The Car Thread ... !

[cyb3rdud3]

Björn Nyland is another long standing EV youtuber, he is from Norway so a pretty cold climate and basically keeps track of his 1,000 Km challenge. He is a bit more all over the place and not as slick as Kyle but yet very informative on a range of cars.

https://www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I understand. I am assuming that scenario I was referring to is most common for drivers who charge their vehicles along the road system during the winter. The video refers to charging speed of batteries that are nearly discharged and cold. A lot of drivers don't realize that once the vehicle is being driven in very cold ambient temperatures, the battery is not being warmed like when the car is plugged into an electrical outlet. It means that by the time you arrive at the next charging station with the battery nearly discharged below 20%, it is quite possible for it to be colder than its normal operating temperature range.

But some automobiles, including some Tesla's, incorporate a battery pre-conditioning circuit that allows for the battery to be warmed to a certain point, before one arrives to the charging station. A cold battery that is nearly discharged (below 20% of charge state) takes a long time to charge from a discharged state to 80%. According to the video's host, the iD4 lacks such a feature, and this is the reason why he demonstrates what to do if one wants to speed-up the charging time at the station. The host even tells that he has no idea if "yo-yo driving" could reduce the live span of the battery or not. By "yo-yo driving" one of the two iD4s he managed to charge it in a few minutes calmares to the other iD4 (this one took over one hour to charge).

It’s not a situation i’ll ever find myself in thankfully. We don’t do long road trips and the furthest we drive in a day is probably 200 miles on rare occasions. I sometimes drive further for work but wouldn’t take an EV for that.

EV’s are changing massively by the month and even the Q4 we have is out of date now. There are better options but we are more than happy with it. It’s a lovely drive, looks good, interior is nice and it suits our needs perfectly. Not worried about battery longevity as it’s not our car and will only have it another two and half years. We abuse the battery by regularly charging to 100% etc, but hey. For those buying them, it is more of a concern. The heat pump was certainly the best option we had for preconditioning the battery for drives in the colder weather.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I watched several of Kyle's videos, not because I like EV's or not, but because I like to become informed (I enjoy the technical aspects of batteries used for propulsion). After watching his videos I realized that a lot of other EV drivers posting videos about the long period of time it takes to charge their EV batteries, I came to the realization that several of them had no idea that a battery that is cold, plus nearly discharged (below 20%), would take quite a long time to charge up to 80%.

Probably because this scenario is very rare.
So first of all 95% of all charging is done via destination chargers, not DC rapid.
In other words people plug in at work or home overnight (many have a cheap rate tariff on charge overnight) and you forget it. It doesn’t matter if it takes 2 hour, 2 hour or 4 hours to charge. I’m there 8 plus anyway.
So now we just have 5% of total amount of charging left.
So not everyone is in a cold climate.
I don’t know anyone who would run their battery % to less than 20% before stopping to charge.
Many cars have heat pumps. I believe Tesla will automatically precondition the battery as you approach the supercharger it’s taking you to.

So basically you are posting about the 1% user scenario. It is always straight to the edge case with your anti EV posts. It’s a shame as they really are great cars. You are determined to not like them. To educate all of us who actually use them day to day about how they actually work. It seems strange.
If I wanted to know how to photograph the Northern Lights you would be the first person I would ask.
If I wanted to know what driving and owning an EV was actually like you’d be the last person I’d ask.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Probably because this scenario is very rare.
So first of all 95% of all charging is done via destination chargers, not DC rapid.
In other words people plug in at work or home overnight (many have a cheap rate tariff on charge overnight) and you forget it. It doesn’t matter if it takes 2 hour, 2 hour or 4 hours to charge. I’m there 8 plus anyway.
So now we just have 5% of total amount of charging left.
So not everyone is in a cold climate.
I don’t know anyone who would run their battery % to less than 20% before stopping to charge.
Many cars have heat pumps. I believe Tesla will automatically precondition the battery as you approach the supercharger it’s taking you to.

So basically you are posting about the 1% user scenario. It is always straight to the edge case with your anti EV posts. It’s a shame as they really are great cars. You are determined to not like them. To educate all of us who actually use them day to day about how they actually work. It seems strange.
If I wanted to know how to photograph the Northern Lights you would be the first person I would ask.
If I wanted to know what driving and owning an EV was actually like you’d be the last person I’d ask.

Nope not at all. The maybe your use case and if those you know, that doesn’t mean it the same for everyone else.

Not everyone can charge at work. Whilst a lot of people can charge at home the majority can’t.

And people do take road trips. Plenty of people work away from home as well. Heck I have to go through four countries and do that twice a month.

And just take a look at any UK forum and you’ll see newbie EV drivers wonder about why their efficiency is so bad. It’s not just for Alaska or Canada or Norway.

Also reading between the lines, you can see someone who is actually very interested and is thoroughly informing themselves. Well that is what I see. I don’t see anti EV at all.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Probably because this scenario is very rare.
So first of all 95% of all charging is done via destination chargers, not DC rapid.
In other words people plug in at work or home overnight (many have a cheap rate tariff on charge overnight) and you forget it. It doesn’t matter if it takes 2 hour, 2 hour or 4 hours to charge. I’m there 8 plus anyway.
So now we just have 5% of total amount of charging left.
So not everyone is in a cold climate.
I don’t know anyone who would run their battery % to less than 20% before stopping to charge.
Many cars have heat pumps. I believe Tesla will automatically precondition the battery as you approach the supercharger it’s taking you to.

So basically you are posting about the 1% user scenario. It is always straight to the edge case with your anti EV posts. It’s a shame as they really are great cars. You are determined to not like them. To educate all of us who actually use them day to day about how they actually work. It seems strange.
If I wanted to know how to photograph the Northern Lights you would be the first person I would ask.
If I wanted to know what driving and owning an EV was actually like you’d be the last person I’d ask.

Keep in mind that one's assumptions of others aren't necessarily true. The videos I posted should be of interest to those who may have similar experiences as the ones told by the video hosts. I am certain that there are a lot of people in your country who drive long distances now and then, and fuel or charge their vehicles along the roads. I have no idea why you believe that the video I posted is anti EV

Have you forgotten this thread's title?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Keep in mind that one's assumptions of others aren't necessarily true. The videos I posted should be of interest to those who may have similar experiences as the ones told by the video hosts. I am certain that there are a lot of people in your country who drive long distances now and then, and fuel or charge their vehicles along the roads. I have no idea why you believe that the video I posted is anti EV

Have you forgotten this thread's title?

The stats for 95% of all EV charging takes place at destination chargers wasn't an opinion. It was based on a survey of UK EV owners.

Of course lots of people drive EV's long distance they are very capable.

Not forgotten the thread title at all. EV's are cars aren't they?

And lets be honest does this reply belong in the 'Who is planning to get an electric car thread?'

Don't have to worry about smelly old diesel in EV'S

 

[AlaskaMoose]

The stats for 95% of all EV charging takes place at destination chargers wasn't an opinion. It was based on a survey of UK EV owners.

Of course lots of people drive EV's long distance they are very capable.

Not forgotten the thread title at all. EV's are cars aren't they?

And lets be honest does this reply belong in the 'Who is planning to get an electric car thread?'

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Don't have to worry about smelly old diesel in EV'S

Agree. There are numerous types of vehicles. But I honestly admit the faults of the ICE automobiles I drive without being bothered by what EV and other ICE drivers may say. For example, I don't react well to the smell of diesel or heating fuel, and while diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline ones-something that is a "pro" for long distance driving-I have never purchased a diesel vehicle for the stated reason above

There are a lot of fallacies, maybe misunderstandings, about EV's and ICE automobiles in both sides. The videos about EV batteries I post should be of interest to EV drivers who haven't realized the differences in charging rates versus battery state of charge and internal temperature. But I am interested the most in the technical aspects of battery construction and charging. While I haven't worked with lithium batteries, one of my former jobs included the assembly and maintenance (charging, discharging, assembling, and bench testing) of aircraft multi-cell batteries of numerous kinds and voltages.

By the way, I have always enjoyed driving long distances with my family. When living in CA we used to travel across the State, North/South, East, and West. Through Oregon, Nevada, Utah, and so on. My wife and I have driven from Alaska to CA, from CA to Northern NY, From Northern NY North to Canada, then across Canada from Montreal all the way West of Canada, and then South to Seattle Washington. The last time, in 1987, we drove North throw Canada to Alaska. We arrived to Fairbanks, on 4 July 1987 (4th Of July). All those times we drove two cars with three children in 1984, and four children in 1987

 

[Herdfan]

For example, I don't react well to the smell of diesel or heating fuel, and while diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline ones-something that is a "pro" for long distance driving-I have never purchased a diesel vehicle for the stated reason above

The newer SCR diesel engines are very clean. You could stick your nose down at my tailpipe and might not even know it was a diesel.

Wife hates the smell also, so in the late 90's, early 00's, I went back to gas. But in 2007 when the low-sulphur ones were introduced, I came back. On my 4th one since then (tried an Ecoboost for a couple of years).

 

[AlaskaMoose]

The newer SCR diesel engines are very clean. You could stick your nose down at my tailpipe and might not even know it was a diesel.

Wife hates the smell also, so in the late 90's, early 00's, I went back to gas. But in 2007 when the low-sulphur ones were introduced, I came back. On my 4th one since then (tried an Ecoboost for a couple of years).

Yes, the new diesel engines are quite efficient. I just have trouble with the smell of diesel fuel. A boiler technician friend of mine does not sense the smell of diesel fuel, and when he's tuning the boiler in my house he always asks me to tell him if I smell any sings if fuel after firing the boiler and recording its burn efficiency

Björn Nyland is another long standing EV youtuber, he is from Norway so a pretty cold climate and basically keeps track of his 1,000 Km challenge. He is a bit more all over the place and not as slick as Karl but yet very informative on a range of cars.

https://www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland

I have watched some of his videos. He seems to be quite fair or accurate about the winter drive range of the vehicles he drives. The same for Kyle (the American fellow who has a few youtube videos about battery temperature vs. charging speed, and "Yo-Yo driving").

 

[Herdfan]

Yes, the new diesel engines are quite efficient. I just have trouble with the smell of diesel fuel.

As in the liquid version or the burned version?

Like I said, you can't tell the SCR diesels are diesels from the exhaust.

As for the liquid, I keep a box of disposable gloves in my truck for use when fueling up. I don't want to smell it either.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

As in the liquid version or the burned version?

Like I said, you can't tell the SCR diesels are diesels from the exhaust.

As for the liquid, I keep a box of disposable gloves in my truck for use when fueling up. I don't want to smell it either.

Believe it or not, to both. For example, one of the new diesel trucks with its engine idling nearby; while it does not smell like unburned fuel, it still gives me headache. But it does not bother my wife. Instead, she gets headaches from too much caffeine, or sugar

I do wear gloves when servicing the boiler at home, and also when checking the fuel level in the tank. Not a bad idea to have nitrile gloves in the vehicle and at home, too. I wear them when replacing engine oil and filters.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I have been struck by how ugly - that is, how utterly unattractive from an aesthetic perspective - a great many modern cars are.

As it happens, I'm one of these sad people who sometimes watches videos (You Tube stuff) about classic cars.

Yes, I know that modern cars are safer, (a lot safer), more economical, and more environmentally friendly (and that is even leaving aside entirely the discussion on EV cars).

 

[vipergts2207]

I have been struck by how ugly - that is, how utterly unattractive from an aesthetic perspective - a great many modern cars are.

As it happens, I'm one of these sad people who sometimes watches video (You Tube stuff) about classic cars.

Yes, I know that modern cars are safer, (a lot safer), more economical, and more environmentally friendly (and that is even leaving aside entirely the discussion on EV cars).

Definitely a lot of boring crossovers and SUVs on the road these days, though I can understand and appreciate the utility. Even worse in my opinion though is the sea of greyscale. Seems like almost every car out there is black, white, silver, or gray. 🥱

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Definitely a lot of boring crossovers and SUVs on the road these days, though I can understand and appreciate the utility. Even worse in my opinion though is the sea of greyscale. Seems like almost every car out there is black, white, silver, or gray. 🥱

Agreed.

I accept and acknowledge the utility (and the advantages of same), and recognise the steps that have been taken over the past few decades to make cars safer, more economical, more environmentally friendly (and that is not even venturing into discussion of EVs).

But, aesthetically, they are ugly, a great many of them are absolutely and appallingly ugly.

I watch cars drive by, (perhaps, while awaiting a bus), and find myself not only not desiring many (actually, any), but, actually being repulsed by their unappealing appearance.

Aesthetically, - and I am not referring to "dream" cars", but rather the sort of attractive and stylish cars one saw on roads twenty, thirty and forty years ago - much modern car design really is rather underwhelming.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Agreed.

I accept and acknowledge the utility (and the advantages of same), and recognise the steps that have been taken over the past few decades to make cars safer, more economical, more environmentally friendly (and that is not even venturing into discussion of EVs).

But, aesthetically, they are ugly, a great many of them are absolutely and appallingly ugly.

I watch cars drive by, (perhaps, while awaiting a bus), and find myself not only not desiring many (actually, any), but, actually being repulsed by their unappealing appearance.

Aesthetically, - and I am not referring to "dream" cars", but rather the sort of attractive and stylish cars one saw on roads twenty, thirty and forty years ago - much modern car design really is rather underwhelming.

It may or may not be so as it is highly subjective. But think about why that it? And not just with rose tinted glasses on, I like my 'retro' cars from the eighties (got a Golf MK2, BMW E30, are on the hunt for the right Porsche 911 Targa SC) but I also like modern cars and some have some really cool current designs.

From SUV's like the Range Rover L460 which is an amazing evolution of the classic design, yet super modern. To the crazy boxy design with a butch retro look of the Kia EV9. Or none suvs like the Polestar 2 which is clearly so Swedish and very Saab like, or if you prefer coupes like a BMW M2 Competition with its flowing and bulging lines.

Naturally modern day cars are constraint by regulations as to what can be done. Only when you are in the USA and in the light duty class there are rules where you can bypass those constraints and produce cool (but rather unfriendly for other road users) stuff like the Cybertruck.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

It may or may not be so as it is highly subjective. But think about why that it? And not just with rose tinted glasses on, I like my 'retro' cars from the eighties (got a Golf MK2, BMW E30, are on the hunt for the right Porsche 911 Targa SC) but I also like modern cars and some have some really cool current designs.

From SUV's like the Range Rover L460 which is an amazing evolution of the classic design, yet super modern. To the crazy boxy design with a butch retro look of the Kia EV9. Or none suvs like the Polestar 2 which is clearly so Swedish and very Saab like, or if you prefer coupes like a BMW M2 Competition with its flowing and bulging lines.

Naturally modern day cars are constraint by regulations as to what can be done. Only when you are in the USA and in the light duty class there are rules where you can bypass those constraints and produce cool (but rather unfriendly for other road users) stuff like the Cybertruck.

The old car I enjoyed the most in my early 20's was a "hunter green" color 1964 Volvo 122. Nothing fancy about it, nor very safe by today standards, but extremely reliably. The deep-green paint color was super shiny. I drove it for several years in the early '70's, and donated it to a friend of mine when leaving the "Big Apple" with the US military. Manual transmission, easy-engaging clutch, and nearly indestructible like the Toyota Helix.

I agree with you about the looks of cars of today, some look ok, but the best-looking ones aren't affordable to a lot of people. Maybe it is only "me," but the Cybertruck is the ugliest thing I can think of.

I saw maybe two or three 2023 automobiles that look quite nice (Lexus, Jaguar, Corvette, and RAM 1500 truck, come to mind, but a few are quite ugly too:

Best-Looking New Cars You Can Buy in 2023

No one wants to drive an ugly car. These 18 vehicles have the special something that earns them a spot on our list of best-looking cars of 2023.

cars.usnews.com

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Oh yes I love a Volvo “Amazon”. Even looked good in an estate shape which is to me the most ugly body shape.

I agree with the cyber truck but to me it falls in my category that it is so ugly that it becomes interesting again 🤣 Not that it ever goes on sale in my territory as it seems to break a lot of rules and looks dangerous to other road users.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The old car I enjoyed the most in my early 20's was a "hunter green" color 1964 Volvo 122. Nothing fancy about it, nor very safe by today standards, but extremely reliably. The deep-green paint color was super shiny. I drove it for several years in the early '70's, and donated it to a friend of mine when leaving the "Big Apple" with the US military. Manual transmission, easy-engaging clutch, and nearly indestructible like the Toyota Helix.

I agree with you about the looks of cars of today, some look ok, but the best-looking ones aren't affordable to a lot of people. Maybe it is only "me," but the Cybertruck is the ugliest thing I can think of.

I saw maybe two or three 2023 automobiles that look quite nice (Lexus, Jaguar, Corvette, and RAM 1500 truck, come to mind, but a few are quite ugly too:

Best-Looking New Cars You Can Buy in 2023

No one wants to drive an ugly car. These 18 vehicles have the special something that earns them a spot on our list of best-looking cars of 2023.

cars.usnews.com

No it’s not just you. The Cybertruck is as ugly as I’ve seen.
Not that I find any trucks good looking. I prefer old cars for looks. Or unique looking at least. Many of today’s cars look the same as many others. You really have to stare at the name badge to tell which one it is.
Here are three of my favourites I’ll never own!

 

[JoeG4]

No it’s not just you. The Cybertruck is as ugly as I’ve seen.
Not that I find any trucks good looking. I prefer old cars for looks. Or unique looking at least. Many of today’s cars look the same as many others. You really have to stare at the name badge to tell which one it is.
Here are three of my favourites I’ll never own!

That classic Jag is beautiful!

I felt the same but my mom loves Jeeps, so at some point I decided to try a Wrangler and ended up buying a Wrangler. It's a fun little vehicle for driving around the neighborhood, and other things. Very fun. It drives like a little fedex truck and that's half the charm lol.

My plan is to save up and get a fun second car at some point. Not sure what though. I'm ALL OVER the place. A Camaro or miata (convertible though, not coupe!) would probably be the best new bang-for-the-buck. I pondered buying a Cayman before and I'd ponder it again, though they are more expensive now... almost as expensive as a used AMG GT and those are way cooler. In roadster form they even kinda start resembling that Jag!

I also love Minis. And 57 chevies.. and retro land yacht cadillacs. And I still love Chrysler 300s and have randomly pondered buying a 300S V8 or something of that nature before they disappear off the new car market. I think the 300s were a little more fun when they first came out because they were a stylish sedan that happened to have a V8... before they caught on that people really liked V8s and went nuts with the "WE'LL MAKE IT A LOUDER FASTER V8!" thing in the charger/challenger lol.

 

[Herdfan]

I have been struck by how ugly - that is, how utterly unattractive from an aesthetic perspective - a great many modern cars are.

Because they are all designed in the same wind tunnels by the same engineers who all went to the same schools.

 

[Herdfan]

The old car I enjoyed the most in my early 20's was a "hunter green" color 1964 Volvo 122. Nothing fancy about it,

In college I drove a BMW 325e. Started my love affair with BMW's so after I started making some money (and had a company vehicle), I bought a 1973 BMW 2002 tii. It was going to be my "project" car. I was well on my way and then I met this girl.......... end of project.

 

[Apple fanboy]

In college I drove a BMW 325e. Started my love affair with BMW's so after I started making some money (and had a company vehicle), I bought a 1973 BMW 2002 tii. It was going to be my "project" car. I was well on my way and then I met this girl.......... end of project.

Different project then!

 

[sunapple]

I think a lot of cars for sale today look worse than even the generation before *cough* BMW 5 series *cough*. But still I feel like we're spoiled in Europe compared to the US. A lot of their sedans and SUVs do all seem very similar and uninteresting (sorry). To be fair, in The Netherlands most cars are either black, white or grey so it still looks like a sea of sameness.

I do like the recent flood of retro EVs, some more successful than others but car brands seem to keep trying.

 

[jz0309]

certainly the various regulations have dictated certain "styles" (eg environmental forced aerodynamics, safety etc), plus, automakers branding makes a car portfolio "look alike", got to recognize Brand A immediately ...
And then there is the "tool" aspect as most people consider cars as a means to go from point A to B ...
Personally, my "needs" have changed over time, in my younger days I'd look much more for "aesthetics", now I don't really care, except, I still prefer "real" colors

 

[AlaskaMoose]

No it’s not just you. The Cybertruck is as ugly as I’ve seen.
Not that I find any trucks good looking. I prefer old cars for looks. Or unique looking at least. Many of today’s cars look the same as many others. You really have to stare at the name badge to tell which one it is.
Here are three of my favourites I’ll never own!

I assume the first one, with the nice deep-green paint is an MGB? And yes, I do love its looks. The Mini has always been a fun small car.