MP 7,1 The New COLANDER Mac Pro!

[seek3r]

For how much DRAM in your 3,1? 32GB? @AidenShaw stated that it was a box with 72c/144t and 1.5 TB of DRAM, which is 48x as much DRAM and 48-32GB DIMMS, which is probably 12x as many DIMMs as you have in your system. When stuff breaks on enterprise equipment and it can, no matter how much you seem to research, justify, research more and end up getting budget for, when it does, it's a headache to track down. At least with ECC, you have a chance...it always helps if the DIMM slot has a fault LED next to it, but I digress.

Also, if you're *really* hammering the ram with constant read/writes you're going to hit a lot more errors than in relatively casual use.

 

[frankiee]

Sure, but that - same with 1.5TB of RAM - sound like edge cases a "normal" user would never experience. I also doubt even the most pro of all pros actually needs 1.5Tb of RAM, that sounds more like a tiny fraction of an already tiny segment.

Still, even with that in mind I want to see the "thousands of errors a day". Not happening until something is really wrong with your equipment or enviroment.

Don't get me wrong - I clearly see the benefit of ECC RAM, but I also see some really overexaggerated claims, SCNR to throw in my 2c

 

[ssgbryan]

Whether you can and whether people do are two different things. Most people do not use ECC memory because the cost versus benefit doesn’t make sense for them.

No, most people don't use ECC because they are coming from Intel, which only has than on their Xeons. They don't know what it is or why it is important, because Intel wasn't selling it to them.

Those of us that use Xeons know what it is and why it is important. And it makes moving to AMD easier.

 

[AidenShaw]

Still, even with that in mind I want to see the "thousands of errors a day". Not happening until something is really wrong with your equipment or enviroment.

Nothing is "really wrong" - I just have a DIMM that has a DRAM chip that has (maybe partially) failed.

Exactly why I would never buy a server or workstation without ECC memory.
[doublepost=1559684939][/doublepost]

Still, even with that in mind I want to see the "thousands of errors a day".

I don't think that you (or anyone else on MR) really wants me to post hundreds of megabytes of error messages here.

To condense it, here's a snap of a couple of hours one afternoon:

> findstr /c:"memory read error" small-server-memory-errors.txt | wc -l
       2004

> tail small-server-memory-errors.txt
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran
Apr 03 17:00:50 smallserver kernel: EDAC MC4: 12 CE memory read error on CPU_SrcID#0_Ha#1_Chan#3_DIMM#0 (channel:3 slot:0 page:0x39052eb offset:0xfc0 grain:32 syndrome:0x0 -  OVERFLOW area:DRAM err_code:0001:0093 socket:0 ha:1 channel_mask:8 ran

Note that "CE" in this log means "Corrected Error" - no application saw any error, but the system was logging that the ECC subsystem was correcting errors.

 

[frankiee]

OK, now I am impressed But as you say this is due to a faulty chip, not regular conditions.

 

[seek3r]

OK, now I am impressed But as you say this is due to a faulty chip, not regular conditions.

When you have a lot of ram the likelihood of a faulty chip increases. I've done work on HPC systems in the past, when you have a ton of nodes and each node has a ton of ram the possibility of having a faulty DIMM goes from "maybe" to "likely". ECC saves you from a lot of grief, even if you do eventually end up replacing the DIMM

 

[frankiee]

I absolutely see why this is useful in that case, but this also a different league compared to a personal workstation

 

[AidenShaw]

I absolutely see why this is useful in that case, but this also a different league compared to a personal workstation

My home PC is a Dell Precision Workstation with ECC - exactly for the same reason. If the system gets unstable - I don't even think about the possibility of a sporadic memory error, nor do I need to run memory tests literally for days.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

8 core, 32GB RAM, 580 X and 256GB SSD

Exactly the specs of my Windows PC, except 1TB SSD, for about $1200.

 

[crjackson2134]

Am I correct that ONLY the Apple GPU modules will work?

I see no auxiliary power options for any PCIe cards that may need them.

 

[ssgbryan]

I absolutely see why this is useful in that case, but this also a different league compared to a personal workstation

ECC is a major reason why I have a Mac Pro.

Nothing sucks more than having a memory error mess up a render image that has been cooking for 12 hours.....
[doublepost=1559701841][/doublepost]

Am I correct that ONLY the Apple GPU modules will work?

I see no auxiliary power options for any PCIe cards that may need them.

No, there are 2 8 pin connectors somewhere.

 

[lie2me]

If you are doing video or some sort of graphics production, I understand the pricing.
If you are not, and just wanted expandability with a means for upgrading memory and drives, the new Mac Pro does not make sense at its $6k entry price.
It looks like a nice computer though with loads of power.
I will likely stick with my old 2010 Mac Pro until it dies or is made obsolete by another OS.
I will then look at a Windows or Linux PC and give up on using Macs for the first time since its introduction in 1984.

 

[dlamblin]

A sign of the times, sadly. If you can get away with Windows, I cant recommend enough, after ten years of Mac I built my own PC a few months ago and it's working out great.

Yeah Windows 10 has been great. The Dell hardware I have, not so much. My mac mini is my best Windows machine.

Can I trade in my Quadra 950 for it's 2018 $ equivalent to get this Mac Pro?

Introductory price US$7,200 (equivalent to $12,855 in 2018)
Discontinued October 14, 1995

 

[Beachguy]

Boy, that thing looks ugly in the photos. Would have to see it on a desk though to have a final opinion.

It's going to look great... buried in a rack!

 

[AFITgrad86]

Had to laugh... “oh, and the monitor stand costs a THOUSAND dollars.” Ha.

Now THAT was an "aw ****" moment for Apple ... Methinks there will be some "reconsideration" of that number before the final release ...

 

[Lammers]

No, most people don't use ECC because they are coming from Intel, which only has than on their Xeons. They don't know what it is or why it is important, because Intel wasn't selling it to them.

Those of us that use Xeons know what it is and why it is important. And it makes moving to AMD easier.

And so we’ve come full circle. Why is it only on Xeons? Why wasn’t Intel selling it to them? Because most people don’t need it.

The corollary to your argument is that if ECC RAM were available more broadly then people would use it, but given the price premium I don’t see how that makes sense.

 

[peterdaddison]

$12,000 starting price for computer and monitor, with stand.

I was looking at the invoice for my first fleet of macs. My MacIIx was $14,000. The keyboard was an additional $500 and that didn't include the $1500.00 12" color monitor. It had 4 MB or ram and an 80 MB hard drive. (not GB)

All that power for 6, or 12, thousand just shows how spoiled we were.

oh, and the Mac SEs with 1 MB RAM and 20 MB HDD were $6,000 each.

kwicherbichin

 

[Pressure]

Am I correct that ONLY the Apple GPU modules will work?

I see no auxiliary power options for any PCIe cards that may need them.

There are two 8-pin as well as a single 6-pin power connector available.

 

[eyeCloudGuy]

Six grand for the base model. I don't need that kind of power, but if I did, I probably would have fainted at that point in the presentation...but as I don't work in that realm, maybe that's considered reasonable. I do like the design, though. The very first Mac I ever used was a cheese grater in grad school (2006)...memories...

It will be great for its intended market. Colander is a good description and better than cheese grater.

When I have some spare cash I want to buy a used 2013 Mac Pro and upgrade as i desire. I'm an aspiring creative but need to spend more time on my camera and writing and less time on the gear lust for the new Mac Pro....which is an undoubtedly awesome device for its market.

Would like to see how it will work in the sciences.

Great post there,
Tom
[doublepost=1559765795][/doublepost]

Entry-level SSD capacity is a joke, but then again that's nothing new.

Agreed, 1TB or 2TB would be appropriate for a machine of this type.

Awesome!
Tom

 

[Kubat]

These Intel CPUs may be new, unannounced, but in-their-roadmap models from their Cascade Lake platform with the BGA socket:

https://wccftech.com/intel-xeon-roadmap-leak-10nm-ice-lake-sp-2020-sapphire-rapids-sp-2021/

That link has info about their future XEON roadmap. I was kind of hoping they could have gone for Cooper Lake, as it has the same socket as the Ice Lake generation coming after it, which does support PCIe 4.0.

Regardless, I think it's safe to say Apple has learned its lessons and will hopefully keep this new Mac Pro evolving with a new chipset every 1 or 2 XEON CPU generations from Intel.

Yah I wonder why Apple coudn't go with AMD Threadripper 2990 (or whats next from AMD) - it's got crazy 32 cores and crushes older xeons (eg the 14 or 18-core W-2195 from iMac pro) for fraction of the cost

 

[Trippy Bear]

Not too eager about the proprietary graphic cards once again.

I'm pretty sure you can put in just about any PCIe video card in there, so you don't have to use their own unless you NEED to have that Apple Afterburner accelerator card.

 

[goMac]

I'm pretty sure you can put in just about any PCIe video card in there, so you don't have to use their own unless you NEED to have that Apple Afterburner accelerator card.

The catch is only a MPX card can provide the Thunderbolt ports with a display signal. Only an MPX card can provide Thunderbolt video. Of course, there is nothing stopping you from running an MPX GPU and a normal GPU.

I don't know if something like a third party Thunderbolt card with DP in will work.

Besides this Apple is totally supporting third party video cards in this thing.

 

[vaugha]

I know a surprising no. of people and large corporations that will buy the maxed out mac pro. My guess on the price: 45g - 50g after tax in Canadian dollars. W/ the pro display xdr and the high-tech patented stand, you're looking at 51g - 56g. Who's buying the maxed out mac pros? Jeez....I could buy a nice lexus for that kinda money and drive it for 5 years. In 5 years, the 45g mac pro will become outdated.

 

[scottrichardson]

Can you fill me in what you are doing for a living that it would pay for itself within 2 months? A 20k machine? Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I can't imagine that in any job an investment like this would boost your productivity so much that you would make 10k more than before per month... If so, I truly want two switch profession.

Ahah I'm a web designer, front-end/back-end developer and photographer. I run my own small studio. Sorry my message was a little ambiguous. It would take me two months of working to 'pay' for this machine. It would only provide a modest improvement to my productivity, much like me upgrading from a Mazda to a Porsche would upgrade my driving ability. I never said I need one, but I most certainly want one. And given I don't really spend my money on anything else, Apple goodies have become my hobby/interest/passion.

 

[ekwipt]

The catch is only a MPX card can provide the Thunderbolt ports with a display signal. Only an MPX card can provide Thunderbolt video. Of course, there is nothing stopping you from running an MPX GPU and a normal GPU.

I don't know if something like a third party Thunderbolt card with DP in will work.

Besides this Apple is totally supporting third party video cards in this thing.

Can you not go from Display port out into one of the Thunderbolt 3 connections and then back out of one of the other Thunderbolt 3 ports? A bit of muck about but similar to what you do on Gigabyte motherboards?