The end of Tim Cook's reign is near.

[bgarnett]

I’m no fan of AVP, I think is overpriced, but I do recognise it is a first generation release that Apple is already seeking feedback on with a view to deciding where to next.

Apple could do with the next Johnny Ive to inspire and lead development of future devices so these don’t look tired and same old same old. I think the company certainly could do with not assuming what its customers want and look to what the market is demanding, we’ve seen a lot of this sadly.

 

[The Apple Bitch]

Apple hasn’t innovated the iPhone since iPhone X and the Apple Watch isn’t exciting. The Vision Pro is a $3,500 novelty with zero practical uses and it makes people sick. The fine woven accessories are such a huge flop that they’re being pulled off shelves from Apple Stores. It’s pretty clear Cook needs to go.

It's hard to innovate a quintessential product without a need for innovation (Take the paperclip and pencil for example). After the X-model there really hasn't been much to improve except features and hardware upgrades. The option that remains is to expand into a new market/form-factor, like the AVP and AW.

Tech does not need to be exiting.

I do not believe that Jobs would allow the Apple Mouse to go untouched for so long, he was their frontman. Think of Tim as the mind controlling everything from behind the curtains. Steve Jobs had qualities Tim Cook Lacks and vise versa!

As for the AVP, it's not a failure, very very far from it 😂🤣.

 

[Chet-NYC]

Tim had high hopes with the Apple Vision Pro but it failed spectacularly. It lacks a killer feature, it lacks a purpose, and it is just too expensive for a toy.

Apple had to cancel multiple products in order to give all resources to the development of this flop device: Apple's Car, the Charging Pad, even the iPhone mini 14 and 15 were canceled because of this.

There might even be a link to Jony Ive's departure from Apple, because he wanted nothing to do with "that stupid goggles".

Tim was chasing the pink dragon with this, now Apple is in a sort of dead end:

Phones without real innovation.

Computers with soldered 8 gigs of RAM.

Watches, that tell the world: this person is a nerdy nerd.

And Apple TV without any serious sports league.



How long can Apple survive with this Mediocrity?

Who will be the next CEO?

I'm going to join in on the absolute bashing this post has taken because it deserves it.

I'll keep my criticism to a few points;

1) All mobile phones have been evolutionary in design and not revolutionary for some time now. Yes, the iPhone 11 was the last major change in iPhone design, and since then it has been more evolutionary. But if you think the iPhone 11/11Pro is the same as the 15/15 Pro, you really need to buy some clues.

2) There was no iPhone 14 or 15 mini for a very simple reason... THEY DID NOT SELL. I worked in a very large Apple Store for 4.5 years. When the 12 Mini came out, we saw a burst of sales that lasted a couple weeks and then stopped. For the 13 Mini, the same thing happened, but a smaller burst.

I read an article not all that long ago... may have been this site in fact, that estimates were that the 12 Mini were only 4% of total iPhone sales and that the 13 Mini was was almost cancelled, but production had already started. That model was a grand total of 2% of all iPhone sales.

By far, the most popular models of iPhones are the Pros, and more Pro Max models. Overall, people want larger phones. The cancellation of the minis has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Apple Vision Pro.

3) "Tim was chasing the pink dragon..." That is a phrase I've never heard before, and I hope the color pink does not have any sort of derogatory meaning.

4) The Car may have been cancelled and I my guess is mostly due to costs. Not just development of the car itself, but manufacturing, retail presence to sell a car, and so on. The return on the investment just wasn't going to be there. However, there are few AI processes more complex than getting a car to drive itself. I am confident that the R&D done into the software that would've driven the car will be repurposed and used greatly in Apple's coming AI in the next round of operating systems.

5) The Apple Vision Pro has been out for exactly three months. Nice of you to call it an utter failure. Judging by your post, you were one of those people who called the Watch a failure three seconds after its debut. Meanwhile, it is, for some years now, the largest selling watch of any kind on the planet.

So that's it. Don't like Apple? Fine. Go buy a PC, Android phone and tablet, and enjoy.

 

[brofkand]

The Tim Cook era has certainly seen more failed products than the Jobs era. But the Cook era has also seen explosive growth in the company. And extreme government scrutiny as well around the world.

What happens next is anyone’s guess.

Apple can afford to weather a few catastropic failures like Vision Pro, but at a certain point the board will grow weary of the lack of vision.

 

[decafjava]

The current Mac mini and the Mac Studio are disastrous failures, because CPU, RAM and Storage are soldered, which gives zero advantages to the user in case of a desktop machine.

This is very sad, because the Mac mini once was a fantastic device. It could return to glory, if built with exchangeable components.

But Cook would not do that. Because Cook loves the stock holders and Cook hates the common consumer.

He will always be remembered as the bean counter, who skyrocketed Apple's company value but destroyed, what so many people loved about Apple.

He was the perfect COO but he is a disappointing CEO.

So just an observation, whatever I think of your first post, you have not even bothered to engage those who disagree with you or even acknowledge any of their points. Carry on.

 

[6749974]

My business is part of the art world. In my experience, artists are generally not (deep) thinkers – if they were, they would have become something else, writers or essayists or journalists, or something in another business where serious thinking takes up a lot of time in work and personal life. Of course that's a generalization, but that's my experience from decades of consulting and working with artists. Creating art is a craft and has nothing to do with thinking in the sense of philosophy or contributing to society. The only thing an artist can contribute to society is beauty and entertainment and developing and revealing new facets to familiar themes and stories.

Ive was and is neither an artist, nor a person who can think. When I watched a long an interview a few years ago after he left I was really shocked (and I've not recovered yet from it obviously). Even if you take into account that he might have social awkwardness issues, it's an experience.

"Deep thinking" is the kind of creative, pattern-melding thinking that results in breakthroughs and ah-ha! moments. Deep thinking leads to innovations and inventions. That is the value of deep thinking, and what leads to contributions to society via their fields of activity.

Are you claiming Jony Ive isn't a deep thinker and didn't use deep thinking to contribute to society during his time at Apple?

That Ive isn't well spoken, in matters outside of his field, is a fine observation, and I'm sorry for the trauma that has caused, but that doesn't mean he isn't a deep thinker in his field. That Jony Ive doesn't contribute to politics or push the envelope of philosophical paradigms with published book and paper is also a fine observation.

Your comment is a masterclass in negative framing. You can take one of our finest design thinkers and make them out to be mentally handicapped.

 

[decafjava]

You're conflating tech enthusiasts with the 25 million worldwide majority consumers buying Macs who overwhelmingly want a laptop form-factor.

Soldered RAM and storage is not a major bottleneck to sales, so resolving it won't significantly increase sales. Even "pro" users overwhelmingly prefer MacBook Pros and those certainly can't be upgraded with RAM and storage. Even if you doubled sales, that's still only 2% of Mac sales. Sorry but computers that are permanently attached to a desk and a room is a thing of the past but for workstation use-cases.


Is this comedy? You think young people want a Mac mini and an iPhone SE? Could you be more out of touch?

No they want an iPhone. Young people don't even want laptops or if they do for school/work its a MacBook Pro or an Air. Almost nobody in real life you will ever hear say, "I want a Mac mini." I know 50 Mac users and absolutely nobody has a Mac mini. Their objections and lack of desire for a Mac mini has nothing to do with soldered RAM and storage.

Ok her I have to pipe up, yes I can't argue with sales, but my colleagues both have Mac Minis and are happy. I am not to enamoured of the latest iMacs which unlike my late 2015 27" iMac also have soldered in RAM and far fewer ports. I can get a decent sized monitor for a good price if I upgrade to a Mac Mini though. Agai,. just IMHO as I mull my upgrade options.

 

[6749974]

Ok her I have to pipe up, yes I can't argue with sales, but my colleagues both have Mac Minis and are happy. I am not to enamoured of the latest iMacs which unlike my late 2015 27" iMac also have soldered in RAM and far fewer ports. I can get a decent sized monitor for a good price if I upgrade to a Mac Mini though. Agai,. just IMHO as I mull my upgrade options.

I think we're on the same page. I am not claiming Mac mini is a failure.

Instead, I'm using Mac mini as a case-in-point—just because [a product] doesn't have huge sales, doesn't mean it can't fulfill a different objective.

Mac mini and Mac Studio doesn't satisfy sales goals, but it does satisfy branding, ecosystem, and influencer goals. Same with Mac Pro—while only 3% of sales—Apple needs it to satisfy the Mac-ecosystem, and stay relevant in certain industries that rely on macOS and heavy processing.

Companies can have goals outside of sales—and my original argument is that the Apple Vision Pro should be judged not on sales goals but on the market(ing) goals Apple has set for it—which I strongly suspect are to help seed the emerging AR/VR market.

Regarding RAM and storage—of course considerations would increase amongst us Mac enthusiasts—myself included—if Apple allowed DIY upgrades. But thats not the real problem. The real problem is that sales are held according to customer segmentation. In other words, 90% of Mac sales are laptops because 90% of Mac customers are "laptop buyers."

 

[decafjava]

I see what you are sayng and what I missed and agree totally with you. I don't need a laptop for example as I use a decent new one from my work.

 

[seek3r]

People don’t wear glasses if they are not needed that’s my point.
This has all been done before companies pushing wearables for years.
Can you actually name a successful head based product that’s lasted years apart from headphones that people don’t need because of health reasons

I mean, first of all, the super obvious one: hats. I hope I dont have to explain hats in fashion to you?

Other than that:

Earings and other facial decoration (see: hats)

Shawls, scarves, headscarves, etc

Goggles. I can swim without goggles, but they improve the experience

And that’s just off the top of my head (pun intended)

And as far as glasses go, put a good HUD in a regular pair of glasses and they’ll sell great. Based on rumors that’s been Apple’s ultimate AR goal for years, tech isnt there yet though

 

[zunexapple]

Interesting thread….. but no, Cook ain’t gonna get cooked any time soon….

 

[I7guy]

I’m embarrassed how much I’m enjoying this thread 🤭

If you mean, it's great seeing posts try to spin apples success into a negative, by those suffering from cognitive dissonance from Apples success...then yes.

 

[izzy0242mr]

The enormity of how wrong you are cannot be measured with current technology.

-kp

Probably because baseline current technology only comes with 8 GB of RAM.

 

[TechnoMonk]

The Tim Cook era has certainly seen more failed products than the Jobs era. But the Cook era has also seen explosive growth in the company. And extreme government scrutiny as well around the world.

What happens next is anyone’s guess.

Apple can afford to weather a few catastropic failures like Vision Pro, but at a certain point the board will grow weary of the lack of vision.

Jobs had fair share of failures not any less than Tim Cook, that is a sign of company trying to innovate. Apple had introduced apple silicon, Apple Watch, AirPods which were big hits. Apple silicon is one of the biggest innovations in Apple’s entire existence.

 

[whelmedjedi]

Tim had high hopes with the Apple Vision Pro but it failed spectacularly. It lacks a killer feature, it lacks a purpose, and it is just too expensive for a toy.

Apple had to cancel multiple products in order to give all resources to the development of this flop device: Apple's Car, the Charging Pad, even the iPhone mini 14 and 15 were canceled because of this.

There might even be a link to Jony Ive's departure from Apple, because he wanted nothing to do with "that stupid goggles".

Tim was chasing the pink dragon with this, now Apple is in a sort of dead end:

Phones without real innovation.

Computers with soldered 8 gigs of RAM.

Watches, that tell the world: this person is a nerdy nerd.

And Apple TV without any serious sports league.



How long can Apple survive with this Mediocrity?

Who will be the next CEO?

Firing Jony Ive was the best thing Tim did. I hated Jony’s curvy designs. Especially iphone 6-8. Tim’s only and very big fault is not caring Siri as much as he should. They have missed the AI train by far. And catching it doesnt seems easy.

 

[aibloop]

Tim had high hopes with the Apple Vision Pro but it failed spectacularly. It lacks a killer feature, it lacks a purpose, and it is just too expensive for a toy.

Apple had to cancel multiple products in order to give all resources to the development of this flop device: Apple's Car, the Charging Pad, even the iPhone mini 14 and 15 were canceled because of this.

There might even be a link to Jony Ive's departure from Apple, because he wanted nothing to do with "that stupid goggles".

Tim was chasing the pink dragon with this, now Apple is in a sort of dead end:

Phones without real innovation.

Computers with soldered 8 gigs of RAM.

Watches, that tell the world: this person is a nerdy nerd.

And Apple TV without any serious sports league.



How long can Apple survive with this Mediocrity?

Who will be the next CEO?

The POINT of this release was to make sure AR/VR devices in general do not go the way of 3d screens. Apple can not "innovate" in a space with no activity, there need to exist a supplychain of undercontractors with skills to build these kinds of devices, and they were dissappearing…


Just the introduction of AVP has ressurrected the AR/VR space. It is buzzing with investor capital. Facebook is back to pre-meta debacle stock prices…

Apple could not allow FB/meta bring AR/VR to a quiet death.

Nanoscale optics are coming around 2027, and they enable the "thin" Apple Vision glasses everyone will want to buy eventually. AVP is a development platform/early release product. Metalenz is the US nano-optics company.


Without Tim Cook, I think Apple would have been very badly off during pandemic and now, he is doing a restructuring of manufacturing that is frankly unprecedented in modern history, and we barely hear anything of this… 40% of manufacturing out of China in 3ish years? That is crazy… The logistics of this is immense. And Tim Cook is MR logistics…

Say what you will of Tim Cook, but he is the man who built apple into THE megacorp..

 

[TechnoMonk]

iTunes Ping was one of the biggest failures of Apple. Jobs was bragging about it being alternative to Facebook and Twitter. Shut down less than a year.

 

[6749974]

Jobs was bragging about it being alternative to Facebook and Twitter.

Jobs said the problem with iTunes is you don't know what your favorite artists are up to, or what your friends are listening to, so they built Ping for "social music discovery." He said, "it's sort of like Facebook and Twitter meet iTunes. Its not Facebook, its not Twitter, its something else we've come up with. It's a social network all about music. And its built right into iTunes."

They simply wanted to increase discovery because that leads to more sales, but as the critics said, "Apple doesn't have the culture of a social media company" and it was a UI/UX mess so it never caught on.

We know Ping was never designed to be an alternative to Facebook & Twitter because it didn't launch with the required compatible features to facilitate a transfer of customers from Facebook & Twitter to Ping. It was simply Apple asking, "How do we make iTunes more social?" And the answer was, "you don't."

Source: Apple Special Event 2010

 

[ThomasJL]

This is a quick summarization of the pro-Tim Cook side: Tim Cook is doing an excellent job as Apple CEO because Apple is making huge record amounts of money.

How soulless is that? As if money is the same thing as innovation (it's not). Was Apple less innovative than Microsoft in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s just because Microsoft was making far more money than Apple? The pro-Cook camp's arguments lack logic.

 

[LewisClark25]

I would not be qualified.

But Jony Ive would.

Or even Frederighi.

But the bean counter's days are over. You can't just rely on the Steve Jobs innovations are ride those horses until they are dead. You have to come up with something completely unexpected, new, and well crafted.

Jony Ive? Qualified? is this supposed to be a joke?

 

[sleeptodream]

Firing Jony Ive was the best thing Tim did. I hated Jony’s curvy designs. Especially iphone 6-8. Tim’s only and very big fault is not caring Siri as much as he should. They have missed the AI train by far. And catching it doesnt seems easy.

What if Apple’s plans for AI have nothing to do with generative AI like chat GPT, Sora, etc? Apple caters to creatives, and these generative AI “tools” are threatening to put a lot of creative people out of work. I doubt Apple would want anything to do with them

I know they’re only supposed to care about money, but I see Apple as the most ethical of the large tech companies, and I’m personally glad they’ve stayed out of generative AI so far

I’m sure Apple isn’t behind on what their vision of AI will be, just waiting until it’s fully baked to release it. It will probably just be a replacement for Siri, and hopefully be 100x better. It would be nice if she could completely control our phones and understand any command in plain English (or any language)

 

[6749974]

This is a quick summarization of the pro-Tim Cook side: Tim Cook is doing an excellent job as Apple CEO because Apple is making huge record amounts of money.

No its not. The summary is two fold:

• Cook is a great EXECUTOR and EXECUTIVE. Do you know what CEO stands for?
• He's not a product guy, so he does his job of providing for the product people in the company by making sure everything else in marketing and operations are running to scale, and smoothly, so that R&D and design can be funded, and they can scale manufacturing; he also has to make sure the stock is attracting talent or else there will be talent attrition and its hard to bring a company back from that.

Revenue, Profits, Market cap are simply indicators that he's doing all that well, that the company is healthy.

Once the visionary-founder leaves, a Cook-type is the best type of CEO you can ask for. You're not going to get another Steve Jobs.

How soulless is that? As if money is the same thing as innovation (it's not). Was Apple less innovative than Microsoft in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s just because Microsoft was making far more money than Apple? The pro-Cook camp's arguments lack logic.

Cook isn't a money guy, he's an operations guy. Let's discern that. He is very much unlike Ballmer and even Gates. Read Corporate Lifecycles by Ichak Adizes for why Cook isn't simply a money guy. The nature of mature corporations—they are perpetually on the brink of death. You hand a corporation to a money guy with no sense of operations and the company dies in 10 years (the board will usually fire the CEO prior to that happening, of coutrse). You hand a mature corporation to an operations guy who can balance all the heavy parts of a corporation and the company can live indefinitely, even grow 10x. A CEO like that just needs to make sure there is an internal culture of creativity and innovation that is producing new cash cows during approaching stagnation periods, to keep the company healthy.

None of us here are under a Cook spell. There is no cult of personality. We're just pragmatic and aren't going to **** all over someone doing a good-enough job. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[bushman4]

Tbh I’m just completely bored with iPhones. Had every model and the 15 pro max is going to be my last.

Time for Apple to change up
The hardware in the iPhone……not just the camera and S.O.C
People have gotten bored with the iPhone and as a result keep it for years without missing anything. Is that what Apple wants ….doubtful

 

[decafjava]

This is a quick summarization of the pro-Tim Cook side: Tim Cook is doing an excellent job as Apple CEO because Apple is making huge record amounts of money.

How soulless is that? As if money is the same thing as innovation (it's not). Was Apple less innovative than Microsoft in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s just because Microsoft was making far more money than Apple? The pro-Cook camp's arguments lack logic.

No it's not, you have left out a lot. Edit: @SAdProZ said it better than me. Your argument is dishonest.

 

[YuriAraujo]

I've talked about camcorders before. (It's my field.) Plenty of frustrated customers to sweep up, and unlike the car, it has a solid connection (video editing) to existing Apple products.

Also, imagine if the time and money sunk into that car had instead been placed into high quality porting of games to the Mac. That would have made actual revenue, instead of the $0 that came of the car.

Build a #&$%$ interface! Ease of use was once the whole point of using a mac. Windows is still somewhat worse, but not enough to be a real selling point.

A big watch aimed at people with mobility and health problems. Limited functions like call for help and control TV. Perhaps a camera so that caretakers can check up on the wearer. This could save lives. (But maybe Apple doesn't want it's prestige associated with grandma?).

A wired+wireless ad hoc network designed to operate on the metropolitan or neighborhood scale. Devices in homes transmit directly to neighbors to form a connection to a few nodes. This could bypass expensive cellular service and be far easier to establish in difficult areas like Africa or Canada.

All of your propositions are things that don’t make money on the level of apple products. it’s hopeful thinking and wishing that a company will make products that you like instead of what makes money for investors.
If you think that the R&D spent on the car won’t be useful for other products you clearly have no idea of how technology works.