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Scepticalscribe

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Jul 29, 2008
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This is truly incredible, I had no idea that documents are still sealed under such circumstances. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

This makes me appreciate The Crown even more! I can't wait for season 3. I will miss Claire Foy and her astounding, beautiful, charming, elegant performance and persona.

Some of the documents pertaining to the sinking of the Lusitania in 1915 were also sealed under a 100 year embargo - which again, prompts more questions, as such material was clearly likely to beg questions of the official account, and would hardly have been sealed if it didn't.

Re Edward VIII, the Duke of Windsor, post his abdication, I think that the outlines of the story are pretty clear; the devil will be in the precise compromising detail (which I expect will be considerable - it wouldn't have been sealed, or the Brits wouldn't have made such attempts to suppress it, otherwise), of whatever arrangements were made or deal struck to have his throne restored to him in the event of a German victory.

However, you make the fair point that significant members of the aristocracy held broadly similar views to these held by the Duke of Windsor. But, once war broke out, things changed, as, even for many of these right wing or reactionary aristocrats, holding similar views to the former king was one thing, but aiding and abetting the enemy to achieve their aims - once a state of war existed between the two countries - was quite another.

In his case, the dividing line between "willing dupe" and active sympathiser/collaborator becomes blurred, ever more so, once war broke out and, I suspect, he made it clear that he was available to assist the Germans (or they sounded him out - remember, they did have contact with him, in France, Spain and Portugal and he certainly delayed and lingered long, in 'neutral' countries, away from British soil in 1940) should they invade his country and successfully conquer it and the throne become vacant.
 
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Huntn

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I've been binge watching both series one and series two and must say that I find them excellent.

The scripts, production values, and acting are superb, (Claire Foy and Matt Smith as Elizabeth and Philip are excellent, I thought John Lithgow's Churchill first rate, - and most of the other cast members exceptionally good, while Alex Jennings as the embittered, and snidely bitchy, Duke of Windsor is an absolute scene-stealer) and the history is very well researched and exceedingly solid.
Great performance by Jennings.
 

Huntn

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Agree. Absolutely spell-binding; actually, seriously scene -stealing; the spite, bitterness, malice, obsessive love for Walllis Simpson (Duchess of Windsor), sinuous charm, contempt for many of hose with whom he interacts and deals, and self-serving conduct are superbly portrayed.
Btw, do you have Netflix, purchased the series, or is there another avenue to watch The Crown in the U.K.?
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Btw, do you have Netflix, purchased the series, or is there another avenue to watch The Crown in the U.K.?

No, I purchased a DVD box set, as the series received terrific reviews, and people I like and respect thought that I would like it.

My mother would have loved it, had this been available before dementia claimed her.

And, as it happens, I, personally, don't have Netflix.
 
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yaxomoxay

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No, I purchased a DVD box set, as the series received terrific reviews, and people I like and respect thought that I would like it.

Great purchase. I have Netflix but I am always tempted to get Blurays. I watched the 2 seasons at least three times and each time has been a pleasure to watch. Again, Claire Foy is just amazing; I guess I fell in love ?
Another Netflix production that I recommend is Mindhunter.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Great purchase. I have Netflix but I am always tempted to get Blurays. I watched the 2 seasons at least three times and each time has been a pleasure to watch. Again, Claire Foy is just amazing; I guess I fell in love ?
Another Netflix production that I recommend is Mindhunter.

I purchased a set (eight DVDs) of series one and series two, and cannot recommend it highly enough.

It is exactly the kind of TV show my mother would have absolutely adored (we got "The Kings' Speech" for her a few years ago, on DVD, as a gift, but she had already beyond the stage of being able to derive pleasure from it; twenty years ago, she would have absolutely loved it).

Agree re Claire Foy - she gave a superlative performance in The Crown - and was also outstanding as Anne Boleyn in Wolf Hall.

And I would add that Vanessa Kirby - as the brittle, beautiful, damaged, and vulnerable Princess Margaret is extremely good.

The scene between Winston Churchill (John Lithgow) and Graham Sutherland (Stephen Dillane) - when Sutherland was painting the masterpiece that portrait that was ultimately hated by Churchill - and Churchill was sitting for him - where they opened up to one another, both surprised and taken aback by the intimacy of the unexpected exchange - was one where you were almost holding your breath, it was so good.

And it was preceded by the sheer venom of the scene where Churchill (Lithgow) and Anthony Eden (Jeremy Northam) argued over one another's health (and possible resignation) - absolutely brilliant.
 
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Huntn

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Season 3 starts in 1964.
S3:Episode 1: A spy in the Palace.
S3:Episode 2: Princess Margaret on a mission to DC to mend UK/US relations amidst the Vietnam War and secure a much needed loan. It’s the first humorous episode in this series, including a drinking and limerick contest at a State Dinner with President Johnson. ?

Poignant relationship between Elizabeth and Margaret. Helena Bonham Carter plays a great Margaret.
I also like the rest of the cast including Tobias Menzies (Rome, HBO) as Philip. And even though he did not sound anything like Johnson, I like Clancy Bown (Shawshank Redemption- Capt Hadley, Mr Krabs- Spongbob Square Pants).?

 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,994
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In a coffee shop.
Season 3 starts in 1964.
Episode 1: A spy in the Palace.
Episode 2: Princess Margaret on a mission to DC to mend UK/US relations amidst the Vietnam War and secure a much needed loan. It’s the first humorous episode in this series, including a drinking and limerick contest at a State Dinner with President Johnson. ?

Poignant relationship between Elizabeth and Margaret. Helena Bonham Carter plays a great Margaret.
I also like the rest of the case, including Tobias Menzies (Rome, HBO) as Philip. And even though he did not sound anything like Johnson, I like Clancy Bown (Shawshank Redemption- Capt Hadley, Mr Krabs- Spongbob Square Pants).?


All the more to look forward to, when I invest in the DVD to series three.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Season 3 starts in 1964.
Episode 1: A spy in the Palace.
Episode 2: Princess Margaret on a mission to DC to mend UK/US relations amidst the Vietnam War and secure a much needed loan. It’s the first humorous episode in this series, including a drinking and limerick contest at a State Dinner with President Johnson. ?

Poignant relationship between Elizabeth and Margaret. Helena Bonham Carter plays a great Margaret.
I also like the rest of the case, including Tobias Menzies (Rome, HBO) as Philip. And even though he did not sound anything like Johnson, I like Clancy Bown (Shawshank Redemption- Capt Hadley, Mr Krabs- Spongbob Square Pants).?


watched S3E1. Outstanding production. Not sold on Coleman as the Queen, but she has big shoes to fill (I can rewatch the beautiful and outstanding Ms. Foy every day!)
 
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Scepticalscribe

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watched S3E1. Outstanding production. Not sold on Coleman as the Queen, but she has big shoes to fill (I can rewatch the beautiful and outstanding Ms. Foy every day!)

I take your point re Olivia Coleman, and will be most interested to see this for myself, but, I think that the show wished to portray a queen who had grown into herself and into her role as queen, and was at ease in her marriage and more relaxed in her role as a mother (to what was almost her second family, Andrew and Edward), and was comfortably reconciled - as a middle-aged woman - to her life and the roles that had been mapped out for her.

That is very different to the person whom Claire Foy played, who was a young woman thrown into facing some very serious challenges, both personal and professional.
 
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Huntn

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watched S3E1. Outstanding production. Not sold on Coleman as the Queen, but she has big shoes to fill (I can rewatch the beautiful and outstanding Ms. Foy every day!)
Maybe, Claire Foy, regarding appearance could be described as the more Hollywood version of Queen Elizabeth. ;)
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Maybe, Claire Foy, regarding appearance could be described as the more Hollywood version of Queen Elizabeth. ;)

She was also playing the queen as a younger woman, a woman who had yet to grow into - and become comfortable in - her role as queen and who she was as a person, and where the two roles fused.

Whether it was personality, character or role, or some combination thereof, Queen Elizabeth actually looked middle aged once she reached middle age, but she also looked much more relaxed in herself, and - while Claire Foy could convey that exceptionally well, - the idea of the growing confidence of middle age - both personally and professionally - is what - I suspect - that this series seems to wish to convey.
 
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yaxomoxay

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I take your point re Olivia Coleman, and will be most interested to see this for myself, but, I think that the show wished to portray a queen who had grown into herself and into her role as queen, and was at ease in her marriage and more relaxed in her role as a mother (to what was almost her second family, Andrew and Edward), and was comfortably reconciled - as a middle-aged woman - to her life and the roles that had been mapped out for her.

That is very different to the person whom Claire Foy played, who was a young woman thrown into facing some very serious challenges, both personal and professional.

Oh, I've nothing against the decision of changing the actors. To be honest it makes sense, and they have chosen amazing actors to fill the roles. I wish that more series had the guts to do this instead of artificially aging the actors.
It's possible that Coleman's portrayal is intended to be less sympathetic than Foy's. A young individual finding herself in the spotlight is going to be more sympathetic than a middle aged individual who has been on everybody's radar for a while. I guess that my feeling makes total sense and it's possible that it's exactly what the producers wanted. I think I can say I observed a similar pattern with John Paul II. Relatively a young pope, people were excited at the beginning, then as he grew older and as he remained in the spotlight for a while, people got colder to him, until his late age as people started to be close to him when the inevitable end became closer and closer.
[automerge]1574091645[/automerge]
Of note, Ms Foy was great as Janet Armstrong in First Man.
 

Huntn

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She was also playing the queen as a younger woman, a woman who had yet to grow into - and become comfortable in - her role as queen and who she was as a person, and where the two roles fused.

Whether it was personality, character or role, or some combination thereof, Queen Elizabeth actually looked middle aged once she reached middle age, but she also looked much more relaxed in herself, and - while Claire Foy could convey that exceptionally well, - the idea of the growing confidence of middle age - both personally and professionally - is what - I suspect - that this series seems to wish to convey.
I agree. My reply was only in response to the beautiful comment. I’ve mentioned it before, that while beautiful can be more appealing than average, Hollywood tends to replace average people with beautiful actors, and while the UK has it’s fair share of beautiful actors, does a much better job of utilizing average looking actors to represent real, average people. In fact sometimes it’s almost jarring if you are mostly used to seeing very attractive lead characters on TV and the big screen. ;)
 

Scepticalscribe

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I agree. My reply was only in response to the beautiful comment. I’ve mentioned it before, that while beautiful can be more appealing than average, Hollywood tends to replace average people with beautiful actors, and while the UK has it’s fair share of beautiful actors, does a much better job of utilizing average looking actors to represent real, average people.

Oddly enough, this is one of the reasons I prefer British (and European) movies (or a TV series) to those made by Hollywood.

The excess of beauty in Hollywood (movies) ensures that I am unable to "willingly suspend disbelief". In general, I prefer actors (male and female) who look like ordinary people.

Yes, I know it's peddling a myth, - the myth of beauty - but it is a myth that sets my teeth on edge; this is because in too many US productions, appearance seems to trump character, whereas I have always preferred actors who can inhabit and convey character credibly, to beautiful objects - people - that one feasts eyes on, but then (at least, in my case) am bored quite quickly, unless there is more to the portrayal than a pretty visage and a well proportioned body.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Oddly enough, this is one of the reasons I prefer British (and European) movies (or a TV series) to those made by Hollywood.

The excess of beauty in Hollywood ensures that I am unable to "willingly suspend disbelief". In general, I prefer actors (male and female) who look like ordinary people.

Yes, I know its peddling a myth, - the myth of beauty - but it is a myth that sets my teeth on edge; this is because in too many US productions, appearance seems to trump character, whereas I have always preferred actors who can inhabit and convey character credibly, to beautiful objects - people - that one feasts eyes on, but then (at least, in my case) am bored quite quickly, unless there is more to the portrayal than a pretty visage and a well proportioned body.

Well, almost 100% of the Hollywood actors can't age without injecting all sort of stuff in themselves... and then do speeches about self-confidence. I recently watched something with Steve Martin, I don't know he looks like a plastic action figure.
 
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Huntn

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Oddly enough, this is one of the reasons I prefer British (and European) movies (or a TV series) to those made by Hollywood.

The excess of beauty in Hollywood (movies) ensures that I am unable to "willingly suspend disbelief". In general, I prefer actors (male and female) who look like ordinary people.

Yes, I know it's peddling a myth, - the myth of beauty - but it is a myth that sets my teeth on edge; this is because in too many US productions, appearance seems to trump character, whereas I have always preferred actors who can inhabit and convey character credibly, to beautiful objects - people - that one feasts eyes on, but then (at least, in my case) am bored quite quickly, unless there is more to the portrayal than a pretty visage and a well proportioned body.

I’m not proud to say that sometimes my wife is watching a series on Acorn (UK based tv series) and I suffer from a reverse average reaction, too ordinary, even dumpy looking actors in lead roles. I blame this on my Hollywood conditioning. ;) Which is made fun of at the end of Chicken Little (2005). ?

 

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Steve Martin doesn't look that bad. Martin Short, on the other hand, yikes. Wax figurine like in that show they did for Netflix.
 
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Huntn

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S3: Episode 5 Coup- I did no know.
S3: Episode 6 Twywsog Cymru. Excellent episode about Prince Charles becoming the Prince of Whales.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Season 3: Episode 5 Coup- I did no know.
Episode 6 Twywsog Cymru. Excellent episode about Prince Charles becoming the Prince of Whales.

Obviously, I haven't seen that particular episode yet, (The Coup) and - reading about it - I am not sure quite how many liberties were taken with what actually happened, but what is worthy of note is that there is more than a kernel of truth to the story.

However, elements of that particular tale have been known for some time, and, to my certain knowledge, (for I have the book and read it) it was also covered in Peter Wright's (controversial) book "Spycatcher".

Charles is still the Prince of Wales, and will hold that position until (and if) he succeeds his mother on the throne.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Steve Martin doesn't look that bad.

Have you seen his nose???

282479_full.jpg



?
 

Huntn

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Obviously, I haven't seen that particular episode yet, (The Coup) and - reading about it - I am not sure quite how many liberties were taken with what actually happened, but what is worthy of note is that there is more than a kernel of truth to the story.

However, elements of that particular tale have been known, and, to my certain knowledge, it was also covered in Peter Wright's (controversial) book "Spycatcher".

Charles is still the Prince of Wales, and will hold that position until (and if) he succeeds his mother on the throne.

The coup episode did not strike me as far fetched as portrayed.
With the threat of devaluing the Pound (1967-8ish) a group of U.K. businessmen decide they should try to actually take over the government by force, and enlist Lord Mountbatten to be their public leader.

He spends several days researching historical coups around the world, the requirements and odds of a successful coup, and determines that the only way a coup will work in the UK is if he can enlist the Queen/Crown in the effort. That effort to enlist her in a conversation fails and it just fades away without any repercussions. My impression is that it did not become public knowledge in the immediate time frame.
 

yaxomoxay

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Episode 2 - Margaretology: wonderful episode! It truly made me fall in love with Bonham Carter’s portrayal of Margaret. Now I am sold on Bonham Carter.

Episode 3 - Aberfan: oh my God, what a poignant episode. I honestly cried a bit in this one. I had no idea about this tragedy which is clearly important in British culture. The art in this episode was outstanding. The scene in which everything stops during the PM’s visit, with the figures carrying the bodies in penumbra, was one of the best visuals I have seen on the small screen. This episode sold me on Mrs Colman portrayal of Her Majesty. I also wonder if PM Wilson‘s portrayal is accurate; I don’t know much if anything about him, but I am impressed by how a seemingly minor and linear character is actually neither minor nor linear. I can’t wait for @Scepticalscribe to tell me more about the PM. I must add that all the supporting characters of this episode were amazing, which means that the director really did an incredible job.
 
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