's Ax chips. Especially if they get x86-64 emulation working properly as it will probably require more horsepower.

I haven't seen any rumors of an update for the SPX. Hopefully they don't follow the same update path as the Surface Book and only release something every 2 or so years.

In my experience, Microsoft is terrible at picking a strategy and actually sticking with it, putting the resources in to nurture it, etc. At least outside of their main Windows OS. I agree if this platform is going to really stick it needs them to get behind it and push it, rather than their strategy of just throwing stuff out there and seeing if something sticks (as yet nothing has). They seem to be wanting this mainly to be their answer to Chrome OS, but for that to work they need it on cheaper hardware, pronto. The SP X is a good showcase machine, but they also need the Dells HPs and Lenovos to actually fill out the ecosystem and sell in volume.

 

[xraydoc]

After finding out the the Surface Book 3, (when used as a tablet) only has 3.2 hours of battery life. I might be heading into the Surface Pro X direction. Does anyone think there will be an update later this year for the X? or are we likely to see it merge with the Pro 7 style of device and become the Pro 8?

The SB3 and the SPX are very different devices.

The SB3 is a high-performance laptop with a dedicated GPU that can occasionally/temporarily serve as a tablet if you need it to, trading off with diminished functionality (loses USB ports, GPU, SD slot and only has a limited battery).

The SPX is a low-performance ARM processor-based device with all-day, always-on battery life and LTE, but doesn’t run x64 code and runs x86 code in emulation. Many mainstream apps, like Dropbox desktop integration, do not work at all on the SPX.

The Surface Pro line balances the two.

If you were contemplating a Surface Book 3, the SPX shouldn’t even be on your radar (or vice versa), to be honest.

Sounds like what you want is a Surface Pro 7.

 

[Dave245]

The SB3 and the SPX are very different devices.

The SB3 is a high-performance laptop with a dedicated GPU that can occasionally/temporarily serve as a tablet if you need it to, trading off with diminished functionality (loses USB ports, GPU, SD slot and only has a limited battery).

The SPX is a low-performance ARM processor-based device with all-day, always-on battery life and LTE, but doesn’t run x64 code and runs x86 code in emulation. Many mainstream apps, like Dropbox desktop integration, do not work at all on the SPX.

The Surface Pro line balances the two.

If you were contemplating a Surface Book 3, the SPX shouldn’t even be on your radar (or vice versa), to be honest.

Sounds like what you want is a Surface Pro 7.

The reason I got attracted to the Surface Book 3 was because you can take the screen off use it as a tablet, turn it around reattach it and use it in what Microsoft calls "Studio mode" however I also want a great tablet experience!

I don't think I need a huge amount of power. I write a lot, take notes, draw, edit the occasional photo in Pixelmator, web browse and play the odd game (nothing major) usually Sims 4 or Age of Empires. That's not all the while because I mainly have my PS4 for that. Netflix I tend to watch during some relaxing time and usually while watching dinner, I also listen to my Apple Music.

I was thinking about the Surface Book 3 because of its ability to detach the screen, but I was also thinking about the Surface Pro X or just Surface Pro for the ability to use as a tablet a lot of the time.

 

[Silvestru Hosszu]

Hi Dave,

From your description it seems that the sb3 can be the right choice to you if:
(i) do not use the table as standalone for more the aprox 3 hours;
(ii) money is really no object (very expensive compared to similar laptops).
I had the 13'' sb2 and sold it when needed a tb3 capable laptop.
My single regret related to the surface book series was that i did not buy the 15'' model.
My use case was similar to yours and for photo editing in studio mode is far more ok for the 15'' - you have more real estate.
The sb3 is a relatively powerful laptop but it is far from being a real powerhouse.
Its a very good jack of all trades but master of few (I wont say none).

 

[maflynn]

The video is interesting, but unsurprising, but what strikes a chord with me is the seeming lack of commitment of MS to ARM. MS like before seems to just throw this out there to sink or swim on its own with limited help. The emulation is not up to par (yet), its app store is not set up for the owners of the Surface Pro X to easily find apps that can run and they've done little to help developers to write ARM apps. Granted unlike Apple, who is leaving intel platform, MS isn't but the point remains Apple has stepped up to the plate in many ways to ensure success, where as MS has not

 

[mi7chy]

Difference is for Apple it's do or die while for Microsoft it's another product line without the same urgency. Both seem to compete against the Chromebook segment and neither are perfect. Apple might be a little better in performance but not noticeable in day to day use and Microsoft has better features and form factor. For example, if someone needs WWAN and great webcam for on-the-go video conferencing, pen for note taking, touch input, superior keyboard, light weight, etc. the M1 has nothing to offer. That said, Microsoft should put its weight behind pushing for more native Windows on ARM apps. In the end, AMD 5nm mobile Ryzen will likely obsolete the other niche options.

 

[maflynn]

Difference is for Apple it's do or die while for Microsoft it's another product line without the same urgency.

No question the stakes are a lot of higher for apple. The frustrating part for MS, is that they have good ideas and I like some of the directions, but they really don't fully commit. Take UWP, I think if MS handled it different UWP wouldn't have failed, but it was just another initiative that seemed half hearted

 

[The_Interloper]

it was just another initiative that seemed half hearted

So much of Microsoft's output is like this, though. They can make truly great things - their mobile apps are superb, for the most part - but so much of their stuff is just so half-assed.

There are icons, menus and dialog boxes in Windows 10 that date back to XP. Open up Paint or WordPad; now open up Word or Excel. Look at the Copy/Paste icons etc - why are they different? Why does a white window appear in so many areas of the OS when I'm using Dark Mode?

These aren't just UI inconsistencies, these are things they've just never bothered to update. When they designed new icons recently for Mail, Calculator etc why didn't they bother with NotePad, Paint, WordPad etc? These are first-party apps! They just don't care.

Ugh. And the Surface line is a great example - stunning, innovative hardware with the exact same janky OS as on some cheap Atom-powered Chinese laptop. There is almost no advantage or real optimisation I can see from W10 on a Surface; the perceived advantage of both hardware and software from a single manufacturer is non-existent. Again, half-assed.

 

[grmlin]

@The_Interloper some parts of Windows feel like they looked like this when Windows NT/2000 released. Don't really know tbh, but things like the hdd management program are ancient.
So much stuff that's not finished, half baked and ugly. How there is still the old system settings, tons of stuff not supporting the system themes... it's terrible.

While I dislike a lot of things Apple does in MacOS, all in all it's the much more polished system. And it's not even in the same league.

 

[The_Interloper]

things like the hdd management program are ancient.

My goodness, yes...how could I forget about Disk Management? Just look at it:

What is that empty grey line doing at the bottom of the window? It even has seperators on the right-hand side that do nothing. You know they will never fix this. Don't get me wrong, I use Windows every day, but stuff like this...sheesh. It's just so ugly in places. Make an effort, Microsoft, please.

 

[The_Interloper]

And while we're at it...Windows Vista UI elements during the Windows 10 installation process:

SMH. Anyway, back on topic. Surface Pro X.

 

[EastHillWill]

I had a Pro X for a while. Great hardware, typical Windows annoyances. The iPad Pro w/MKB really fills that spot for me at the moment, and I can virtualize Windows on my Mac if/when I need it. I do miss that webcam, though! Glorious 1080.

 

[EastHillWill]

And while we're at it...Windows Vista UI elements during the Windows 10 installation process:

SMH. Anyway, back on topic. Surface Pro X.

Windows 10X is supposed to be a new build without any of the old Windows cruft, correct? So we should never see this mismatched UI nonsense with those devices.

 

[maflynn]

Windows 10X is supposed to be a new build without any of the old Windows cruft, correct? So we should never see this mismatched UI nonsense with those devices.

Yes, but 10x is not for general computer AFAIK, so unless we see what was built in 10x migrate its way into regular windows 10, we'll be living with the inconsistencies for the foreseeable future.

 

[mi7chy]

Lesser of two evils is the old but working UI elements than core fundamentals like device reset on MacOS M1 that bricks the OS, broken palm rejection, etc. How often are you in disk management or look at the initial OS setup screen anyway? Probably fewer than you can count on one hand. Plus, software can improve while hardware is set in stone so you're stuck with mediocre 720p webcam, no touch input, no pen input, no WWAN, no lighter weight, no user upgradable storage, etc. on the M1.