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Homy

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Jan 14, 2006
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Another new PC release bites the dust. Another one of those titles mentioned severeal times in discussions across this forum that Mac gamers couldn't play (hence Mac gaming "sucks" and is "dead"), in addition to Redfall, SW Jedi: Survivor, The Last of Us and more.

The game is simply terrible according to almost every reviewer.

Skärmavbild 2023-05-25 kl. 17.52.19.png
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre

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Jun 8, 2022
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Another new PC release bites the dust. Another one of those titles mentioned severeal times in discussions across this forum that Mac gamers couldn't play, in addition to Redfall, SW Jedi: Survivor, The Last of Us and more.

The game is simply terrible according to almost every reviewer.

View attachment 2207537

We get it you hate PC gaming. You've made that very clear from the WWDC Metal 3 thread.

But this has nothing to do with the poor state of PC ports. The game is just bad in general across all platforms. https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-5/the-lord-of-the-rings---gollum
 
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Homy

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jan 14, 2006
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We get it you hate PC gaming. You've made that very clear from the WWDC Metal 3 thread.

But this has nothing to do with bad PC ports. The game is just bad in general across all platforms. https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-5/the-lord-of-the-rings---gollum

You get it wrong apparently, again. Why would I hate PC gamng? On the contrary I'm just debunking some myths about PC gaming made by some Mac gaming "haters". What I dislike is the unnecessary Mac bashing by the same people who claim gaming platforms don't really matter to them since they choose platform after the game they want to play.
 
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russell_314

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2019
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We get it you hate PC gaming. You've made that very clear from the WWDC Metal 3 thread.
I didn't get that from this post but I didn't check out his post history. What I got from this post is people were saying the game was not on macOS but he's pointing out it's not a good game so who cares. Maybe I misunderstood the OP though.

I definitely don't hate Windows PC gaming because most of my gaming is on a Windows PC. I will also support macOS PC games any chance I get just because it's highly under represented. I don't like seeing monopolies and unfortunately Microsoft has a monopoly on PC gaming
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
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So, it's equivalent to the best on Mac. Looks like MacOS Baldur's Gate 3 graphics that's repeated ad nauseam. To be fair, for some game genres it's less about graphics fidelity and more about story. Probably runs better too on PC with 8GB than Mac with 8GB.


It's $37.49 on Epic store (add to cart and checkout to see discount) while Apple would probably charge $59.99 if it was on the Mac app store.

1685032800049.png
 

Homy

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Jan 14, 2006
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I'm missing the connection what does Mac Gaming have anything to do with this game failing?

Didn't you read my first post? The absence of this game and others like Redfall, SW Jedi: Survivor, The Last of Us and more have been mentioned many times before their failed and buggy releases as prime examples and reasons to why Mac gaming is "dead" and "sucks".
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
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Didn't you read my first post?
I did read it. Doesn't make sense to me. You were crowing about how Lord of the Rings is getting low review scores and then you pivoted to the Mac Gaming sector where many games do not exist for the Mac. What am I missing? How does one game getting review bombed has anything to do with available games on a different platform?
 

Homy

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I did read it. Doesn't make sense to me. You were crowing about how Lord of the Rings is getting low review scores and then you pivoted to the Mac Gaming sector where many games do not exist for the Mac. What am I missing? How does one game getting review bombed has anything to do with available games on a different platform?

Well, now you lost me, since I've already answered your question. Once again, these games have been mentioned by Mac "bashers" in this forum as prime examples of PC gaming, titles that Mac gamers don't have and only can dream of playing, games that will never make it to Mac, hence Mac gaming is "dead" and "sucks". As we have seen now time after time these games and bad releases aren't really something to "dream" about and long for and the state of PC gaming "sucks" more than PC partisans want to admit when they're busy talking down Mac gaming and every effort to improve it.
 
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mi7chy

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Oct 24, 2014
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Bad releases like one and done MacOS Resident Evil Village that suffers from Apple ID bug that prevents the game from launching, audio sync, crashing, controller, mouse and keyboard, etc. issues? It's not realistic to wait forever for perfection vs frequent improvement updates like most games.
 

Homy

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OK, we are in agreement. Those games you mentioned are not available for the Mac.


Ok, so you're happy that this game is being received poorly because its not available for the Mac and that was specifically used as a reason why mac gaming sucks.

That seems kind of petty to me


Who cares seriously. Sounds very much like sour grapes
View attachment 2207564

I think you understand my points more than you want to admit but for some reason want to focus on irrelavant details that don't have much to do with my posts and main point. Mentioning "sour grapes" like someone else did once in a similar discussion is a bit childish and irrational. I mean it's all fun and games as long as people can bash Mac gaming but when the tables are turned it gets sour and petty? It's also interesting you use "petty" and "sour grapes" in a discussion in favor of Mac gaming but I can't remember the last time you did the same in discussions with those talking down Mac gaming?

I'm neither happy nor sad because I just present facts about the games and their reception and in the end who cares as you say. At the same time apparently several individuals here care enough to repeat the same arguments year after year. Just look at some of the active discussions in this gaming forum.

It's actually pretty simple. Several titles have been mentioned as good upcoming PC games that Mac gamers should envy and when those games are released I look at how good they actually are and report here for the record. It's just facts debunking the rumors and claims.
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre

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Jun 8, 2022
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Well, now you lost me, since I've already answered your question. Once again, these games have been mentioned by Mac "bashers" in this forum as prime examples of PC gaming, titles that Mac gamers don't have and only can dream of playing, games that will never make it to Mac, hence Mac gaming is "dead" and "sucks". As we have seen now time after time these games and bad releases aren't really something to "dream" about and long for and the state of PC gaming "sucks" more than PC partisans want to admit when they're busy talking down Mac gaming and every effort to improve it.

Being realistic is “Mac bashing” now apparently

Look I love macOS and Apple Silicon, it’s my daily driver for a reason, but the fact of the matter is Mac gaming is talked down for a reason and it’s because of Apple’s attitude towards the industry and actions they’ve done that has made game development on macOS even more of a nightmare.

I want Mac gaming to be a thing so we can lessen our reliance on Windows, but there’s a lot of things that need to change for that to happen. And here you are making a thread about an objectively bad game using it as a “got ya” towards PC gamers
 

dmccloud

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2009
2,990
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Anchorage, AK
I think you understand my points more than you want to admit but for some reason want to focus on irrelavant deatils that don't have much to do with my posts and main point. Mentioning "sour grapes" like someone else did once in a similar discussion is a bit childish and unlogical. I mean it's all fun and games as long as people can bash Mac gaming but when the tables are turned it gets sour and petty? It's also interesting you use "petty" and "sour grapes" in a discussion in favor of Mac gaming but I can't remember the last time you did the same in discussions with those talking down Mac gaming?

I'm neither happy or sad because I just present facts about the games and their reception and in the end who cares as you say. At the same time apparently several individuals here care enough to repeat the same arguments year after year. Just look at some of the active discussions in this gaming forum.

It's actually pretty simple. Several titles have been mentioned as good upcoming PC games that Mac gamers should envy and when those games are released I look at how good they actually are and report here for the record. It's just facts debunking the rumors and claims.

Your entire OP basically makes fun of the LOTR game then segues into a completely unrelated rant about people complaining about Mac gaming. Not every title comes out of the box at 100%, that's just a fact of game development and a side effect of having to support thousands upon thousands of hardware configurations on Windows. But this one game has nothing to do with the state of Mac gaming.

Those reviews are opinions, not facts. It's not uncommon to see people review bomb games for no reason other than they don't like it based just off the game's title, preview trailers, etc. Also, I'd want for a patch or two before actually buying into reviews of new titles, because there are things that will be exposed by the gaming market as a whole that slip through testing. Look at how rough Cyberpunk's launch was and compare that to its current form, a lot of improvements have been made under the hood for that game.
 
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Homy

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Being realistic is “Mac bashing” now apparently

Look I love macOS and Apple Silicon, it’s my daily driver for a reason, but the fact of the matter is Mac gaming is talked down for a reason and it’s because of Apple’s attitude towards the industry and actions they’ve done that has made game development on macOS even more of a nightmare.

I want Mac gaming to be a thing so we can lessen our reliance on Windows, but there’s a lot of things that need to change for that to happen. And here you are making a thread about an objectively bad game using it as a “got ya” towards PC gamers

That is your interpretation. Then you haven't followed all the discussions where people are pretty much everything but realistic, so yes I've seen lots of unrealistic "Mac bashing" and yet every new step in the right direction still meets the same negativity and death wish.

Again this game has been mentioned before as a great upcoming title and now we have the result, just like Redfall and others. Take it as you like. Since when it's a bad thing to provide opposite facts debunking rumors and claims?
 

Homy

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Jan 14, 2006
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Your entire OP basically makes fun of the LOTR game then segues into a completely unrelated rant about people complaining about Mac gaming. Not every title comes out of the box at 100%, that's just a fact of game development and a side effect of having to support thousands upon thousands of hardware configurations on Windows. But this one game has nothing to do with the state of Mac gaming.

Those reviews are opinions, not facts. It's not uncommon to see people review bomb games for no reason other than they don't like it based just off the game's title, preview trailers, etc. Also, I'd want for a patch or two before actually buying into reviews of new titles, because there are things that will be exposed by the gaming market as a whole that slip through testing. Look at how rough Cyberpunk's launch was and compare that to its current form, a lot of improvements have been made under the hood for that game.

Those are not "review bombers", trying to sink the game for no reason. Those are real game reviewers, unless you think Gamespot is fake. You can always buy a copy and write your review here. If it feels "completely unrelated" to you then you haven't completely been following the discussions here and I've already explained my reasons and thinking several times, already from the first sentence.

Who said it has anything to do with the state of Mac gaming? Actually it's funny you mention it because that's what I mean by my "ranting". It's some PC gamers here who always use such games as proof of the "death" and "bad" state of Mac gaming. So this is a factual response.
 

PsykX

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2006
2,437
3,224
Another new PC release bites the dust. Another one of those titles mentioned severeal times in discussions across this forum that Mac gamers couldn't play (hence Mac gaming "sucks" and is "dead"), in addition to Redfall, SW Jedi: Survivor, The Last of Us and more.
Well, in its current state, it's true that Mac gaming sucks.
The AAA titles, I'm not sure I need my whole hand to count them.
Apparently, they want to push gaming for real (for the 23rd time) at WWDC in two weeks. We'll see.

And those GPUs in Apple Silicon, while not exceptional, are great, but wasted. Almost none of the games except for WOW and Resident Evil use it natively.
 
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salamanderjuice

macrumors 6502a
Feb 28, 2020
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555
Another new PC release bites the dust. Another one of tho Pe titles mentioned severeal times in discussions across this forum that Mac gamers couldn't play (hence Mac gaming "sucks" and is "dead"), in addition to Redfall, SW Jedi: Survivor, The Last of Us and more.

The game is simply terrible according to almost every reviewer.

View attachment 2207537
Can you please link to the post where somebody holds up this title as the reason Mac gaming sucks?
 

PsykX

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2006
2,437
3,224
I've heard things are not much better even with Intel i9 and Nvidia 4090.
I'm really happy with my PS5 and my 65-inch OLED TV.
I could stream my PS5 games on my 24-inch iMac if I wanted to.

And PlayStation 6 or 7 will completely be cloud-based I think, so yes my Mac will be able to play every title I own.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,495
11,155
Not too many buy 4090 just for gaming. It's usually a mix of gaming plus 3D rendering, AI/ML, etc. So, that one case is more of an exception if he actually owns one rather than the norm. Usual upgrade path is Mac to console or PC addition. Consoles to PC. Rarely PC, especially with 4090, to console and deal with dynamic resolution/quality downscaling.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,540
26,655
The Misty Mountains
We get it you hate PC gaming. You've made that very clear from the WWDC Metal 3 thread.

But this has nothing to do with the poor state of PC ports. The game is just bad in general across all platforms. https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-5/the-lord-of-the-rings---gollum

You get it wrong apparently, again. Why would I hate PC gamng? On the contrary I'm just debunking some myths about PC gaming made by some Mac gaming "haters". What I dislike is the unnecessary Mac bashing by the same people who claim gaming platforms don't really matter to them since they choose platform after the game they want to play.
No one as far as I can tell no one hates Mac Gaming or PC gaming. Critiques are leveled based on the relative platforms capabilities and relative hardware pricing. If you had talked to me in the 90s I was then working hard to show that Macs were competitive for gaming, but I gained a realization after many examples and comparisons I personally made on hardware I owned, that the way most games were developed and the because Macs were more expensive, they: Macs could never be truly competitive for just gaming. Yet I still own a Mac (see signature) and use it for most of my daily computing, I prefer the MacOS, and at some level it bugs me that I‘m doing work with Unreal Engine on my PC because I already owned it for gaming, and had the graphic card, and 4k monitor, when I decided to jump into creating gaming environments. 🤔
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,072
2,650
Being realistic is “Mac bashing” now apparently
Of course it is (for some). It's not just Apple, but there's a reason Apple among others is called a cult, for which the die-hard fans, often called "fanbois" (not in a negative way) are responsible for.

Time to quote my "favourite" game review again:
Myst was, of course, a game championed by the worst people who existed in the 1990s: Mac owners. Mac owners had a problem. They'd spent a vast amount of money on a machine that had about seven games available for it total, no right mouse button, and no eject button on the floppy drive. They'd been sold such a lemon, and such an expensive lemon, that there was nothing for it but to double-down and pretend it was by far the superior choice. "Well actually it's MUCH better for graphic design work," they'd say, having never done any graphic design work, nor ever intending to. ("And why should I need an eject button when I can drag this icon laboriously across the desktop and drop it on this other icon instead? Or more usually unfold a paperclip and frantically wedge it into this tiny hole on the front of the machine conveniently located where your PC wastes space with a button.") And they'd delude themselves and all those around them that the scant few games they could play were all absolute stone-cold classics. Thus Myst. The Macciest of all Mac games, a shiny veneer plastered across empty nothingness.
Source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/is-myst-still-one-of-the-worst-games-ever
The above described "self deluding" is two fold. It helps to ignore anything that doesn't fit the narrative. It also helps to make people feel better in a bad situation. It's often witnessed in young children, but also in adults despite less frequent. You often see first responders telling people "it's going to be fine" instead of "you're toast and got 5 minutes left". It does work.

You're not going to change those exhibiting the above cited behaviour. You're not going to change the opinion of an anti-vaxxer that claims you're injected with chips, so Bill Gates can take control over you. You're also not going to change someone that claims 5G is mind control by the government or the earth is actually hollow and lizard people live inside. They're convinced and it makes them feel batter, anyone else is a puppet and controlled. And anyone not agreeing with the holy grail of Mac gaming (in this particular case) is "Mac bashing" as per the quote above.

These threads here and other forums are read by people in the gaming industry now and then. We actually have a private discord by now discussing these threads. I know at least two people at Apple that check in occasionally. That does include developers, marketing and psychologists. And in the end, it's really textbook psychology. The behaviour as quoted above is usually from people who
  • Do not work or have any experience in the industry
  • Do not own the "enemy" system they're targeting, only the "worshipped" system
  • Do focus on few negative examples of the system they're targeting
  • Ignore the negative examples of the system they're targeting
  • In the case a previously hyped product for the worshipped system turns out to be a dud (be it buggy, gameplay or performance wise), thing's are turned around and it becomes a small "exception", that is not worth discussing or not even worth mentioning.
We could have thousands of threads about excellent PC and console games. Yet we don't, because those of us who are realistic don't care about promoting every press release, announcement or similar. We know about it and unless we want to discuss gameplay aspects specifically, because we're playing the game, we don't care posting about it. That's what a one-liner on Twitter or Instagram might be for. And those exhibiting the above quoted behaviour surely won't post anything positive about the "enemy".

Furthermore, we could have many threads about Mac games that are bad. It could be bugs, performance, bad gameplay or otherwise. We don't. The worshippers are not going to post anything negative about "their system". And those who are realistic don't think it's worth to open a new thread just to point out flaws. We know there are good and bad games out there, again be it bugs, performance or gameplay... and that's true for any platform, Mac, PC, console or mobile and above that movies, tv series, cars, shoes, really anything. The fact that, looking at absolute numbers instead of percentage, there are so many "negative games" for PC, console and mobile (and that includes iPad and iPhone) is purely based on the sheer amount of titles for that platform. There are a gazillion times more games on PC, consoles and mobile than on Mac.

There is a good side to the worshipping aspect though, at least for psychologists analysing the behaviour and developing strategies to target potential buyers/markets and as a result increasing the worshipping of products with the hope to reach a certain point that it swaps over to other target groups. This isn't unique to games or computer systems, it's found everywhere. Remember when "Bladerunner" came out in the 80s? It was an absolute dud back then. So they analysed the situation and decided to market it to certain target groups (let's call them "sci-fi nerds"), of which most loved the movie and those who didn't, followed along because they didn't want to be the outcasts of an outcast group. Eventually it became widespread enough that a tipping point was reached to "non sci-fi nerds" and since all those people (the original target group) loved it so much, even those who didn't like it agreed that it's a good movie.

Apple are masters of psychological analysis and marketing. They often show incomplete graphs or plots without axis labels, advertising false information. The worshippers will follow and further spread it and many people won't check facts. There was a recent post about how great Apple's non-backward compatibility is and then a statement about an article which referenced an Intel white paper with the claim that Intel drops backward compatibility and they only copy Apple. Obviously that's not true as they didn't read or understand that paper at all as that's not what Intel is doing, but many follow along... in other words, Apple can be happy about this behaviour, it brings in money. But in a way, their role in 2023 has reversed from what they said in "1984" and they're happy about "do not question", "follow blindly" and "obey".

In any case, I think these threads can be positive. The worshippers have something that helps them to feel better, it might even have a positive aspect on mental health (something Apple is heavily investing in). Those of us that are realistic have something to talk about and have fun in our Discords or at events like the upcoming WWDC or maybe dinners afterwards, while not not really taking it too serious. And those of us that are psychologists or analysts have something to explore for new marketing and sales potential.

I'd take Feynman over Freud any day, but think in the end, it's a win-win situation. :)
 
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