Thoughts on Stage Manager?

[madat42]

Very cool and useful when a keyboard is connected. Thank you for the tip!

Discovered this on accident but holding down the 🌐 or CMD key will give you context system, Stage Mgr, and app-specific keyboard shortcuts.

 

[Works4Me]

I’ll just add to this discussion and say that I enjoy stage manager on my iPad Pro 12.9 and using an external monitor with it or by itself, but of course there’s room for improvement I still think one of the dumbest features is sound defaulting to the monitor, which may or may not have speakers, and if it does have speakers, they might not be as good as the ones in the iPad. Just stupid that they did this.

 

[madat42]

I’ll just add to this discussion and say that I enjoy stage manager on my iPad Pro 12.9 and using an external monitor with it or by itself, but of course there’s room for improvement I still think one of the dumbest features is sound defaulting to the monitor, which may or may not have speakers, and if it does have speakers, they might not be as good as the ones in the iPad. Just stupid that they did this.

Funny I just discovered this as well and couldn’t figure out to lower the volume. There was an iPadOS control to mute but not control the volume?! I would have thought that Apple had these kind of things already refined and waiting in the wings once they decided to put the M1/M2 in the pro models.

 

[cwosigns]

I wish there was an option to automatically disable stage manager when not connected to a keyboard. When my iPad Pro is on the MKB, I want Stage Manager to be on. When I take it off to use it as a ”tablet” I want it to disable stage manager so that it is more of a traditional iPad.

 

[Ludatyk]

I’m hoping Apple allows Recent Windows area scrollable… similar to how they introduced SlideOver and we was later able to multitask from that feature.

 

[martens]

The more I use it, the more I like it.

It's nice being able to overlay things instead of splitting.

For example, I'm trying to learn jazz guitar, and have the 'printed' material full screen, with the accompanying video in a small square walking through each short exercise, and I can just move that window when it is on top of the next one on the page, then advance to the next page, etc. I could do this with Split View or Slide Over, but this seems less crude.

And as I have said on this thread or another one, I like being able to re-size reading apps (Kindle, Apple Books) so they have a more comfortable width and thus line of text length (without resorting to 2 columns, which I don't like nearly as much).

 

[Royksöpp]

It definitely feels smoother in 16.3. I haven’t noticed any frame drops or lag like I did previously.

 

[bcortens]

The more I use it, the more I like it.

It's nice being able to overlay things instead of splitting.

For example, I'm trying to learn jazz guitar, and have the 'printed' material full screen, with the accompanying video in a small square walking through each short exercise, and I can just move that window when it is on top of the next one on the page, then advance to the next page, etc. I could do this with Split View or Slide Over, but this seems less crude.

And as I have said on this thread or another one, I like being able to re-size reading apps (Kindle, Apple Books) so they have a more comfortable width and thus line of text length (without resorting to 2 columns, which I don't like nearly as much).

The more I use it the more I hate it, not because I dislike resizable overlapping windows, that part is fantastic.
What I hate is the actual window management aspect. Dragging and dropping windows in iPadOS15 was smooth and easy. In iPadOS16 I cannot easily move windows between stages because the multitasking switcher doesn't show windows grouped by stage. It also doesn't do any sort of Expose like thing where you can see all windows in each stage so you can grab them and move them. This should be easy though! With only 4 windows in each stage it should be easy to spread them out when in the multitasking switcher so that they can be dragged between stages.

Working within a stage is pretty good, it should have something like Expose (since we aren't using the edges for Slide-over anymore it could be a left or right swipe) but trying to work with multiple windows across multiple stages is really challenging.

 

[bcortens]

I’m hoping Apple allows Recent Windows area scrollable… similar to how they introduced SlideOver and we was later able to multitask from that feature.

I don't, the recent app area is a poor substitute for fixing the window manager.

 

[Isamilis]

The more I use it the more I hate it, not because I dislike resizable overlapping windows, that part is fantastic.
What I hate is the actual window management aspect. Dragging and dropping windows in iPadOS15 was smooth and easy. In iPadOS16 I cannot easily move windows between stages because the multitasking switcher doesn't show windows grouped by stage. It also doesn't do any sort of Expose like thing where you can see all windows in each stage so you can grab them and move them. This should be easy though! With only 4 windows in each stage it should be easy to spread them out when in the multitasking switcher so that they can be dragged between stages.

Working within a stage is pretty good, it should have something like Expose (since we aren't using the edges for Slide-over anymore it could be a left or right swipe) but trying to work with multiple windows across multiple stages is really challenging.

I tried to familiarize myself using stage manager on iPP 11 for couple of weeks. I found its best is on external monitor with large display or probably 12.9” iPad. In 11” iPad, the front window is too small and the layout has lot of unused empty space.

 

[bcortens]

I tried to familiarize myself using stage manager on iPP 11 for couple of weeks. I found its best is on external monitor with large display or probably 12.9” iPad. In 11” iPad, the front window is too small and the layout has lot of unused empty space.

I agree that the design, as currently created, works better on a larger screen, but I love having 2 windows at 2/3 width, one on each side, on my 11" iPad Pro. I don't think the screen is too small for them to have done a better job though, with a bit of better design it could work just as well on the 11".

 

[Ludatyk]

I don't, the recent app area is a poor substitute for fixing the window manager.

Lol, tbf... you don’t like the concept of Stage Manager to begin with.

In iPadOS16 I cannot easily move windows between stages because the multitasking switcher doesn't show windows grouped by stage. It also doesn't do any sort of Expose like thing where you can see all windows in each stage so you can grab them and move them. This should be easy though! With only 4 windows in each stage it should be easy to spread them out when in the multitasking switcher so that they can be dragged between stages.

I believe you want windows to act as pre-existing multitasking, but with Stage Manager … I believe the best way to interact with it is using the recent windows area (right side), not App Expose as you call it multitasking switcher.

With pre-existing multitasking, you use the App Expose and can move windows around SplitView or SlideOver… but Stage Manager is a different environment. And I think you are exaggerating about not being able to move windows around easily.

I have no trouble at all moving windows from stage to stage.

 

[bcortens]

Lol, tbf... you don’t like the concept of Stage Manager to begin with.


I believe you want windows to act as pre-existing multitasking, but with Stage Manager … I believe the best way to interact with it is using the recent windows area (right side), not App Expose as you call it multitasking switcher.

With pre-existing multitasking, you use the App Expose and can move windows around SplitView or SlideOver… but Stage Manager is a different environment. And I think you are exaggerating about not being able to move windows around easily.

I have no trouble at all moving windows from stage to stage.

I've come around on stage manger a bit. I use it more than I used to but I generally use groups of two apps (rather than 4 apps) so that I can toggle stage manager off when I need to rearrange windows so that I can use drag and drop and then toggle it back on when I am done moving my windows.

I think you are too forgiving of giving up the ability to drag and drop from the existing multitasking switcher (what you're calling App Expose). I think App Expose is a bad description though because it's not just for apps, it's a powerful window manager. You don't drag individual apps around but individual windows for each app. I have multiple Safari windows and I can use the old multitasking viewer to drag them around very easily, I don't move the whole app. Stage Manager's version is far more like an App Expose because it stacks windows from the same app.

Stage manager is very much a first generation product that needs updates to fix in some of the missing and less than optimal features. We couldn't drag and drop windows around in the old multitasking switcher till iPadOS15 so it's not unreasonable to expect that Stage Manager will eventually get drag and drop support as well.

Drag and drop window management is how my brain works, I use it on the Mac and I use it on the iPad. Stage manager doesn't support it so I have to toggle it on and off when I need to move a window so that I can still use drag and drop of my windows.

Edit: The old style method of seeing all windows for a current app (the shelf I think it was called) was also really nice because it was a very fast way of seeing your windows and moving one into the current space/stage/group without having to go through the rigamarole of finding the app icon in the app drawer or dock and then long pressing and then show all windows.

Edit2: Recent windows is a compromise for getting to other windows. I have to ask, what is actually great about the current version of the multitasking switcher in stage manager? It is bad at letting you move between stages because it doesn't actually group apps by stage. It is bad at picking individual windows because if you have more than 2 windows in a 'fullscreen' stage you can't actually get the the ones at the bottom of the stack. It is bad at providing context because windows aren't grouped by stage so I don't know where I am going when I select a window. It is bad at multitasking because it doesn't support drag and drop. This view is pretty useless for most things right now. Sure you can make stage manager work for you but you are doing so in a pretty limited way.

 

[Ludatyk]

I think you are too forgiving of giving up the ability to drag and drop from the existing multitasking switcher (what you're calling App Expose). I think App Expose is a bad description though because it's not just for apps, it's a powerful window manager. You don't drag individual apps around but individual windows for each app. I have multiple Safari windows and I can use the old multitasking viewer to drag them around very easily, I don't move the whole app. Stage Manager's version is far more like an App Expose because it stacks windows from the same app.

But that’s what Apple calls the multitasking switcher for iPadOS.

Stage manager is very much a first generation product that needs updates to fix in some of the missing and less than optimal features. We couldn't drag and drop windows around in the old multitasking switcher till iPadOS15 so it's not unreasonable to expect that Stage Manager will eventually get drag and drop support as well.

I’m fully aware Stage Manager needs updates, but it’s not as horrible as you make it out to be… that’s my only point. And I’m confused… Stage Manager doesn’t have drag and drop support? That’s how a user move windows to different stages.

As I stated before... Stage Manager is a different environment compared to pre-existing multitasking because in Stage Manager you can drag and drop with the recent windows feature off to the side. However, in pre-existing multitasking... user will use drag and drop in the App Expose.

I think the problem you are facing is you are reluctant to adjust to Stage Manager and if that's the case... stay with pre-existing multitasking, its still a viable option for you.

 

[bcortens]

But that’s what Apple calls the multitasking switcher for iPadOS.


I’m fully aware Stage Manager needs updates, but it’s not as horrible as you make it out to be… that’s my only point. And I’m confused… Stage Manager doesn’t have drag and drop support? That’s how a user move windows to different stages.

As I stated before... Stage Manager is a different environment compared to pre-existing multitasking because in Stage Manager you can drag and drop with the recent windows feature off to the side. However, in pre-existing multitasking... user will use drag and drop in the App Expose.

I think the problem you are facing is you are reluctant to adjust to Stage Manager and if that's the case... stay with pre-existing multitasking, it’s still a viable option for you.

It is a different environment, but that doesn’t mean it is a better one. The multitasking switcher with stage manager enabled isn’t good. It doesn’t do anything useful or as well as the old switcher. The old switcher is fully compatible with the stage manager concept. All you have to do is group apps by stage and add in drag and drop and boom, it makes that view useful again. There is no clear intent or design vision behind the current stage manager switcher. Stacking windows with no way of getting at items at different points in the stack is bad. It was bad when they did in macOS with Lion but at least then you could spread them out, stage manager doesn’t even let you do that.

Look I said stage manager has useful features and I am liking it more and more when I don’t have to deal with its edge cases. Window management isn’t great in stage manager. It violates principles of visibility, understandability, and coherency. It doesn’t do a good job, and not just because I don’t want to use recent apps, if an app isn’t in recents then aspects of moving windows between stages are slower than with the old system.

Recent apps is kind of broken in that it is easy to grab an app from it into the current stage but you can also accidentally break up a stage with no way to recreate it from the recent apps switcher. Ex. I accidentally pulled notes out of a stage and then couldn’t put it back. Show all windows for an app is slower and more disruptive than the shelf that used to appear. Recent apps is actually too small for the touch targets to support easy drag and drop of 4 windows too.

There are so many cases that show how poor some of these decisions are.

Stage manager works well with only a few app windows and only a few stages. If you try and use it to actually manage more than a handful of windows it breaks.

 

[Ludatyk]

It is a different environment, but that doesn’t mean it is a better one.

Well, it’s definitely better for me. I prefer Stage Manager to the pre-existing multitasking.

The multitasking switcher with stage manager enabled isn’t good. It doesn’t do anything useful or as well as the old switcher. The old switcher is fully compatible with the stage manager concept.

When using Stage Manager the user is meant to use recent windows feature off to the side instead of App Expose (multitasking switcher) when multitasking. And yes, you can activate App Expose by swiping up with Stage Manager… but the drag and drop feature does not work.

That’s why its best to utilize recent windows when multitasking.

There are so many cases that show how poor some of these decisions are.

Stage manager works well with only a few app windows and only a few stages. If you try and use it to actually manage more than a handful of windows it breaks.

I throughly enjoyed when Stage Manager was announced… I’ve been using it since its been released. It started off buggy and had few crashes during the beta stages, but now it’s been smooth for the most part.

The issues you are facing now… I haven’t encountered. Dragging and moving windows from stage to another stage has been a breeze for me.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

Things that need ironed out, and changes that I hope come soon:

1. As others have mentioned: Selecting audio output! I have a monitor in our guest room that doesn’t have speakers. It’s annoying that I can’t use the amazing built in iPad Pro speakers, which are better than most monitor speakers to begin with.

2. There’s a super annoying glitch when moving a window around that zips your window into the left side tray. Then you have to move it back into the “stage.” Every time it happens it makes me wonder why I am not just using a Mac.

3. When using Stage Manager on an external monitor with the Side Tray turned off, LET ME USE THE SPACE ON THE LEFT!!!! It will not allow you to move a window into the area that the side tray lives, unless you go full wide view on the windowed app. It is senseless to me that this hasn’t been corrected. You can have 4 windows open, and unless you arrange one of them in full wide mode, you will always have 10% of your screen on the left unoccupied. Why offer the option to turn off side tray if you can’t use the space anyway?

4. A “title bar” (the top part of the window where the 3 dots is) that would span across the entire top of the window, offering a clear indication of where you need to click/touch to move the window around would be nice.

My Love/Hate relationship continues. Love that it exists, it’s super ambitious and when it works, it’s useful! I keep it turned on! But I still hate how quirky it is. I dislike how even though a mouse and keyboard is a requirement to use stage manager on an external monitor, the UI is still built around mimicking touch controls, even though I’m not using touch controls! Would really love to see Apple embrace those of us who want to use the iPad Pro primarily with mouse and keyboard, and offer more variance between using touch controls vs. mouse and keyboard.

 

[Isamilis]

Things that need ironed out, and changes that I hope come soon:

1. As others have mentioned: Selecting audio output! I have a monitor in our guest room that doesn’t have speakers. It’s annoying that I can’t use the amazing built in iPad Pro speakers, which are better than most monitor speakers to begin with.

2. There’s a super annoying glitch when moving a window around that zips your window into the left side tray. Then you have to move it back into the “stage.” Every time it happens it makes me wonder why I am not just using a Mac.

3. When using Stage Manager on an external monitor with the Side Tray turned off, LET ME USE THE SPACE ON THE LEFT!!!! It will not allow you to move a window into the area that the side tray lives, unless you go full wide view on the windowed app. It is senseless to me that this hasn’t been corrected. You can have 4 windows open, and unless you arrange one of them in full wide mode, you will always have 10% of your screen on the left unoccupied. Why offer the option to turn off side tray if you can’t use the space anyway?

4. A “title bar” (the top part of the window where the 3 dots is) that would span across the entire top of the window, offering a clear indication of where you need to click/touch to move the window around would be nice.

My Love/Hate relationship continues. Love that it exists, it’s super ambitious and when it works, it’s useful! I keep it turned on! But I still hate how quirky it is. I dislike how even though a mouse and keyboard is a requirement to use stage manager on an external monitor, the UI is still built around mimicking touch controls, even though I’m not using touch controls! Would really love to see Apple embrace those of us who want to use the iPad Pro primarily with mouse and keyboard, and offer more variance between using touch controls vs. mouse and keyboard.

1. It happened when connecting to external display, isn’t it?
2. You can add application into the existing deck / window using the three dots. It will group the new one to the existing

I am quite satisfied with stage manager in iPadOS 16.3. No bugs I’ve been encountered so far. It’s pretty smooth and didn’t notice any impact to battery. I use it most of the time, but I rarely connect the iPad to external display.

 

[Hyloba]

I was very pissed when my 2020 ipad pro wasn’t getting stage manager, even though I only got the device a year before stage manager was announced. I was so pissed I sold it, because I thought I got a future proof tablet that would only become better in time towards a perfect device that can replace my laptop.

I recently caved in and got an m1 ipad pro, most looking forward to stage manager. It’s… ok. It can make your workflow more efficient. But I was especially looking forward to the external monitor support, until I tried it. There is no way to play music from your tablet when it is docked. This makes absolutely no sense, because you have to have your ipad facing you anyway. You can’t use it in “clamshell” mode like a macbook, otherwise it would be more understandable the ipad is locked out of its speakers.

In the end, it’s still a lot of years off till it’s gonna get good, or better, so I will probably return the device.

 

[bondr006]

I was very pissed when my 2020 ipad pro wasn’t getting stage manager, even though I only got the device a year before stage manager was announced. I was so pissed I sold it, because I thought I got a future proof tablet that would only become better in time towards a perfect device that can replace my laptop.

I recently caved in and got an m1 ipad pro, most looking forward to stage manager. It’s… ok. It can make your workflow more efficient. But I was especially looking forward to the external monitor support, until I tried it. There is no way to play music from your tablet when it is docked. This makes absolutely no sense, because you have to have your ipad facing you anyway. You can’t use it in “clamshell” mode like a macbook, otherwise it would be more understandable the ipad is locked out of its speakers.

In the end, it’s still a lot of years off till it’s gonna get good, or better, so I will probably return the device.

I too would like some sound settings that give us the ability to set where the sound goes to, but in the mean time there are a few workarounds. My monitor has audio out/headphone jack on the back which lets me send the sound to my stereo desktop system. Bluetooth speakers also work. If you are using a USB C hub, some of them have an audio out that can do the same as my first workaround. And last, Airpods work. I hope Apple gives us some sound settings soon. After waiting all the years for full external monitor support, I am pretty happy with Stage Manager. It will mature and get better over time, just like any software.

Also a workaround for the clamshell mode. Just use a black photo in the photo's app and full screen it.

 

[Gherkin]

I wish SM would remember the size of my windows. Maybe I’m weird, but I like to keep most apps at the “one notch below full screen” size. Seems like SM is always forgetting and forcing me back into full screen.

 

[floral]

I’m curious what everyone’s thoughts on Stage Manager are so far? I am using a 5th gen iPad Air, and there’s a part of me that wants to love it. When it works well, it’s great. I like the way it brings to front the app you‘re working in, while the others gently fall to the background (but remain running). On my Air, I find that three apps is the sweet spot. Four apps seems a little crowded, but I am looking forward to external display support where I think four apps will be great on my 27” monitor. An aspect of Stage Manager that is really frustrating though, is that sometimes it resizes my apps every time I leave them. It wasn’t doing that for me this morning, but now it seems to be. I don’t know if this is a bug that sporadically occurs or if Apple intends for this, but either way I hope that Apple fixes and removes that.

I guess I’d give it a 3.5/5 stars as it is right now. How about everyone else? What are your thoughts, and what would you rate it?

I really appreciate it. I don't find myself using it often, but when I do, it does everything I need it to and a little more. It is really pretty great. It could be a bit better (mainly more freely resizable windows) but I like what it is so far.

 

[darngooddesign]

I’m hoping Apple allows Recent Windows area scrollable… similar to how they introduced SlideOver and we was later able to multitask from that feature.

That would end up duplicating the old swipe up gesture Multitask view. If Apple does make that area all open apps, instead of just four recent Stages, they may limit the old swipe up view to non-StageManager and this would be the Stage Manager functionality. SM is going to evolve over time, just like Split Screen did so Iguess we should keep submitting feedback.

 

[darngooddesign]

I wish SM would remember the size of my windows. Maybe I’m weird, but I like to keep most apps at the “one notch below full screen” size. Seems like SM is always forgetting and forcing me back into full screen.

I haven’t noticed this on my 13” M1. I even tried turning off the Dock but even when I force quit and opened Settings and Safari they stayed at the previous window size.

 

[Ludatyk]

That would end up duplicating the old swipe up gesture Multitask view. If Apple does make that area all open apps, instead of just four recent Stages, they may limit the old swipe up view to non-StageManager and this would be the Stage Manager functionality. SM is going to evolve over time, just like Split Screen did so Iguess we should keep submitting feedback.

Multitasking view? App Exposé, right?

IMO, I think the App Exposé (Multitasking view) is not necessarily useful when using Stage Manager.. there’s no way to move apps around in App Exposé when SM is enabled. That’s why I brought up the idea to have that area scrollable. If anything, that’s how users multitasking in SM.

When SM is disabled, App Exposé can be used to create SplitView apps.. manage SlideOver apps. But moving around apps in App Exposé is non-existent when SM is enabled.